Active shooter - DC Navy yard

[rehmwa 2]

GeorgiaDon

On the other hand, society seems to have become more violent over time.

that's true - a long time ago, people would knife, spear, and gut each other. women would be stoned and burned alive. etc.

nowadays is so much worse

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,123]

kelpdiver

***
So the policy of military personnel not carrying weapons on base goes back much earlier than Clinton.

which is interesting and all, but only supports the notion that army bases aren't full of armed people.

Why is that? Why are people who are mostly trained in the use of weapons not allowed to carry weapons?

[DaVinci 0]

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Unlike some, I realize that there are upsides and downsides to every course of action

You claim you are the only one.... But you seem to parrot the VPC with every word.

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society seems to have become more violent over time

History would show you to be wrong.
In the 30-40's 6 million Jews were killed for being Jews.
In the 1860's people were killed because they didn't like your shirt, or you kicked up some dust on the way to the bar.
In the 1100's torture was used to get confessions on religious grounds.
In 500-400 BC Spartans would throw children into pits that didn't look healthy.

Simple fact is that is a matter of numbers. If there is one whackjob for every 1M people, then if you have 1M people you have one nutter. If you have 313M then you will have 313 nutters.

[OHCHUTE 0]

It's unbelievable people don't discuss, locking the doors, searching bags, and people, at points of entry, and exit, yet discuss, having to fight or defend against people who got in. Once the perp got in, there is no conversation.

Watch who is coming in! Hello. Maybe this solution is soooooo easy it's overlooked.

[DaVinci 0]

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It's unbelievable people don't discuss, locking the doors, searching bags, and people, at points of entry, and exit, yet discuss, having to fight or defend against people who got in. Once the perp got in, there is no conversation.

Watch who is coming in! Hello. Maybe this solution is soooooo easy it's overlooked.

Just like every mass shooting event, there are plenty of 'tells' that show that this person is a danger. These are all to often ignored and only seen in retrospect.

The problem is not guns, it is mental health issues. But as long as one side continues to try and blame it on the object.... We will get nowhere. The defenders of the 2nd have to defend against this stupid accusations because if we don't then we will lose a right.

Look at the recent Chicago shooting. One of the people arrested was a felon and had another felony charge for using a weapon while being a felon. This person was sent to a 'boot camp'. Why was this violent felon X2 not thrown under the jail? why was he ever allowed to walk the streets a free man?

Yet the anti gunners want to blame the object. Never mind that this person ignored the City wide ban on firearms, didn't have a State issued gun owner ID... No, they ignore these laws and claim we need more since the litany of stupid laws didn't work.... How about we just lock up violent criminals and never let them see the light of day again?

This MIGHT stop some violence. Passing another stupid law will not.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

History would show you to be wrong.
In the 30-40's 6 million Jews were killed for being Jews.
In the 1860's people were killed because they didn't like your shirt, or you kicked up some dust on the way to the bar.
In the 1100's torture was used to get confessions on religious grounds.
In 500-400 BC Spartans would throw children into pits that didn't look healthy.

Simple fact is that is a matter of numbers. If there is one whackjob for every 1M people, then if you have 1M people you have one nutter. If you have 313M then you will have 313 nutters.

I'll concede the point, which remhwa also made. I was thinking of the US, and shorter term (decades), but even there the claim is probably unrealistic.

I've no idea who the "VPC" is.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[rushmc 18]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

History would show you to be wrong.
In the 30-40's 6 million Jews were killed for being Jews.
In the 1860's people were killed because they didn't like your shirt, or you kicked up some dust on the way to the bar.
In the 1100's torture was used to get confessions on religious grounds.
In 500-400 BC Spartans would throw children into pits that didn't look healthy.

Simple fact is that is a matter of numbers. If there is one whackjob for every 1M people, then if you have 1M people you have one nutter. If you have 313M then you will have 313 nutters.

I'll concede the point, which remhwa also made. I was thinking of the US, and shorter term (decades), but even there the claim is probably unrealistic.

I've no idea who the "VPC" is.

Don

The VPC is the Violence Policy Center

AKA the Brady Bunch

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

The VPC is the Violence Policy Center

AKA the Brady Bunch

Ah, I see. Thanks for that.

I don't think my position is exactly the same as the VPC, though the difference might be too nuanced for some. I don't argue that people should be disarmed. I also do not argue in favor of banning specific weapons or ammunition.

I do think everyone should go through a background check, even for private sales. I like the system you described for Iowa, where a would-be purchaser gets a permit from the sheriff, who does the background check. I understand the Iowa law was recently revised, so if nothing negative turns up on the background check the sheriff must issue the permit, and that seems fine to me. That way there is no burden on the seller, other than to ask to see the permit.

So I'm at a bit of a loss to see how my position is exactly like the VPC.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[DaVinci 0]

Quote

So I'm at a bit of a loss to see how my position is exactly like the VPC.

Because if you point blank as the VPC is they want to ban guns... They will say no. But then they will make every attempt to ban anything they can, then try to ban the next thing, then the next thing. They have tempered the message recently.... But look at them historically.

"We'll take one step at a time, and the first is necessarily – given the political realities – very modest. We'll have to start working again to strengthen the law, and then again to strengthen the next law and again and again. Our ultimate goal, total control of handguns, is going to take time. The first problem is to slow down production and sales. Next is to get registration. The final problem is to make possession of all handguns and ammunition (with a few exceptions) totally illegal.---1976, then chairman Nelson "Pete" Shields

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I do think everyone should go through a background check, even for private sales.

Would you support a background check to prevent felons from voting? (BTW, I don't mind a background check to buy a gun, OR vote. I DO mind when the background check turns into registration).

