Self Defense: Right or Privilege?

[rushmc 18]

skypuppy

. There are far more defensive gun uses then accidental gun deaths in the us. Some estimate well over a million defensive gun uses/year.

There is college research that suggests this number is closer to 2 million

One thing for sure
Defensive uses are under reported
Shootings are over reported

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[regulator 0]

normiss

In the case I mentioned at that gas station, they were clearly coming to me/after me, from multiple angles.
If I hadn't only just started fueling, I would have had time to simply get in my truck and leave.
FYI - I no longer carry on a regular basis - it's a weight on your conscience to be honest. I also realized there's no need to always carry - at least on your person. Works well in the glove box though. ;-)

This is not a safe world at times.
Prepare accordingly.

what ever happened to the days of the full service gas stations?

[turtlespeed 212]

regulator

***In the case I mentioned at that gas station, they were clearly coming to me/after me, from multiple angles.
If I hadn't only just started fueling, I would have had time to simply get in my truck and leave.
FYI - I no longer carry on a regular basis - it's a weight on your conscience to be honest. I also realized there's no need to always carry - at least on your person. Works well in the glove box though. ;-)

This is not a safe world at times.
Prepare accordingly.

what ever happened to the days of the full service gas stations?

I'm still trying to fathom the death penalty for owning a gun.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[linebckr83 3]

Bignugget

******(I do like the irony of your post after telling me I must not travel a lot)

When did I say you dont travel? I asked, I didn't say you do not travel. That's not irony.

What would you do then, in an unfamiliar very large city, running on low fuel and an extremely busy interstate? Yea yea I get it, you wouldn't get low on fuel in an unknown city, etc etc. Typical skydiver mentality, it'll never happen to me because I wouldn't be there in the first place. Shit does happen sometimes. No one can be 100% prepared all the time, including you.

Wendy I'm glad you've never been somewhere that makes you uncomfortable. I can't say the same, and having a gun pulled on you while you hand over your wallet is a pretty uncomfortable position.


And a better solution to that is a gun battle?

Instead of just handing over the wallet?


Now of course my solution is remove all the guns so the robber has a less likely chance of having one....

Yours is to gun battle it out with the robber in close quarters?

How do you know this person is approaching you only for your wallet? I lucked out that he didn't take violent action as you see so many times (as I'm sure you hear about being from St. Louis). I would rather not be in a shoot out of course, but I think if I was armed he wouldn't have continued to approach me in the first place.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[kelpdiver 2]

Bignugget

Now of course my solution is remove all the guns so the robber has a less likely chance of having one....

Since we're apparently in the land of unicorns, my "solution" is to ban bad people, who in your "solution" would just pick up baseball bats.

[Bignugget 0]

linebckr83

*********(I do like the irony of your post after telling me I must not travel a lot)

When did I say you dont travel? I asked, I didn't say you do not travel. That's not irony.

What would you do then, in an unfamiliar very large city, running on low fuel and an extremely busy interstate? Yea yea I get it, you wouldn't get low on fuel in an unknown city, etc etc. Typical skydiver mentality, it'll never happen to me because I wouldn't be there in the first place. Shit does happen sometimes. No one can be 100% prepared all the time, including you.

Wendy I'm glad you've never been somewhere that makes you uncomfortable. I can't say the same, and having a gun pulled on you while you hand over your wallet is a pretty uncomfortable position.


And a better solution to that is a gun battle?

Instead of just handing over the wallet?


Now of course my solution is remove all the guns so the robber has a less likely chance of having one....

Yours is to gun battle it out with the robber in close quarters?

How do you know this person is approaching you only for your wallet? I lucked out that he didn't take violent action as you see so many times (as I'm sure you hear about being from St. Louis). I would rather not be in a shoot out of course, but I think if I was armed he wouldn't have continued to approach me in the first place.


I have no idea why he would be approaching me.

Just like you had no idea why he was approaching you.

Turns out he approached you to rob you.....at which point there is no distance.....unless you are like Normiss and plan to just pull your gun out anytime someone starts walking towards you.

