It's curtains for the new healthcare plan

[kallend 1,623]

lawrocket

******It;s fairly obvious that Bill's saying Republicans are all for massive government intervention in healthcare when a Republican is in the White House, and dead set against it when there's a Democrat there.

Or in a governor's office. The Heritage Foundation is a perfect example.

That's the funny thing about the federal versus state government and the Constitution. There are limits placed by the Constitution as to what the federal government can do.



Chief Justice Roberts writes for the court that ACA is constitutional.

Where did you go to law school? You should demand your money back.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[davjohns 1]

To the original topic:

Can anyone (without using google) cite a government agency, program, etc that was ever closed because it didn't work as intended, was outdated, cost too much, etc?

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Andy9o8 0]

davjohns

To the original topic:

Can anyone (without using google) cite a government agency, program, etc that was ever closed because it didn't work as intended, was outdated, cost too much, etc?

The horse cavalry. You know, with real horsies.

[Channman 2]

Obamacare Will Be Repealed Well in Advance of the 2014 Mid-Term Elections.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevenhayward/2013/11/11/obamacare-will-be-repealed-well-in-advance-of-the-2014-elections/

We will wait and see...but democrats are having to scramble and make up a new LIE...and explain how it wasn't their fault this damn mess occurred...it was because the Republican didn't offer a better alternative, yes that's it...the republicans caused them to vote YES when they really deep down inside wanted to vote NO.

[davjohns 1]

Andy9o8

***To the original topic:

Can anyone (without using google) cite a government agency, program, etc that was ever closed because it didn't work as intended, was outdated, cost too much, etc?

The horse cavalry. You know, with real horsies.

No points for you, Andy. The US Army doesn't count as the US Government. The realities of combat force changes in the military that the government is too removed from. And while I am not familiar with subsidies for horse breeders, we still provide subsidies for wool farmers because their wool was once used for military uniforms. We provide subsidies to bee farmers because their wax was once used to waterproof ammunition. Even though the military changed with circumstances, government programs march on blindly.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[skydiver30960 0]

davjohns

Can anyone (without using google) cite a government agency, program, etc that was ever closed because it didn't work as intended, was outdated, cost too much, etc?

AND where, once canceled, the money taken from the people to run said program was returned to the people?

BWAHAAHAAHAHAHAH! I will hold my breath.

Elvisio "the beatings will continue" Rodriguez

[lawrocket 3]

The Army still has a Veterinary Corps. They inspect Army chow. No, I'm not kidding.

But horses are like P-51s. Horses got phased out, but Cavalry remains. I think in the grand scheme, we've never gotten rid of a cabinet department. We've reorganized them. The closest is the US Postal Service, which is "quasi governmental." The War Department is the Department of Defense.

We especially are lousy at getting rid of those things that are really expensive and don't work. Like welfare: doesn't appear to fight poverty. Doesn't appear to end poverty. Indeed, it looks like it encourages and institutionalizes poverty. So they want to do more of it.

The WPA actually ended. But that was because WW2 provided a dearth of labor and labor unions hated the WPA.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[normiss 622]

We are talking about a gooberment that STILL believes in a War on Drugs

Failed gloriously in the states, let's try it somewhere else now!

[quade 3]

davjohns

To the original topic:

Can anyone (without using google) cite a government agency, program, etc that was ever closed because it didn't work as intended, was outdated, cost too much, etc?

Pony Express. Far too easy.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[normiss 622]

government agency?

[weekender 0]

quade

***To the original topic:

Can anyone (without using google) cite a government agency, program, etc that was ever closed because it didn't work as intended, was outdated, cost too much, etc?

Pony Express. Far too easy.

i believe that was a private enterprise. it was put out of business by the telegraph. another private enterprise.

or were you kidding? i cannot tell if your comment was meant to be humorous or snarky.

"The point is, I'm weird, but I never felt weird."
John Frusciante

[DaVinci 0]

kallend

*********It;s fairly obvious that Bill's saying Republicans are all for massive government intervention in healthcare when a Republican is in the White House, and dead set against it when there's a Democrat there.

Or in a governor's office. The Heritage Foundation is a perfect example.

That's the funny thing about the federal versus state government and the Constitution. There are limits placed by the Constitution as to what the federal government can do.



Chief Justice Roberts writes for the court that ACA is constitutional.