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I like the system you described for Iowa, where a would-be purchaser gets a permit from the sheriff

Would you support a system where a voter had to go to a sheriff to get a ballot to vote? They had this system in the 30-60's and it ended with the Voting rights act.

The problem is while your ideas SOUND good, they have been used to restrict a right more than once. The difference is that you would be upset if the same standard you want for the 2nd was applied to any other right.

[rushmc 18]

Notice how fast this story is disapearing from the lame stream media since it was determined the scary AR15 was NOT used??

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,123]

How much faster is it disappearing from the news cycle compared to other stories?

Do you have any metric, other than your own (biased) perception?

[DaVinci 0]

I have noticed that when they claimed it was an AR it was front page.... Now that it was the same weapon that Biden said was a good SD weapon it is buried in the story on page 8.

There are reasons for it.... But it would be nice if it being a shotgun was the headline, even if it was on page 8.

[rushmc 18]

Sandy Hook and Aurora Colorado

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,123]

rushmc

Sandy Hook and Aurora Colorado

Yes, this is exactly the same as Sandy Hook especially.

I completely agree that the difference in coverage is completely due to the weapon involved and has absolutely nothing to do with the location of the shooting, or the age of the majority of the victims.

[wmw999 2,123]

Sandy Hook took out 20 children, almost an entire first grade class. That's huge, and is going to dominate any US news.

Aurora CO I don't know about as much -- could be activists, could be it was a slower news time (after all, there are lots of other exciting things going on, what with Syria, Iran, and Kenya).

I don't really see a conspiracy.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 18]

wmw999

Sandy Hook took out 20 children, almost an entire first grade class. That's huge, and is going to dominate any US news.

Aurora CO I don't know about as much -- could be activists, could be it was a slower news time (after all, there are lots of other exciting things going on, what with Syria, Iran, and Kenya).

I don't really see a conspiracy.

Wendy P.

Just do a search that looks at the AR15

The difference is amazing

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

***Sandy Hook and Aurora Colorado

Yes, this is exactly the same as Sandy Hook especially.

I completely agree that the difference in coverage is completely due to the weapon involved and has absolutely nothing to do with the location of the shooting, or the age of the majority of the victims.

So, they fit the agenda

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,123]

rushmc

******Sandy Hook and Aurora Colorado

Yes, this is exactly the same as Sandy Hook especially.

I completely agree that the difference in coverage is completely due to the weapon involved and has absolutely nothing to do with the location of the shooting, or the age of the majority of the victims.

So, they fit the agenda

Yes, you are right, exactly the same thing.

You have uncovered a conspirancy at least as large as the one covering up nanothermite. If you can't get any journalist to believe you, it is because he is liberal/socialist scum. They are all in on it!!

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

*********Sandy Hook and Aurora Colorado

Yes, this is exactly the same as Sandy Hook especially.

I completely agree that the difference in coverage is completely due to the weapon involved and has absolutely nothing to do with the location of the shooting, or the age of the majority of the victims.

So, they fit the agenda

Yes, you are right, exactly the same thing.

You have uncovered a conspirancy at least as large as the one covering up nanothermite. If you can't get any journalist to believe you, it is because he is liberal/socialist scum. They are all in on it!!

LOL

atta boy

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

Would you support a system where a voter had to go to a sheriff to get a ballot to vote?

Well, I had to go to the voting registration office to get put on the voter roles. But maybe that was just me.

Hey wait a minute! Voter registration? I have to get put on a list if I want to vote? You mean the gooberment knows where I live, keeps a record of that, just so I can exercise a Constitutional Right???? I can't just walk into any polling station, demand my right to vote, and leave it up to the gooberment to prove after the fact that I was actually not actually entitled to vote at that polling place? What kind of a country is this, anyway? Not a free one, I guess. Oh, the humanity!

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[kallend 1,625]

DaVinci

I have noticed that when they claimed it was an AR it was front page.... Now that it was the same weapon that Biden said was a good SD weapon it is buried in the story on page 8.

How's that tinfoil hat working out for you?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

***I have noticed that when they claimed it was an AR it was front page.... Now that it was the same weapon that Biden said was a good SD weapon it is buried in the story on page 8.

How's that tinfoil hat working out for you?

Better than your denial of wanting guns banned

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,625]

rushmc

******I have noticed that when they claimed it was an AR it was front page.... Now that it was the same weapon that Biden said was a good SD weapon it is buried in the story on page 8.

How's that tinfoil hat working out for you?

Better than your denial of wanting guns banned

How's that tired old straw man working out for you?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

Would you support a system where a voter had to go to a sheriff to get a ballot to vote?

Well, I had to go to the voting registration office to get put on the voter roles. But maybe that was just me.

In CA, you can register at the DMV, at any grocery store or transit hub or busy intersection where a partisan party pays someone to act as a registrar.

The entire point of requiring visiting a sheriff to register a gun is to make more difficult, particularly for those who don't live in more rural areas, or who do not own a car. It's a perfect example of that "sounds reasonable to me if I don't think about it" type of gun control legislation.

[kelpdiver 2]

GeorgiaDon

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Your focus in general on these topics has been a bit odd the past few days.

Well if by "odd" you mean "not following the NRA script" then I suppose you have a point.

More in the perhaps you need some ritalin way. Or more pointed, you seem to have an agenda and it won't be stopped by the actual subject material - you'll work it in. over and over.

Quote

On the other hand, society seems to have become more violent over time.

Or perhaps you're viewing history selectively. You don't see many lynchings these days. Rape is now prosecuted, and not just if a black man may have touched a white woman (see sentence #2) Hippies probably won't get their skulls caved in for protesting.