Dear Liberal…Here’s Why I’m So Hostile

[jgoose71 0]

I just found this. I'm posting it here because I like the way he describes the difference between the Bill of Rights in the constitution and FDR's New Deal.

Give it a read, if you dare...
http://sufficient-reason.tumblr.com/post/26781491317/dear-liberal-heres-why-im-so-hostile

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[RonD1120 58]

See attached

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[regulator 0]

This sums up my feelings.


'In conclusion, just know that the harder you push to enact your agenda, the more hostile I will become — the harder I will fight you. It’s nothing personal, necessarily. If you want to become a slave to an all-powerful central government, be my guest. But if you are planning to take me and my family down with you, as we say down here in the South, I will stomp a mud-hole in your chest and walk it dry.

Bring it.'

[Stumpy 256]

regulator

This sums up my feelings.


'In conclusion, just know that the harder you push to enact your agenda, the more hostile I will become — the harder I will fight you. It’s nothing personal, necessarily. If you want to become a slave to an all-powerful central government, be my guest. But if you are planning to take me and my family down with you, as we say down here in the South, I will stomp a mud-hole in your chest and walk it dry.

Bring it.'

And thats fine, you are entitled to your opinion. As long as you understand the majority of the country feel exactly the same about the right, and will be just as resistant to their agenda.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[jgoose71 0]

Stumpy

***This sums up my feelings.


'In conclusion, just know that the harder you push to enact your agenda, the more hostile I will become — the harder I will fight you. It’s nothing personal, necessarily. If you want to become a slave to an all-powerful central government, be my guest. But if you are planning to take me and my family down with you, as we say down here in the South, I will stomp a mud-hole in your chest and walk it dry.

Bring it.'

And thats fine, you are entitled to your opinion. As long as you understand the majority of the country feel exactly the same about the right, and will be just as resistant to their agenda.

I'm sorry to hear that keeping one's personal freedoms is against the left's agenda.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billvon 2,476]

>I'm sorry to hear that keeping one's personal freedoms is against the left's agenda.

There are a lot of gays and women in the country who cannot understand why the right wing is so dead set against their personal freedoms. How would you explain the right wing's desire to take their freedoms away?

[jgoose71 0]

billvon

>I'm sorry to hear that keeping one's personal freedoms is against the left's agenda.

There are a lot of gays and women in the country who cannot understand why the right wing is so dead set against their personal freedoms. How would you explain the right wing's desire to take their freedoms away?

It's not. Please re-read the article for better understanding.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Stumpy 256]

It's just as equally against the right's agenda - they just choose different freedoms. You don't get a free pass on the causes YOU deem to be appropriate.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[billvon 2,476]

>It's just as equally against the right's agenda - they just choose different freedoms.
>You don't get a free pass on the causes YOU deem to be appropriate.

Exactly. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who claim their freedoms are being taken away - while they are trying to take _other_ people's freedoms away.

[jgoose71 0]

billvon

>It's just as equally against the right's agenda - they just choose different freedoms.
>You don't get a free pass on the causes YOU deem to be appropriate.

Exactly. I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who claim their freedoms are being taken away - while they are trying to take _other_ people's freedoms away.

Your demagoguing to justify bad behavior.

The left's response is "Take away freedoms in response to taking away freedoms."

Let's try this. Keep the freedoms we have and fight for the freedoms we don't.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billvon 2,476]

>Let's try this. Keep the freedoms we have and fight for the freedoms we don't.

Great! Now if we can just get both sides onboard with that we could make some progress.

[jgoose71 0]

billvon

>Let's try this. Keep the freedoms we have and fight for the freedoms we don't.

Great! Now if we can just get both sides onboard with that we could make some progress.

Now that we got that out of the way, I'm guessing buy your post you never read the original article.

Way in "left" field...

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[wmw999 2,178]

He doesn't talk about gay rights or abortion in this diatribe (although many Tea Partiers do appear to be solidly against both of these).

However, one thing to consider is that the conservative viewpoint tends to be more reactive than proactive when going between systems -- if there is a crime, punish it. If there is a problem, fix it. Only within a system (or company) is a proactive approach possible, because it takes infrastructure to be proactive between companies, communities, etc. -- government.

If you believe in the concept of a stitch in time saves 9 (or prevention is cheaper than cure), then somehow, someone has to look forward, and try to figure out the best way to prevent problems that might come up -- if they're worth preventing.

