I Really Hope the news is Wrong...

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Not gaining socialization with peers is not a good thing.

I 100% agree.

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If they are at home they're not getting socialized with their peers.

Nope. Wrong, again. Look, it doesn't matter how many times you ignore the fact that homeschooling can be, and often is, done in a group - it's still the way it is.

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If they are in school they're getting socialized.

Definitely. As are they in homeschool, at extra curricular activities (gymnastics in our case), kids at the dropzone, with the other neighborhood kids, and (in our case) as they travel the world with us (insert shock and awe here).

I honestly think you have this *idea* in your head of what homeschooling is, and you just cannot conceive that it's often something very different. I also acknowledge that there are homeschoolers who isolate their children from the world, and don't educate them properly, or give them misinformation. Again, education system doesn't dictate good or bad parenting.

In the end if you fell all homeschooling is that way, that's fine (although misguided IMO) - I'm going to continue to do what I think is best for my children, just like one day when you're a parent I'm sure you'll do for yours.

Ian

Also, taking vacations with other families whose kids are in elementary school when elementary or high school is on vacation has no bearing on this discussion. We're talking socialization in a classroom at school vs. on the sofa at home. My kids would trounce any home schooler- they're getting invited to do TS work and their not even out of college yet. Honors, top of the class and nearly perfect scores on test- Horrah for public education!

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Also, taking vacations with other families whose kids are in elementary school when elementary or high school is on vacation has no bearing on this discussion.

Huh? I never claimed to vacation with other families. I did say that we augment socializing with immersing our child in other cultures (as much as one can for a few weeks at a time). This includes playing with, and spending time with, children from all over the world.

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We're talking socialization in a classroom at school vs. on the sofa at home

There's your problem! You don't understand homeschooling no matter how many times it's explained.

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My kids would trounce any home schooler

You realize Albert Einstein was homeschooled, right? That's a pretty lofty claim.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

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Also, taking vacations with other families whose kids are in elementary school when elementary or high school is on vacation has no bearing on this discussion.

Huh? I never claimed to vacation with other families. I did say that we augment socializing with immersing our child in other cultures (as much as one can for a few weeks at a time). This includes playing with, and spending time with, children from all over the world.

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We're talking socialization in a classroom at school vs. on the sofa at home

There's your problem! You don't understand homeschooling no matter how many times it's explained.

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My kids would trounce any home schooler

You realize Albert Einstein was homeschooled, right? That's a pretty lofty claim.

Ian

We started our kids a year later too as Einstein's parents did, or what happened, as that gave our kids an edge. But Einstein was not home schooled. He was smarter than his parents and thus needed advanced education that SCHOOLS PROVIDED.

No wonder we have problems: its the PARENTS!
Can you teach your precocious ten year old oxidation reduction problems, calc? If they need taught that if they're so bright? If not, what are you going to do, HOLD THEM BACK, just because you don't want them in a class room. So you are planning on not haveing gifted kids? The idea you think home schooling will produce Einstiens you're pretty naive.

Here info on Albert:

He attended traditional schools for most of his young life. The only 2 exceptions are:

1. He did not attend school until he was 6 1/2, at which point he started in 2nd grade.
2. When he was 15, he left school on December 29 to join his parents who had moved away in June. He started attending school again on October 26 of the following year.

THIS DOES NOT CONSTITUTE HOMESCHOOLING of Einstein.

[ianmdrennan 2]

*sigh*

Again, PLEASE try reading. Then try comprehending.

I'm not saying homeschoolers are going to be Albert Einstein. I used him as an example that there are plenty of successful people who were homeschooled.

I'm beginning to think that you are totally incapable of seeing anything than your point of view. Your anger on this issue (no idea why you're so aggressive about it) clouds your ability to reason. All it does is make you look more and more foolish.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

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He wasn't home schooled. He's not an example of a successful person who was home schooled.

Have any real examples?

[ianmdrennan 2]

A simple google search is your friend since I'm sure your definition of successful is different to mine.