Where did you go to law school? You should demand your money back.

Wrong. The ruling was only about the individual mandate, not the ACA as a whole. And it FAILED as a commerce clause issue and was only upheld as a TAX.

You really need to read more than the headlines.

[DaVinci 0]

quade

***To the original topic:

Can anyone (without using google) cite a government agency, program, etc that was ever closed because it didn't work as intended, was outdated, cost too much, etc?

Pony Express. Far too easy.

Fail. The pony express was a private company.

"William Russell, Alexander Majors and William Waddell were the three founders of the Pony Express and were already in the freighting business in the late 1850s with more than 4,000 men, 3,500 wagons and some 40,000 oxen."

"By having a short route and using mounted riders rather than traditional stagecoaches, they proposed to establish a fast mail service between St. Joseph, Missouri, and Sacramento, California, with letters delivered in 10 days, a duration many said was impossible. The price was $5 per half-ounce. The founders of the Pony Express hoped to win an exclusive government mail contract, but that did not come about."

[lawrocket 3]

normiss

We are talking about a gooberment that STILL believes in a War on Drugs

Failed gloriously in the states, let's try it somewhere else now!

Of course it does. Because the War on Drugs has created its own subeconomy. Ending the "war on Drugs" will cause a big economic shock. Police? Prison Guards? Look at how much less they'll have to do.

There's a movie out that I'd be interested in seeing. The Dallas Buyers Club. About a guy who is ciecling the drain with HIV and looks internationally for drugs to save or prolong his life. The FDA, of course, can't allow him to take these unapproved drugs. They might hurt him. And pharmaceuticals companies don't like it, and coordinate with the feds to make sure that he has no choice about his treatment modalities.

The War on Drugs is far more extensive than just the street dealers. There's a whole black market pharmaceutical industry.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 1,623]

davjohns

No points for you, Andy. The US Army doesn't count as the US Government.

It comes under the Department of Defense, which is the government department with the largest number of civilian employees BY FAR, and it also has the largest overhead in terms of civilians pushing paper to support each person doing the actual work (and that doesn't even include its "contractors").

If you add the VA to the DoD, the combination has more employees than all other government agencies combined.

If you want to cut the size of government, look in the mirror. All else is peanuts by comparison.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

kallend

***
No points for you, Andy. The US Army doesn't count as the US Government.

It comes under the Department of Defense, which is the government department with the largest number of civilian employees BY FAR, and it also has the largest overhead in terms of civilians pushing paper to support each person doing the actual work (and that doesn't even include its "contractors").

If you add the VA to the DoD, the combination has more employees than all other government agencies combined.

If you want to cut the size of government, look in the mirror. All else is peanuts by comparison.

And yet, even with all that, all four service branches together don't come close to matching what Medicare, Social security and Medicaid cost. Not event close.

And if you count back office personnel in the private sector responsible for billing Medicare then we start seeing even bigger costs.

I actually enjoy seeing comparisons to the military. Because comparing a couple trillion in entitlement spending to a few hundred billion of military spending is enough to show a bit of a disconnect.

Note: yes. I think we spend too much on the military, too.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

lawrocket

\
I actually enjoy seeing comparisons to the military. Because comparing a couple trillion in entitlement spending to a few hundred billion of military spending is enough to show a bit of a disconnect.

Except that MC+SS still currently collect a couple trillion in revenue each year, whereas the military is purely a cost center (or if you will, job works program).

The problem with this question of does the government every shut down a program is you can (and we're seeing it) say that X doesn't count.

The OSS doesn't exist anymore. Replaced by the CIA.
NASA since Goldin took over in 1991 is a shell of what it was during the Space Race and peak Shuttle years.
Most nuclear weapons programs have been shuttered - we now merely maintain a much smaller cache of warheads.

[lawrocket 3]

kelpdiver

***\
I actually enjoy seeing comparisons to the military. Because comparing a couple trillion in entitlement spending to a few hundred billion of military spending is enough to show a bit of a disconnect.

Except that MC+SS still currently collect a couple trillion in revenue each year, whereas the military is purely a cost center (or if you will, job works program).



Right. It used to collect more than it put out. Not any more. $2 trillion in taxes, plus additional taxes to repayt Medicare for the money taken from it in the past, is a big problem. Military spending is almost all discretionary. And taxes collected pay for it. Kinda.