We went for years doing nothing about air quality. We do stuff about air quality now. Some people object to that, but, well, the cost of not doing so would be for the US to be as polluted as (or probably more polluted than) China. Not an admirable goal.

We went for years without doing anything about public health. But having sewers maintained by cities, and having requirements for them, has saved a decent number of jobs.

There are reasons for just about every system in place now; some of them are past their time, some of them are bogus (they were only to buy congressional votes in the first place), some of them were ideas that didn't quite work, and some are really necessary.

There is no way that everyone will agree on all of them. Leaving it to only the things that all people agree on means that absolutely nothing will have any controls. Great -- just watch, then, what happens with all those big corporations, now that there aren't anti-trust laws, pollution laws, etc. to enforce some sort of fair competition.

Some people see Sunday as an enforced day of rest, or Christmas as a holiday, as being against their religion. They have to go to work on their day of rest, and their primary holidays, or take vacation days (depending on the employer).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rickjump1 0]

regulator

This sums up my feelings.


'In conclusion, just know that the harder you push to enact your agenda, the more hostile I will become — the harder I will fight you. It’s nothing personal, necessarily. If you want to become a slave to an all-powerful central government, be my guest. But if you are planning to take me and my family down with you, as we say down here in the South, I will stomp a mud-hole in your chest and walk it dry.

Bring it.'

Rest assured, your sentiments are not restricted to the South.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[jgoose71 0]

I know the left always comes back to gay rights and the right to choose. For this argument, that is a non-sequitur.

As I told billvon, why are you giving up rights in response to giving up rights? We need to keep what rights we do have, and continue to fight for the rest.

Gay rights (Marriage) only became an issue recently because of the monetary gains by the government to be labeled as a family. When it was a priest just blessing you under a tree, no one cared because there was no gains to be had. This is a great example of "as our society grows, identifying the shortfalls, and fighting to keep up."

As for the right to choose, for a lot of people it's a balance of the mother's rights and the babies rights. As to when life starts, that is the question (when to give the fetus the same rights as a person). We should continue to fight to understand when life starts. One of the reasons I am pro-choice is because I don't feel that we have a definitive answer, so I don't think we should not pass laws on it, and leave the choice to individual beliefs.

Which goes back to the OP. Why would you want to give up the freedoms you do have?

My personal belief is that my rights end where yours start. Do you remember the smoking argument?

"You like to smoke, I like to have a beer. Your smoking gets in my face and hair makes me smell bad and gives me cancer. The by product of my beer is piss. Is it all right if I piss all over you?"

To that extent, some regulations are needed. Not everything the EPA has done is bad.

What about health care? With this new bill we have crossed the line. I'm now responsible for taking care of everyone at the point of the government gun. Personal responsibility is gone. I'm no longer free to do with as I please with what I earn.

To follow on, people piss and moan about government intrusion in their life, but demand the government take care of them. Sorry, you can't have one with out the other. I personally would much rather have less government in my life and be allowed to do more for myself. If your not happy about government surveillance programs, you've got no one to blame but your self. When you demanded security, it's the price you paid.

Yep, rights we are fighting for, rights we are still trying to understand, and rights we are giving away. It's how I see it.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[grue 1]

billvon

>I'm sorry to hear that keeping one's personal freedoms is against the left's agenda.

There are a lot of gays and women in the country who cannot understand why the right wing is so dead set against their personal freedoms. How would you explain the right wing's desire to take their freedoms away?

Pigeonholing is stupid. "Right wing" and "left wing", "liberal" and "conservative" are words that don't apply to many people at all.

Me? I'm probably "right wing" in a lot of ways, and feel that the government shouldn't be involved with marriage AT ALL. Don't recognize it between ANYBODY, because it's a stupid outdated social custom that doesn't need to involve the government. If people need to have something to make sure their partners get benefits, fine: We can have a government-recognized domestic partnership. This can be between a man and a woman, two men, two women, two women and a man, or any other combination people care to come up with as long as all participants are adults who can give informed consent. The word marriage should not be in the government's vocabulary.

As for abortion rights? Go wild. I don't like kids, I don't think most people should be parents, and I sure as hell don't think people should be encouraged to create more fuck trophies that they aren't going to care for, and that will annoy the shit out of me. Want an abortion? Awesome, thank you for being responsible and not creating yet another unwanted child.