However, a recent notable influential person: Condoleeza Rice. Homeschooled until 10 yrs old.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

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A simple google search is your friend since I'm sure your definition of successful is different to mine.



Ian

You must be all over this forum posting notes that you are loosing track of your conversations. You mentioned Einstein as and example of a successful person who was homeschooled. Fact of the matter is: he WASN"T HOME SCHOOLED.

So much for being a home school teacher who tries to make a point using a bogus illustration.

So good, now you've offered one. But most successful people had formal education.

[ianmdrennan 2]

You've made it quite clear that it doesn't matter what's presented to you, that you'll never change your mind. Why would I keep feeding into that?

You really come off as one angry individual.

Sounds like we're lucky you aren't homeschooling the kids

Personally, I don't get the hate, but whatever. I'm going to keep doing what I think is best for my kids. No matter how much it upsets you

Performance Designs Factory Team

[billvon 2,400]

> they are not with their peers in a structured class room environment

I think either you have an overly inflated view of how structured classroom environments are or an overly pessimistic view of how chaotic typical home environments are.

>But the more they are sheltered, once they learn how they were sheltered: you're the enemy.

Yep. And if you don't let them use the car, you're the enemy. And if you don't give them money, like all their friend's parents do, you're the enemy. And if you don't let them drink like all their friends do, you're the enemy. Often, though, you have to choose being a parent over being their friend.

[Stumpy 256]

One simple Google search came up with:
Abraham Lincoln
Venus and Serena Williams
Andrew Carnegie
Booker T. Washington
Woodrow Wilson
Joseph Priestly
Julian Assange
Thomas Edison
Whoopi Goldberg
Margaret Atwood
Frank Lloyd Wright
Tim Tebow
Erwin Schrodinger
C S Lewis
Condoleeza Rice
Jennifer Love Hewitt

Sure morst successful people have had a formal education. But then, so have most unsuccessful people. Its Most people full stop, so obviously there is going to be more formally educated people in any category. I'm inferring that may be hard for you to grasp.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

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Change the subject when discovered you were wrong.
I'm laughing.
No anger here.

Bye

[Stumpy 256]

Found a few more because I was interested
(some will be duplicates, couldn't be bothered to take them out of the list.)
PRESIDENTS-
George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Quincy Adams, Abraham Lincoln, William Henry Harrison, Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin D Roosevelt
FAMOUS WOMEN-
Abigail Adams, Mercy Warren, Martha Washington, Forence Nightingale, Phyllis Wheatley, Agatha Christie, Pearl S. Buck
GENERALS-
"Stonewall" Jackson, Robert E. Lee, Douglas MacArthur, George Patton
ARTISTS-
John Singleton Copley, Andrew Wyeth, Rembrandt Peale, Claude Monet, Ansel Adams
AUTHORS-
Mark Twain, George Bernard Shaw, Irving Berlin, Charles Dickens, C.S. Lewis
COMPOSERS-
Anton Bruckner, Felix Mendelssohn, Amadeus Mozart, Francis Poulenc
PREACHERS & MISSIONARIES-
John & Charles Wesley, John Owen, Jonathan Edwards, William Carey, Dwight L. Moody, John Newton, Hudson Taylor
CHIEF JUSTICES U.S. SUPREME COURT-
John Rutledge, John Jay, John Marshall
DIVERSELY TALENTED-
Blaise Pascal, Booker T. Washington, Thomas Edison,Benjamin Franklin,Andrew Carnegie, John Stuart Mill

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[ianmdrennan 2]

Well, since we're talking facts:

It appears Albert Einstein was actually homeschooled. Not his entire career, but he was homeschooled nonetheless for a period of his academia (just under 1 year I believe from what I can find)

Now, I suppose we could start discussing what period of time defines "Homeschooling" but I don't recall any criteria being laid out.

I'd also like to remind you that this entire discussion came out because YOU decided that homeschooling was the reason (or largely so) for the shooter in CT's actions. Just because you don't like the data that doesn't support your position, doesn't make it inaccurate.

