There's no such thing as PTSD

[jclalor 12]

Don't just take my word for it, it's in the bible.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsydbBedzFs&feature=youtube_gdata

[Andy9o8 0]

It's easy to dismiss these guys as out-of-touch, snake-handling douches. I'd usually be among the first, I'm sure.

But re-read what he says, squint a little between the lines of his verbiage, and then consider: what do people usually say to a relative or close friend who comes back from combat suffering trauma and guilt, to console them? Probably that they shouldn't feel guilt because they were doing their duty to their country, protecting their families and acting heroically in the face of mortal hazard. Now, that's not a perfect analogy to what these guys said using their bible-thumping rhetoric, but - nitpicking and semantics aside - the basic "therapeutic" approach, and underlying psychology, is pretty similar, if not the same - just a matter of delivery.

[ryoder 1,390]

OK, I see your point, but when I hear:

"Hey! You! You have PTSD? Knock it off. Just stop it. Now."

That makes me think of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow0lr63y4Mw

Also, you don't need to be in battle to get PTSD; First responders can get it too.
So it isn't just about the guilt of killing: http://www.npr.org/2010/12/30/132476507/first-responders-rescuers-face-ptsd-struggles

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[jclalor 12]

Andy9o8

It's easy to dismiss these guys as out-of-touch, snake-handling douches. I'd usually be among the first, I'm sure.

But re-read what he says, squint a little between the lines of his verbiage, and then consider: what do people usually say to a relative or close friend who comes back from combat suffering trauma and guilt, to console them? Probably that they shouldn't feel guilt because they were doing their duty to their country, protecting their families and acting heroically in the face of mortal hazard. Now, that's not a perfect analogy to what these guys said using their bible-thumping rhetoric, but - nitpicking and semantics aside - the basic "therapeutic" approach, and underlying psychology, is pretty similar, if not the same - just a matter of delivery.

I think there is a lot more to PTSD than a feeling of guilt. I think that may me a small part of it, but the experience of living through something truly horrifying is the main component. It sounds to me as if Copeland is also suggesting that if the war is "Just" than any conduct during the war is justified and not feel any guilt. although it's difficult to imagine what would constitute a war-crime in the OT.

I think Copeland is trying to again dismiss a complex medical/science issue with a Biblical answer. He also the nut who dismissed vaccines for true believers. Those who are unlucky enough to subscribe to his BS, will now blame themselves instead of seeking medical help.

[RonD1120 58]

First, stop trying to make the Bible a tech manual. It is a love letter, when you know how to read it.

Second, Kenneth Copeland was trained by Kenneth Hagin and Oral Roberts. They all have made fortunes selling the faith message. Contrary to popular belief, Christ did not come to make money.

Third, if you are really interested in the application of faith for PTSD I suggest reading or, more specifically contacting, the Reverend John L. Steer. He is not in it for the money. He simply does not want to "let a wounded soldier die."

http://www.angelfire.com/fl4/jlsteer/lvwd.html

BTW, when I was with Point Man Ministries, 1985-92, we used Christian Scripture not Hebrew.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[devildog 0]

jclalor

Don't just take my word for it, it's in the bible.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsydbBedzFs&feature=youtube_gdata

No, it's a wacked out promise given by a hack. Pretty sure "PTSD" doesn't appear anywhere in the Greek or Hebrew, and I'll go out on a limb and say its not mentioned in the English translations either :)

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[jclalor 12]

devildog

***Don't just take my word for it, it's in the bible.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsydbBedzFs&feature=youtube_gdata

No, it's a wacked out promise given by a hack. Pretty sure "PTSD" doesn't appear anywhere in the Greek or Hebrew, and I'll go out on a limb and say its not mentioned in the English translations either :)

I was being just a tiny bit facetious.

[quade 3]

RonD1120

It is a love letter, when you know how to read it.

Love letters do not require special knowledge to understand.

Being thrown out of the garden of eden is not a love letter.
God destroying the earth in a flood is not a love letter.
The ten commandments are not a love letter.
God fucking with Job is not a love letter.

You can go through just about ever story in the bible . . . I'm not seeing a love letter at all.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[shropshire 0]

RonD1120

.... when you know how to read it.