You are right in that the vast majority of people won't continue walking in the direction of a person who randomly pulls a gun out and starts brandishing it.

[rushmc 18]

Bignugget

You are right in that the vast majority of people won't continue walking in the direction of a person who randomly pulls a gun out and starts brandishing it.

Hmm
Sounds like you have tried this

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[turtlespeed 212]

rushmc

***
You are right in that the vast majority of people won't continue walking in the direction of a person who randomly pulls a gun out and starts brandishing it.

Hmm
Sounds like you have tried this

Of course! You know he only speaks from personally gained experience.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[linebckr83 3]

Bignugget

I have no idea why he would be approaching me.

Just like you had no idea why he was approaching you.

Turns out he approached you to rob you.....at which point there is no distance.....unless you are like Normiss and plan to just pull your gun out anytime someone starts walking towards you.

You are right in that the vast majority of people won't continue walking in the direction of a person who randomly pulls a gun out and starts brandishing it.

I've noticed you like to generalize things. Do you think Normiss would pull his gun out at anyone approaching him? There's a big difference between thugs (who notoriously carry weapons and commit crimes) and a friendly neighbor or a small kid who is lost and cant find her mommy. Use some common sense here.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[wmw999 2,122]

I think one question is how does one go about identifying "thugs?" If it's by color and the presence of a hoodie and friends, then one is identifying lots of non-thugs as thugs, and likely over-reacting.

If it's by the presence of a drawn gun or knife, it's probably a little late

Somewhere in between is the line. Many minorities seem to feel they are prematurely identified as thugs, simply based on their minority status. I have a feeling they're correct -- people who don't hang around those neighborhoods regularly tend to think that everyone who's there is a thug. They aren't.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Bignugget 0]

linebckr83

***
I have no idea why he would be approaching me.

Just like you had no idea why he was approaching you.

Turns out he approached you to rob you.....at which point there is no distance.....unless you are like Normiss and plan to just pull your gun out anytime someone starts walking towards you.

You are right in that the vast majority of people won't continue walking in the direction of a person who randomly pulls a gun out and starts brandishing it.

I've noticed you like to generalize things. Do you think Normiss would pull his gun out at anyone approaching him? There's a big difference between thugs (who notoriously carry weapons and commit crimes) and a friendly neighbor or a small kid who is lost and cant find her mommy. Use some common sense here.

What does the "thug" group do differently than the "non-thug" group?

How do you, as an unfamiliar visitor, determine the "thug" and "non-thug" group? None of the groups are going to be familiar to you in appearance, composition, behavior, attitude, etc.

I think some people are generalizing for sure.

My point is that you had no idea the guy coming to rob you was going to do that.....

..or you would have ran away.....or killed/scared/shot/threatened him if you had your gun while he was still far away.

So I fail to see how you being armed helps you unless you are prepared to just pull the gun out any time someone starts to approach you that seems unfamiliar, or you plan to engage in close quarters combat with guns.

[rushmc 18]

Bignugget

******
I have no idea why he would be approaching me.

Just like you had no idea why he was approaching you.

Turns out he approached you to rob you.....at which point there is no distance.....unless you are like Normiss and plan to just pull your gun out anytime someone starts walking towards you.

You are right in that the vast majority of people won't continue walking in the direction of a person who randomly pulls a gun out and starts brandishing it.

I've noticed you like to generalize things. Do you think Normiss would pull his gun out at anyone approaching him? There's a big difference between thugs (who notoriously carry weapons and commit crimes) and a friendly neighbor or a small kid who is lost and cant find her mommy. Use some common sense here.

What does the "thug" group do differently than the "non-thug" group?

How do you, as an unfamiliar visitor, determine the "thug" and "non-thug" group? None of the groups are going to be familiar to you in appearance, composition, behavior, attitude, etc.

I think some people are generalizing for sure.

My point is that you had no idea the guy coming to rob you was going to do that.....

