Active shooter - DC Navy yard

[masterrig 1]

Gravitymaster

It's also being reported he was hearing voices.

It was reported also that 'supposedly' he contacted 2 professional sources who he said would not help him. This made him upset and he went over the edge and proceeded to open fire.
To me, it's amazing that the guy, with all that has been said about his background, was able to get 'top security'. How was the guy allowed to get this far? Someone somewhere wasn't paying attention.


Chuck

[masterrig 1]

devildog

************I still feel that if guns are taken away from law abiding citizens...

Chuck

Apparently Mr. Alexis had never been convicted of anything, so he WAS a law abiding citizen, right up until the instant of his death. Ask Turtlespeed.

However, he WAS Texan.

http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2013/09/16/suspect-in-navy-yard-attack-previously-arrested-in-seattle-for-anger-fueled-shooting/

Law abiding, except for the whole shooting out the tires of cars in 2004

He wasn't tried and or convicted of a crime. I believe, from what I've been told, a person is innocent till proven guilty. Seems as though, over the years, that has taken a 180.


Chuck
I didn't say he was convicted or a criminal. There are plenty of ways you can not abide by the law and still not not be tried or sentenced. But I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that in Seattle, its not abiding by the law if you shoot out car tires in a parking lot.

I see your point... and it's a good one! You brought-out another good point... why didn't Seattle charge him with something like 'discharging a firearm in city limits' or disorderly conduct or vandalism... they really missed the boat, there. Not un-like others along the way who let him slip through the cracks.


Chuck

[rickjump1 0]

masterrig

***It's also being reported he was hearing voices.

It was reported also that 'supposedly' he contacted 2 professional sources who he said would not help him. This made him upset and he went over the edge and proceeded to open fire.
To me, it's amazing that the guy, with all that has been said about his background, was able to get 'top security'. How was the guy allowed to get this far? Someone somewhere wasn't paying attention.


Chuck I remember the old days when employers would never hire someone with less than an honorable discharge. I guess that doesn't float today.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[masterrig 1]

rickjump1

******It's also being reported he was hearing voices.

It was reported also that 'supposedly' he contacted 2 professional sources who he said would not help him. This made him upset and he went over the edge and proceeded to open fire.
To me, it's amazing that the guy, with all that has been said about his background, was able to get 'top security'. How was the guy allowed to get this far? Someone somewhere wasn't paying attention.


Chuck I remember the old days when employers would never hire someone with less than an honorable discharge. I guess that doesn't float today.

I think, that's because of all the anti-discrimination laws that have been passed.


Chuck

[DanG 1]

Quote

I think, that's because of all the anti-discrimination laws that have been passed.

I disagree. There are no laws against discriminating against people based on their past bad behavior.

This whole case is weird. I hold a Secret clearance, and one of the questions on the SF-86 is "Have you ever received a discharge that was other than honorable?" The shooter would have had to answer yes to that question. I'm suprised he was still able to receive a Secret clearance.

- Dan G

[rushmc 21]

DanG

Quote

I think, that's because of all the anti-discrimination laws that have been passed.

I disagree. There are no laws against discriminating against people based on their past bad behavior.

This whole case is weird. I hold a Secret clearance, and one of the questions on the SF-86 is "Have you ever received a discharge that was other than honorable?" The shooter would have had to answer yes to that question. I'm suprised he was still able to receive a Secret clearance.

Maybe I missed something but, the report I heard this AM said he was honorably discharged!

Has that account changed?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 21]

quade

***There I went for it

Sadly, your "facts" don't hold up to history.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/20/us/worst-u-s-shootings-timeline/index.html

The fact is, mass gun violence has been accelerating.
recently yes
since the 1960's
not so much

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[masterrig 1]

DanG

Quote

I think, that's because of all the anti-discrimination laws that have been passed.

I disagree. There are no laws against discriminating against people based on their past bad behavior.

This whole case is weird. I hold a Secret clearance, and one of the questions on the SF-86 is "Have you ever received a discharge that was other than honorable?" The shooter would have had to answer yes to that question. I'm suprised he was still able to receive a Secret clearance.

True. Questions in regard to 'criminal' history are allowed. Thanks for pointing that out.


Chuck

[rushmc 21]

New report

AR15 NOT used


http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/ar-15-gun-debate/?hpt=hp_t1

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

quade

***I don't believe anything CNN says.
Their record on truth and honesty is laughable at best.

So, you believe CNN is "faking" the dates and histories of these shootings?

Gee if only there was some sort of magic box you could use to check.

It's not the events they put down. It's the events they did not. Immediately I noticed that the 101 California shooting was missing - this was the precursor to the 1994 AWB. Its absence is odd. Nor was the Stockton school shooting by Purdy, which lead to the AK47 ban in California.

Since the "story" doesn't indicate their selection process, it's hard to tell. I may be that they set the standard at 10+ dead, which eliminates both of the above, but seems misguided. Quite a few kids were hurt in Stockton (nearly 30) in addition to the 5 killed. Having that bar creates an artificial filter on an event that is already an outlier, since even at the standard of 4 killed you only have 20some events per year.