Frankly, I think every law that needs to exist already does, and most of the laws that do exist need to be struck from the books.

cavete terrae.

[Stumpy 256]

jgoose71

What about health care? With this new bill we have crossed the line. I'm now responsible for taking care of everyone at the point of the government gun. Personal responsibility is gone. I'm no longer free to do with as I please with what I earn.

Wrong - you always were responsible for this, it came from your taxes. Its just that previously, there was no way for them to be able to help take care of themselves. The ACA (flawed as it may be) goes at least some of the way to ensuring that you don't have to take care of them any more. Aditionally, preventative medicine (which is cheaper and far more effective) becomes accessible to more people, lowering the cost to society as a whole.
Without a single payer system, this is the only logical way to proceed - otherwise all you are doing is putting your head in the sand and pretending the problem doesn't exist, or disguising it as something else.
Could it/should it have been done better? Sure. But at this point there needs to be a stake in the ground to improve on, and like him or loathe him, I believe in the future Obama will be looked on favorably by the history books for planting that stake.

Quote

To that extent, some regulations are needed. Not everything the EPA has done is bad.

To that extent, some regulations are needed. Not everything Obamacare has done is bad.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[kelpdiver 2]

jgoose71

I know the left always comes back to gay rights and the right to choose. For this argument, that is a non-sequitur.

As I told billvon, why are you giving up rights in response to giving up rights? We need to keep what rights we do have, and continue to fight for the rest.

Gay rights (Marriage) only became an issue recently because of the monetary gains by the government to be labeled as a family. When it was a priest just blessing you under a tree, no one cared because there was no gains to be had. This is a great example of "as our society grows, identifying the shortfalls, and fighting to keep up."

first off, I got bored senseless trying to read your citation, couldn't make it a quarter of the way in. Maybe if you paid me to read it...

But let's get to your nonsense instead. Gay rights and abortion rights debate has been prevalent since the 60s. Hardly new. The difference is that enough people finally decided gays can be left alone, enough that the religious right who want to decide how all of us should live felt the need to intercede.

It takes a special lack of self awareness to insist it is the liberals who are hell bent on removing rights. (Aside from gun rights...pretty clear and lousy record there. ) Let's not forget flag burning amendments, restrictions on protests against Bush, the never ending fight against good smut. Somehow only religion is the only survivor in the 1st, but only if that religion includes Jesus Christ. Fuck Allah!

[jgoose71 0]

kelpdiver

first off, I got bored senseless trying to read your citation, couldn't make it a quarter of the way in. Maybe if you paid me to read it...

Translated:

I don't got time to like, learn shit and stuff. Can someone just tell me what to think? Obama seems cool, I'll just do what ever he says...

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[DrewEckhardt 0]

RonD1120

See attached

It's pretty straightforward.

The Republicans want a big, powerful government run for corporations' benefit with its growth paid for by inflation.

The Democrats want a big, powerful government run for corporations' benefit with its growth paid for by higher taxes.

For nearly all practical purposes they're the same.

They appoint the same Federal Reserve governors who give The National Association of Realtors (ranked first in donations to candidates for every election since 1998), National Association of Home Builders, and Mortgage Bankers Association of America PACs their quid pro quo in the form of $40B a month printed to buy mortgages, keep interest rates down, and home sales up.

They both passed $100B/year bills funneling money into health care industries. Republican President Bush, Speaker Hastert, Senate, and House passed Medicare Part D with PHarmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America thanking Republican Representative Billy Tauzin for his help with a seven figure job as their president and CEO. PhRMA did a little negotiating with the Democrats to remove onerous provisions of ACA like the re-import provision and once happy spun up a pair of 501(c)(4) organizations which coordinated their $150M in spending with the White House. As a footnote, Obamacare was about the same as Republican Romneycare and the 1993 Republican health plan.

They both support one of the world's most enormous Socialist organizations: the US military. Cooperative management of that economy, Government housing, Government healthcare, etc. When you ask they'll say it's about defense, but when you're spending 5X the second place country, 10X the next NATO country in your mutual defense pact, and 30X the first world country with the same land mass it's about creating government jobs not defense. (This ignores things like Veterans Affairs, military pensions, homeland security, the Department of Energy's work on nuclear weapons, and interest on previous military spending which aren't considered military spending and make the real numbers much worse).