..or you would have ran away.....or killed/scared/shot/threatened him if you had your gun while he was still far away.

So I fail to see how you being armed helps you unless you are prepared to just pull the gun out any time someone starts to approach you that seems unfamiliar, or you plan to engage in close quarters combat with guns.

Are you from earth?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,122]

Actually, I think he's saying exactly what I was, using more confrontational language.

I believe I'm from earth

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[normiss 622]

I let my reserve tank run dry!

Them old trucks don't have the bells and whistles.
No 'you're gonna walk' light either.

[rushmc 18]

wmw999

Actually, I think he's saying exactly what I was, using more confrontational language.

I believe I'm from earth

Wendy P.

Saying what exactly?

I gave my experience up thread
I can tell you for a fact they were not coming over to me to clean my windshield!!!!

Instincts are something to grow
Rarely do they fail you

And a person can post hypotheticals and the like until the other side gets tired of it

Dont change nothin

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

wmw999

.

I believe I'm from earth

Wendy P.

BTW

Angels are from heaven

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

Friendly people tend to not surround you when they come in close for a friendly weather discussion.

You make it sound like it's not normal to pull your gun out when someone walk towards you.
Just the other day some dude came up to me for a handout.
I was lucky to get my weapon out in time.
You know, living in the gun totin' south, it would be rude to not brandish a weapon.


On a serious note, I'm not an idiot no matter how much effort you expend trying to paint me as one.

I'm sorry your mommy told you guns were scary and you should tuck tail, run home crying, and call the po-po to save your sorry ass.

With that, I'm done with gun talk.

I know my rights and I know a pretty decent amount about guns and being responsible with them.
I am however, just as human as the next guy.

Have a nice day folks, I think I'll have a beer.

[rehmwa 2]

normiss

Have a nice day folks, I think I'll have a beer.

I believe you meant to say - "I think I'll shoot a beer"

honest mistake

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 622]

I thought I was supposed to shoot defenseless thugs who are out surrounding people for friendly chats. Only to then hand over my wallet.
Dammit now I'm really confused.

I wonder if I should carry a gun to go to the store.....



Nah, time for a Stella.

[Bignugget 0]

wmw999

Actually, I think he's saying exactly what I was, using more confrontational language.

I believe I'm from earth

Wendy P.

I'm just not a rocket scientist.

[rehmwa 2]

normiss

Nah, time for a Stella.

I'll warn her

blues

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[GeorgiaDon 340]

linebckr83

***

Quote

This is not a safe world at times.
Prepare accordingly.

Like don't run out of gas in the worst part of town?

In Canada we learn that lesson a different way: don't run out of gas when stuck in a snow storm.

Have you ever left your home town? Say, maybe to travel? How the fuck do you know what "the worst part of town" is when you've never been there. Stay home on your couch, it's safe there.FWIW Ottawa, Canada just recorded it's 8th murder of the year. Metropolitan Ottawa has a population of 1.2 million people. Can you name any US city of similar size that has had only 8 murders so far this year? I'm pretty sure we've had more than that in the city where I live, and that has barely 100,000 people. WTF is so different in the states, that they like to kill each other so much?

Ottawa has several big music festivals every summer: a blues festival, a carribean festival, folk, jazz, all kinds of music. Crowds of people downtown, having fun, at 1 in the morning or later. No violence, no fear, no need to arm yourself. Yet we are told that Canadians are not free, because they don't have the 2nd amendment. I doubt that most Canadians would trade their situation for the American version.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[linebckr83 3]

A friend of mine studied German all through high school and college and finally got a chance to travel there for a month. He said the streets are a completely different feel. No fear or anxiety, almost everyone is friendly. That'd be a great thing and I wish it was the same here. I just don't think banning guns is the answer to it.

Someone upthread ( I think SkyDekker) mentioned it being a society issue and I agree. I have no idea how to fix it, nor does anyone else it seems like.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

A friend of mine studied German all through high school and college and finally got a chance to travel there for a month. He said the streets are a completely different feel. No fear or anxiety, almost everyone is friendly. That'd be a great thing and I wish it was the same here. I just don't think banning guns is the answer to it.