Trying to make a statistical conclusion, given that, is a fool's errand. I have no doubt that this was their intent.

[DanG 1]

Quote

Maybe I missed something but, the report I heard this AM said he was honorably discharged!

I heard this morning that his discharge was "General". That's not the same as Honorable. The options for discharge are:

Honorable
Dishonorable
Other Than Honorable
General
Bad Conduct

I think there are some other, less common ones, but those are the usual ones. A General dischange indicates that he didn't finish out his committment, but his problems didn't rise to the level of Dishonorable or Bad Conduct. It's complicated, and I'm far from an expert.

- Dan G

[rushmc 21]

DanG

Quote

Maybe I missed something but, the report I heard this AM said he was honorably discharged!

I heard this morning that his discharge was "General". That's not the same as Honorable. The options for discharge are:

Honorable
Dishonorable
Other Than Honorable
General
Bad Conduct

I think there are some other, less common ones, but those are the usual ones. A General dischange indicates that he didn't finish out his committment, but his problems didn't rise to the level of Dishonorable or Bad Conduct. It's complicated, and I'm far from an expert.

AP reporting he got an honorable discharge

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NAVY_YARD_SHOOTING_DISCHARGE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2013-09-17-10-51-51

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[masterrig 1]

Just saw tis...

http://home.myhughesnet.com/news/read/category/Top%20News/article/ap-navy_yard_gunman_visited_range_day_befor-ap


Chuck

[normiss 737]

Interesting point that I've noticed as well.

Arrested? Charged?? MUST be guilty - and we'll keep bringing it up for the rest of your life.
Convicted of a misdemeanor or a non-violent felony?
You're fucked for life.

It used to be innocent until proven guilty and if you've paid your debt to society you get another chance.
We wonder why so many re-offend?
Give them a path and a chance to succeed.

[kallend 1,882]

Gravitymaster

******Why are you limiting it to 2 years. Oh, never mind. Just more obfuscation on your part.

OK, 5 years, 10 years...

Which western nation has had more mass shootings in that time?

Oh, now it's a Western Nation.

Now?

Post #89, this thread:
"Tell us which other western nations have had as many mass shootings as the USA in the past 2 years."

Reading is a useful skill - you should try it sometime.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,882]

devildog

******I still feel that if guns are taken away from law abiding citizens...

Chuck

Apparently Mr. Alexis had never been convicted of anything, so he WAS a law abiding citizen, right up until the instant of his death. Ask Turtlespeed.

However, he WAS Texan.

http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2013/09/16/suspect-in-navy-yard-attack-previously-arrested-in-seattle-for-anger-fueled-shooting/

Law abiding, except for the whole shooting out the tires of cars in 2004

But Turtlespeed told us very clearly that he is innocent until proven guilty in court. And that never happened.

Therefore, law abiding.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 737]

Not convicted of crimes = law abiding citizen.

[kallend 1,882]

rickjump1

******It's also being reported he was hearing voices.

It was reported also that 'supposedly' he contacted 2 professional sources who he said would not help him. This made him upset and he went over the edge and proceeded to open fire.
To me, it's amazing that the guy, with all that has been said about his background, was able to get 'top security'. How was the guy allowed to get this far? Someone somewhere wasn't paying attention.


Chuck I remember the old days when employers would never hire someone with less than an honorable discharge. I guess that doesn't float today.

Where did it say he had a "less than honorable" discharge?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,882]

rushmc

New report

AR15 NOT used


http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/17/us/ar-15-gun-debate/?hpt=hp_t1

Well, that's good news for the dead people.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[normiss 737]

Companies have hired BCD's and OTH's, and General, and LTH's as well as convicted felons forever.

This guy had an honorable.

[masterrig 1]

The way I see it, folks are tried and convicted in the media. People tend to believe the worst. Recent big trials in Florida, for example. The media got hold of them and look what happened. Jody Arias trial in Arizona was a huge media 'event'. I really believe, the media should not be allowed in any courtroom.
I believe, some can be helped and there are that few who you cannot help, no matter what. It's difficult to sort them out but Ya' gotta try something. Our prisons are about to bust at the seams. That's another argument.


Chuck

[kallend 1,882]

normiss

Companies have hired BCD's and OTH's, and General, and LTH's as well as convicted felons forever.

This guy had an honorable.

Correct.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 4]

normiss

Not convicted of crimes = law abiding citizen.

No. Not by a LONG shot.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wmw999 2,343]

But from a legal point of view, yes.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[masterrig 1]

DanG

Quote

Maybe I missed something but, the report I heard this AM said he was honorably discharged!

I heard this morning that his discharge was "General". That's not the same as Honorable. The options for discharge are:

Honorable
Dishonorable
Other Than Honorable
General
Bad Conduct

I think there are some other, less common ones, but those are the usual ones. A General dischange indicates that he didn't finish out his committment, but his problems didn't rise to the level of Dishonorable or Bad Conduct. It's complicated, and I'm far from an expert.

Just heard.. the shooter's original discharge was a 'General' discharge, later up-graded to an 'honorable' discharge because he was (at the time) applying to a civilian security company.


Chuck