If you need 'special powers' on how to read a message then the message is poorly presented and open to interpretation (or as we call it these more enlightened days .. Spin! which is exactly what has been happening for centuries).

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[lawrocket 3]

One doesn't need to be a Bible thumper to fail to understand PTSD. Check out the general public's lack of understanding of PTSD for comparison.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[flygirl1220 0]

ryoder

Also, you don't need to be in battle to get PTSD; First responders can get it too.
So it isn't just about the guilt of killing: http://www.npr.org/2010/12/30/132476507/first-responders-rescuers-face-ptsd-struggles

Thank you for attaching this.

I have explained my job to people in the past as the stuff nightmares and horror movies are made of. It gets pushed back and not properly delt with. Because its what we do, its part of the job.

[D22369 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pHNkOQCIzk


sorry, couldn't resist

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[quade 3]

I see your YouTube video and raise you...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TytGOeiW0aE

This is mankind's true relationship with "gods."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[D22369 0]

LMAO!!!

how the hell did you find that?!!



Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

D22369

LMAO!!!

how the hell did you find that?!!



Roy

You've never heard of Tom Lehrer?

I learned to love parody and comedy at a young age. Tom Lehrer, Stan Freeburg, Allan Sherman and so many others.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[RonD1120 58]

quade

. . . I'm not seeing a love letter at all.

I completely understand why you would not.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[quade 3]

RonD1120

I completely understand why you would not.

I'm sure that's what you believe. I have no reason to doubt you believe you understand my position regardless of how impossible that actually is. The truth is you do not understand.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[RonD1120 58]

quade

***I completely understand why you would not.

I'm sure that's what you believe. I have no reason to doubt you believe you understand my position regardless of how impossible that actually is. The truth is you do not understand.

Do you care to take the time to enlighten me?

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[quade 3]

Quote

Do you care to take the time to enlighten me?

Perhaps if one day we met somewhere, had some drinks and could tell each other our sad life stories. However, on an open forum on the internet I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Especially when you make claims about "understanding" people's opinions when you really have no idea. You have no special knowledge of people and motivations you've never met regardless of you being some sort of counselor. Stop trying. It's as embarrassing to watch as seeing some poor sap getting approached by Scientologists.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[RonD1120 58]

quade

Quote

Do you care to take the time to enlighten me?

Perhaps if one day we met somewhere, had some drinks and could tell each other our sad life stories. However, on an open forum on the internet I think you're barking up the wrong tree. Especially when you make claims about "understanding" people's opinions when you really have no idea. You have no special knowledge of people and motivations you've never met regardless of you being some sort of counselor. Stop trying. It's as embarrassing to watch as seeing some poor sap getting approached by Scientologists.

I understand.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[quade 3]

I believe you believe you do, but I do not believe you do.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[BIGUN 1,062]

The worst four letters combined in the alphabet.

Now declared and labeled as a disability... people will live to that label to keep getting their checks.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[D22369 0]

its nothing new, been around a long time - once it was called shell shock, battle exaustion and other names.

there is a reason that those with it commit suicide at a high rate and anybody who hasn't gone through what they have have no right to judge.

I am pretty sure everyone who truly suffers from it would give up their disability checks to be free from it.

I receive a military disability check each month but not for ptsd, I would immediately give it up to have my knee back.

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[RonD1120 58]

BIGUN

The worst four letters combined in the alphabet.

Now declared and labeled as a disability... people will live to that label to keep getting their checks.

There is a lot of truth in your statement. I have met some vets who do not know how to function effectively since combat. They deserve all the help we can provide.

The DoD publishes monthly suicide data for active duty/active reserve/national guard Army. The other branches do not publish such data. We are averaging around 13-20 per month. That is tragic.

On the other hand, I have met some vets that have played the system to obtain 100% disability. They have indeed learned how to present and maintain the symptoms of PTSD.

This dishonesty is also true for mental illness and substance use disorder with dual diagnosis. Back in the 70's it was called living on funny money.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Stumpy 256]

RonD1120

The DoD publishes monthly suicide data for active duty/active reserve/national guard Army. The other branches do not publish such data. We are averaging around 13-20 per month. That is tragic.

Absolutely that's tragic - same as any suicide. I'm curious though - is there any data as to how that relates to the population as a whole? I would guess that its much higher, but its only a guess.

Never try to eat more than you can lift