Someone upthread ( I think SkyDekker) mentioned it being a society issue and I agree. I have no idea how to fix it, nor does anyone else it seems like.

We've discussed this from time to time here in SC, where we routinely solve all the world's problems; the problem is the world doesn't listen.

There are societal issues at play for sure. Easy access to guns, combined with those issues, makes for a toxic brew. Unfortunately there is no easy fix, no way to turn back the clock. There are so many guns out there now, any effort to ban them would just disarm the law abiding. Even efforts to address the societal ills run into conflict with deeply held values of many Americans. Any expenditure of tax dollars on programs to divert kids from a life of crime run head first into anti-tax "let them pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" zealotry. Our predominant system of school funding is programmed for failure: making schools dependent on local property taxes ensures that schools in poor neighborhoods struggle to provide the minimum level of quality, while schools in well-off neighborhoods have resources to cater to every interest. Yet, efforts to take money from rich districts to improve schools in poor districts is fought as "socialism". Even our war on drugs exacerbates the problem it was designed to solve, by ensuring that so many kids grow up in fatherless households.

The vast majority of Americans that I have met are generous, considerate, genuinely good people. It seems strange to me, then, that they have built a society that seems so founded on selfish self-interest, where every dime invested in helping actual people to achieve their best potential is resented bitterly. What do I mean by that? As an example, every penny spent on after-school and summer recreational activities for kids is fought against, despite abundant evidence that kids hanging around with nothing to do tend to get into trouble. Then we have to spend twice as much for courts and juvenile detention facilities, but that is funded without a bat of an eye.

This country could be different, if we regarded that kid in a hoodie as a potential doctor instead of as a thug. In my dreams, I guess.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Bignugget 0]

GeorgiaDon

Quote

A friend of mine studied German all through high school and college and finally got a chance to travel there for a month. He said the streets are a completely different feel. No fear or anxiety, almost everyone is friendly. That'd be a great thing and I wish it was the same here. I just don't think banning guns is the answer to it.

Someone upthread ( I think SkyDekker) mentioned it being a society issue and I agree. I have no idea how to fix it, nor does anyone else it seems like.

We've discussed this from time to time here in SC, where we routinely solve all the world's problems; the problem is the world doesn't listen.

There are societal issues at play for sure. Easy access to guns, combined with those issues, makes for a toxic brew. Unfortunately there is no easy fix, no way to turn back the clock. There are so many guns out there now, any effort to ban them would just disarm the law abiding. Even efforts to address the societal ills run into conflict with deeply held values of many Americans. Any expenditure of tax dollars on programs to divert kids from a life of crime run head first into anti-tax "let them pull themselves up by their own bootstraps" zealotry. Our predominant system of school funding is programmed for failure: making schools dependent on local property taxes ensures that schools in poor neighborhoods struggle to provide the minimum level of quality, while schools in well-off neighborhoods have resources to cater to every interest. Yet, efforts to take money from rich districts to improve schools in poor districts is fought as "socialism". Even our war on drugs exacerbates the problem it was designed to solve, by ensuring that so many kids grow up in fatherless households.

The vast majority of Americans that I have met are generous, considerate, genuinely good people. It seems strange to me, then, that they have built a society that seems so founded on selfish self-interest, where every dime invested in helping actual people to achieve their best potential is resented bitterly. What do I mean by that? As an example, every penny spent on after-school and summer recreational activities for kids is fought against, despite abundant evidence that kids hanging around with nothing to do tend to get into trouble. Then we have to spend twice as much for courts and juvenile detention facilities, but that is funded without a bat of an eye.

This country could be different, if we regarded that kid in a hoodie as a potential doctor instead of as a thug. In my dreams, I guess.

Don

You motherfuckin' commie socialist bastard. Why don't you move to Uzbekibekibekistan where that kind of nonsense is embraced.