A disproportionate number of Democratic politicians claim to not like guns and try to pass related laws. Bush 41 pioneered the Executive Order as a gun control tool with his 1989 import ban, Arnold signed his share of anti-gun laws, the Republicans don't undo the Democrats' damage when they have their turn at being in charge, but the Democrats do more.

Listen to Republican politicians and a disproportionate number don't like gays and abortion. Sometimes they actually pass laws to that effect.

Our first-past-the-post electoral system inevitably leads to the two parties about alike and precludes third party elections.

Where one's district hasn't been Gerrymandered and natural demographics don't lean too far to one side you can choose and perhaps elect one of the two based on such minor issues.

Where it's skewed you can choose one, complain, and donate towards their victory in other districts.

Either way keeping your dinner down requires ignoring the egregious things they do like the other side along with anything uniquely offensive they've managed which doesn't effect you personally enough to change your mind.

Having the most punitive nee progressive tax system out of the OECD 24 without giving me value for my money like healthcare (that costs me another $15K/year in spending including employer contributions) or a pension replacing more than 30% of my income (I work around that by setting aside $17.5K of my money) hurts me, I like guns, don't want to marry a man, don't have a womb, and can afford to fly female family members to free places in the unlikely event something happens to legal abortion in a relevant jurisdiction so I hate Democratic politicians more and am therefore a Republican. That doesn't change when they doing the same things the Democrats do or other offensive things which don't affect my family.

Other people have equally valid reasons to hate Republican politicians more, be Democrats, and ignore their team's negative issues.

Given a real choice I'd vote geolibertarian with a broad view of the zero aggression principle but that's not a politically viable position.

That said individual "liberals" and "conservatives" are fellow victims of the same oppressors and my friends include both sorts of people.

[tkhayes 154]

Dear right-winger....here's why I am so hostile:

Sarah Palin
Michelle Bachmann
Alan West (no longer important)
Sean Hannity
Bill O'Reilly
Rand Paul
Ted Cruz
Koch Brothers
Todd Akin

I can go on. Your party is on the fringe of lunacy and you are all OK with that. There are plenty of things to talk about and plenty of things that are not right, but when you stand there and spout rhetorical lies/bullshit/made-up-crap, then you are party to just that - and you will be summarily dismissed as such.

http://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-do-crazy-things-because-they-have-crazy-beliefs-2013-10

[tkhayes 154]

Oh yeah, I forgot the latest, the 'tech expert' to analyze Obamacare:
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/gop-asked-tech-founder-ex-fugitive-mcafee-diagnose-obamacare-8C11432390

welcome to the world of crazy. And they respond by getting crazier. nice....

[kelpdiver 2]

jgoose71

***
first off, I got bored senseless trying to read your citation, couldn't make it a quarter of the way in. Maybe if you paid me to read it...

Translated:

I don't got time to like, learn shit and stuff. Can someone just tell me what to think? Obama seems cool, I'll just do what ever he says...

I'll give you a shorter translation - whackjobs who can't write should watch their word count. Whining is annoying to start with, but really bad when it goes on and on. This applies to left leaners as well, and there's no shortage of these nuts in the Bay Area.

Noticed you couldn't respond to the rest of my post.

[regulator 0]

tkhayes

Dear right-winger....here's why I am so hostile:

Sarah Palin
Michelle Bachmann
Alan West (no longer important)
Sean Hannity
Bill O'Reilly
Rand Paul
Ted Cruz
Koch Brothers
Todd Akin

I can go on. Your party is on the fringe of lunacy and you are all OK with that. There are plenty of things to talk about and plenty of things that are not right, but when you stand there and spout rhetorical lies/bullshit/made-up-crap, then you are party to just that - and you will be summarily dismissed as such.

http://www.businessinsider.com/republicans-do-crazy-things-because-they-have-crazy-beliefs-2013-10

------------------------------------------------------
Pfft

George Soros
Jeffrey Katzenberg
Amy Goldman
James H. Simons
Leo Linbeck III
Fred Eychaner
Bill Maher
Kareem Ahmed
And that fucking twat Piers Morgan


I'll take your list anyday over anyone on this list.

[Stumpy 256]

The face that you would choose ANY of them says a lot about you.

Never try to eat more than you can lift