[Quote]NASA since Goldin took over in 1991 is a shell of what it was during the Space Race and peak Shuttle years.

NASA has been a shell since the early to mid-70s. The Shuttle program was like just about any other government program - did not fulfill its promise. It was constantly required to do more with less. After the DoD stopped using the Shuttle for satellites, it became less useful and less popular.

But look at NASA's budget sometime. It's pretty interesting to see where the money is directed. Hint: Jim Hansen was a mighty persuasive leader.

But - we still have manned space flight. Just no way to get ours up ourselves. And a seemingly lacking vision of what to do next.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi rocket,

Quote

did not fulfill its promise.

While I do agree with a fair amount of your positions on various issues; I ask this: Have you ever lost in court?

Almost every gov't program ever could be determined to have not fulfilled its promises. A very subjective determination IMO.

JerryBaumchen

[rushmc 18]

JerryBaumchen

Hi rocket,

Quote

did not fulfill its promise.

While I do agree with a fair amount of your positions on various issues; I ask this: Have you ever lost in court?

Almost every gov't program ever could be determined to have not fulfilled its promises. A very subjective determination IMO.

JerryBaumchen

I would submit that many of these types of programs, were never sold to us based on what they wanted the truthful outcome to be

I think the ACA is doing what those who wrote it wanted. Except it is happening too fast
I think they hoped that so many would be on some sort of gov HC dole by time it hit the point it is at now, that the only solution would be single payer. At least this is the lie they would sell us with

Which, after all, it the stated goal of our president

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

lawrocket

Right. It used to collect more than it put out. Not any more. $2 trillion in taxes, plus additional taxes to repayt Medicare for the money taken from it in the past, is a big problem. Military spending is almost all discretionary. And taxes collected pay for it. Kinda.

I believe SS is still (barely) in the green. And suspect the same for MC.

Military spending is no more discretionary than QE...we can't just pull the plug on it without blowing up our economy. We will have to gradually ease off over a 5-10 year period to get the sort of cost reductions we need.

[billvon 2,400]

>Obamacare Will Be Repealed Well in Advance of the 2014 Mid-Term Elections.

Yep. And he'll be voted out of office in 2012. Romney is 4 points ahead once you "de-skew" the polls. And the GOP will shut down the government until Obamacare is repealed. Boehner will never back down. And Obama will ban guns.

And the reason you know the above prediction is true? All the words are capitalized. That's even better than underlining it and putting quotes and parentheses around it.

[davjohns 1]

kelpdiver

***\
I actually enjoy seeing comparisons to the military. Because comparing a couple trillion in entitlement spending to a few hundred billion of military spending is enough to show a bit of a disconnect.

Except that MC+SS still currently collect a couple trillion in revenue each year, whereas the military is purely a cost center (or if you will, job works program).

The problem with this question of does the government every shut down a program is you can (and we're seeing it) say that X doesn't count.

The OSS doesn't exist anymore. Replaced by the CIA.
NASA since Goldin took over in 1991 is a shell of what it was during the Space Race and peak Shuttle years.
Most nuclear weapons programs have been shuttered - we now merely maintain a much smaller cache of warheads.

There's a huge difference between swapping out obsolete equipment and closing down programs, agencies, and the like. My point was that agencies and programs don't go away. Once the infrastructure is there, it just changes to another purpose. I've seen it from inside. When the original purpose goes away, the agency tries to re-create itself to stay alive. My conclusion was that it is highly unlikely Obamacare will just go away.

Some people around here intentionally miss points (I'm being generous) and quibblle over semantics rather than acknowledge someone else's point; even when that point is not contrary to their own.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Stumpy 256]

billvon

>Obamacare Will Be Repealed Well in Advance of the 2014 Mid-Term Elections.

Yep. And he'll be voted out of office in 2012. Romney is 4 points ahead once you "de-skew" the polls. And the GOP will shut down the government until Obamacare is repealed. Boehner will never back down. And Obama HUSSEIN OBAMA will ban guns.

And the reason you know the above prediction is true? All the words are capitalized. That's even better than underlining it and putting quotes and parentheses around it.

FIFY

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[normiss 622]

To actually be correct, it should read "President Obama".
That's just how it works.
Deal with it.