Toodles,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

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Sure morst successful people have had a formal education.

I agree.

[kallend 1,625]

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Well, since we're talking facts:

It appears Albert Einstein was actually homeschooled. Not his entire career, but he was homeschooled nonetheless for a period of his academia (just under 1 year I believe from what I can find)

Now, I suppose we could start discussing what period of time defines "Homeschooling" but I don't recall any criteria being laid out.

I'd also like to remind you that this entire discussion came out because YOU decided that homeschooling was the reason (or largely so) for the shooter in CT's actions. Just because you don't like the data that doesn't support your position, doesn't make it inaccurate.

Toodles,
Ian

I teach hundreds of college kids every year, and I've been doing it for 35 years. That's a lot of kids through my classrooms.

My experience is that homeschooled kids are generally very well prepared academically for STEM majors. It is also my experience that they have poorer social and coping skills than kids who attended regular schools. Obviously these are general observations, and there are exceptions in bith directions. All the differences are erased by the end of the freshman year.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Well, since we're talking facts:

I've always talked facts.

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It appears Albert Einstein was actually homeschooled. Not his entire career, but he was homeschooled nonetheless for a period of his academia (just under 1 year I believe from what I can find)

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So you do no research to learn facts, yet provide illustrations attempting to prove your point? I think it's better to conduct the research first. We don't know what he was doing in the brief time he was not in school but less than a year is hardly home schooling. I think you'd agree: homeschooling kids means more than a year, two three etc.

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Now, I suppose we could start discussing what period of time defines "Homeschooling" but I don't recall any criteria being laid out.

Too late: that should have been done first, but I thought you knew what was meant by home schooling: NOT IN THE CLASS ROOM. From your definition we are all home schooled if not in a school?.

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I'd also like to remind you that this entire discussion came out because YOU decided that homeschooling was the reason (or largely so) for the shooter in CT's actions.

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It was reported tonight that he got much support in the time he was in school. In fact they had a huge support group at the school he didn't have while at home. HUGE POINT YOU ARE MISSING. It was also reported that mom bought guns to get him out to meet people if you can believe it. A friend of the mom reported that. But too late for her. Yea, the kid needed socialization which he didn't get from an over protected mom when the kid was young.

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Just because you don't like the data that doesn't support your position, doesn't make it inaccurate.

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I have absolutely no idea what data you are refering to. But I'll tell you this, if you are home schooling kids, better get them in formal education as the data suggests: formal education= higher success rate: if not then we'd all be homeschooling kids! Ta Ta! and Good Luck being the main man you're kids will ever have to answer to and god forbid you'll get the brunt of repercussions you're setting yourself up to get, not Ms Teach at school etc.

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It is also my experience that they have poorer social and coping skills than kids who attended regular schools.

[ianmdrennan 2]

Hi John,

Thanks for the informed first hand observations. I was hoping you'd weigh in with your experiences. It's a welcome change from some of the well.....ignorant opinions some others expressed

I was happy to see this though

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All the differences are erased by the end of the freshman year.

That's good to know. Hopefully we're taking the right steps to make sure these aren't an issue later in life to begin with, but like most parent's we're just doing the best we can
Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[kelpdiver 2]

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I'd also like to remind you that this entire discussion came out because YOU decided that homeschooling was the reason (or largely so) for the shooter in CT's actions. Just because you don't like the data that doesn't support your position, doesn't make it inaccurate.

For the small sample size we have, we know that most school shooters are not home schooled, but teens that attend the school in question. Seems like a hard argument to make that home schooling lead him to lash out at the school. Probably need a sample size bigger than one to get some traction.

Given the huge quality range of elementary schools, it's pretty easy to make an argument for home schooling K-8. I had some great teachers in that stretch, and a couple years where I could have missed the entire school year and been no worse off.

At the high school level I think it depends on the parents and the resources (time and money) they have. I suspect it would be ideal for the teens to have social settings within the church or other local community organizations (sports teams, for ex) for it to work best.

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Given the huge quality range of elementary schools, it's pretty easy to make an argument for home schooling K-8.

yeah, I can definitely agree with that. I'm not sure if we want, or are, going to pursue homeschooling much past that - but that is SO many years from now it seems silly to plan that as life changes so much.

My *hope* is to give my children a good head start with the education philosophies we believe in (we're not a fan of the current draconian 3 yr olds get homework trend). But rather we work at fostering a genuine interest in learning, and wanting to learn so that education isn't seen as a chore, or a burden as life goes on.

Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

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I suspect it would be ideal for the tto have social settings within the church or other local community organizations (sports teams, for ex) for it to work best.

Come on Ian, tell Kelpie how you feel about church social settings working best for ya.
This selectively editing quotes out of an entire post to support what you say is, well, selective.

And since when do 3 year olds get assigned home work? States require they be at least 5 and many don't start until 6 years old, and I don't remember our kids getting a lot of homework at that age.. I take it you are just inquiring what might be best for your kids as they're pretty young yet. The person that told you your kids have to start at 3 and do a lot of home work is pulling your leg.

Perhaps no need for homeschooling after all. And parenting between one day and 5 years is not considered homescholing etiher as when you do finally do homescholing you'll be under the advisment of the school and have to adhere to rules, in what you must teach.

True, Cho Hui went to school. He made it to senior in college when he did his murders a VT. It was school officials that learned about his mental problems and helped to support him with his illness. Hui would have never made it that far had he been alone, at home, isolated and I suspect taking his folks with him.

It was great having a lot of professional teachers eyes on our kids as they could spot any problems. Plus our kids got rewarded by all the wonderful interations of the fine teachers. Again, something not one parent can do at home. But I do agree many fine kids that are homeschooled make it Ok provided Parents teach not babysit.

OK, got to run...

[ianmdrennan 2]

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Come on Ian, tell Kelpie how you feel about church social settings working best for ya.

How about I tell you?

Personally, while I don't believe in the teachings of the Church, I don't shelter my children from them. In fact, I encourage discussion about religious beliefs, openly, among my family. I am secure enough, and not egotistical enough, to admit I don't have all the answers. Case in point, right now my daughter has taken to "Jesus". I'm not discouraging it at ALL. Instead I want to continue to expose my children to as many different religious philosophies as possible so that they may find their own path in life, not mine.

But please continue making your assumptions pretending you know anything all about me, my family, or the way we interact.

Edit: I should probably add that I'm not really interested in discussing anything with you anymore. You've made it perfectly clear you're just trying to get a rise out of me regardless of what I say - a power play I might add made easier by hiding anonymously behind the internet. Problem is it's gotten to a point where you're just wasting my time so I'll choose to spend it responding to those with something worthwhile, and intelligent to say.

Peace
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[Stumpy 256]

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Sure morst successful people have had a formal education.

I agree.

Thats the best you can do when someone proves you wrong?

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[kallend 1,625]

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Hi John,

Thanks for the informed first hand observations. I was hoping you'd weigh in with your experiences. It's a welcome change from some of the well.....ignorant opinions some others expressed

I was happy to see this though

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All the differences are erased by the end of the freshman year.

That's good to know. Hopefully we're taking the right steps to make sure these aren't an issue later in life to begin with, but like most parent's we're just doing the best we can
Blues,
Ian

My experience is also limited to STEM majors. I don't get many business, poli-sci or liberal arts types in my classes.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

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Hi John,

Thanks for the informed first hand observations. I was hoping you'd weigh in with your experiences. It's a welcome change from some of the well.....ignorant opinions some others expressed

I was happy to see this though

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All the differences are erased by the end of the freshman year.

That's good to know. Hopefully we're taking the right steps to make sure these aren't an issue later in life to begin with, but like most parent's we're just doing the best we can
Blues,
Ian

My experience is also limited to STEM majors. I don't get many business, poli-sci or liberal arts types in my classes.

John

What is/are STEM majors?

I am not familiar with that acronym

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln