rushmc 18 #26 December 12, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Perhaps the CCW permit holders were not personally threatened and given events like the Trayvon Martin incident, chose to flee rather than confront. Or maybe the mall has a no gun policy that made it a free kill zone for this nut I understand that Clackamas Town Center does, indeed, call itself a "gun free" zone and has a history of enforcing it. Maybe something tkhayes should have looked into before he made the OP"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #27 December 12, 2012 Might as well just call them "Sitting Duck Laws/Rules/Policies." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #28 December 12, 2012 QuoteMight as well just call them "Sitting Duck Laws/Rules/Policies."This is an example an issue where I have changed my mind, based largely on discussions here in Speaker's Corner. I used to be quite opposed to the idea of people carrying, but now I actually think it's the best option (given the prevailing circumstances) to have lots of trained law-abiding people able to take some action if circumstances permit. Somehow that makes me wonder whatever happened to John Rich, or mnealtx for that matter. Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #29 December 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteI have a problem with idiots owning guns You should turn in your firearms then... I think gun threads should be exempt from the usual Forum Rules. That way all the assholes can call people assholes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #30 December 12, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I have a problem with idiots owning guns You should turn in your firearms then... I think gun threads should be exempt from the usual Forum Rules. That way all the assholes can call people assholes. The real problem is idiots who think they have the right to define who the idiots are"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #31 December 12, 2012 QuoteQuotePerhaps the CCW permit holders were not personally threatened and given events like the Trayvon Martin incident, chose to flee rather than confront. Your comparing an unarmed teenager walking home with a man on a shooting rampage in a mall? All the CCW's were fleeing way before Trayvon Martin. You guys have all seen one too many John Wayne movies, Funny how all of you would be Paul Kersey's lose your Machismo when the rubber meets the road. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #32 December 12, 2012 Another example of your complete inability to understand the point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #33 December 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteAnother example of your complete inability to understand the point. Perhaps when you have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
christelsabine 1 #34 December 12, 2012 Quote Quote Quote I have a problem with idiots owning guns You should turn in your firearms then... Best one I've read in a long time. Oh look! The holy "counselor" is nothing more than a little nasty dude .... Nice one, man dudeist skydiver # 3105 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #35 December 12, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote I have a problem with idiots owning guns You should turn in your firearms then... Best one I've read in a long time. Oh look! The holy "counselor" is nothing more than a little nasty dude .... Nice one, man and now a ditto!"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #36 December 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteAnother example of your complete inability to understand the point. Perhaps when you have one. And another example. Care to try for the daily trifecta? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,155 #37 December 12, 2012 QuoteBut I know, I know - we don't have a gun problem.... I don't think you have a gun problem. I think you have a violence problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #38 December 12, 2012 Quote Oregon is a concealed state right? Where were all the carrying people and why did they let this happen? I mean 147000 permits in Oregon and 2.8M people, that is just over 5%. If there was 1000 adults at the mall, then probably 50 of them had guns. It's a bit of a leap to expect the mall population to mirror the state wide population in terms of CCWs, and then to expect all CCW holders to carry at all times. And then it's a bigger leap where you made up the 1000, and presumed that those 50 were cornered by the gunman. If I'm in such a situation, I'm looking to the nearest exit out of view, or failing that, a dead end with a narrow entrance that can be defended. And of course, baring an error, Lawrocket has confirmed that this is a no carry mall, so perhaps those 50 people respected private property rights. but later, you bleat "I have a problem with idiots owning guns and untrained idiots owning guns " So make up your mind already - are you complaining that these guys didn't take action, or that they tend to stupidly take action? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #39 December 12, 2012 QuoteYou guys have all seen one too many John Wayne movies, Funny how all of you would be Paul Kersey's lose your Machismo when the rubber meets the road. It's pretty interesting again. Common thread to the Subway stuff - people always think they would act a certain way. Then people don't. Kinda like the whole Subway thing. People think they'd be all heroic but they end up just watching. Still, it's a thought that a person could have fired back. instead, as was written in an article about it, "I figure if he's shooting a gun, he's gonna run out of bullets," DeCosta said, "and I'm gonna take him." My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #40 December 12, 2012 Quote Quote But I know, I know - we don't have a gun problem.... I don't think you have a gun problem. I think you have a violence problem. Yup Look at Michigan for instance as well. I believe in the video, the guy mentioned having a gun . . .But . . . wasn't he supposed to be a liberal?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #41 December 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteYou guys have all seen one too many John Wayne movies, Funny how all of you would be Paul Kersey's lose your Machismo when the rubber meets the road. It's pretty interesting again. Common thread to the Subway stuff - people always think they would act a certain way. Then people don't. Kinda like the whole Subway thing. People think they'd be all heroic but they end up just watching. Still, it's a thought that a person could have fired back. instead, as was written in an article about it, "I figure if he's shooting a gun, he's gonna run out of bullets," DeCosta said, "and I'm gonna take him." Since it would have been unlawful for anyone to have a firearm in that particular mall, it would be very unlikely that if someone had fired back, there wouldn't be legal hell to pay.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
regulator 0 #42 December 12, 2012 The suspect, wearing a hockey-style mask, opened fire with an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle that he had stolen from a person he knew, Clackamas County Sheriff Craig Roberts said at a morning news conference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #43 December 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteYou guys have all seen one too many John Wayne movies, Funny how all of you would be Paul Kersey's lose your Machismo when the rubber meets the road. It's pretty interesting again. Common thread to the Subway stuff - people always think they would act a certain way. Then people don't. Kinda like the whole Subway thing. People think they'd be all heroic but they end up just watching. Still, it's a thought that a person could have fired back. instead, as was written in an article about it, "I figure if he's shooting a gun, he's gonna run out of bullets," DeCosta said, "and I'm gonna take him." I think a persons first thought too being exposed too gun fire, would be too run as fast and as far away from the shooting as they could. Brandishing a weapon would just put a bulls eye on you, The "fog of war" is very real and trying to pick out the bad guy and the CCW guy could be a challenge. And all the while you have to worry about CCW's, police and and a loon capping you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #44 December 12, 2012 QuoteI think a persons first thought too being exposed too gun fire, would be too run as fast and as far away from the shooting as they could. History seems to demonstrate that a person's first reaction is to drop and then hide. Then the person starts thinking about what to do - which is usually to stay hidden and hope that the person is not seen because of the exposure to risk in attempting to flee - meaning being seen. What these shooters do is little more than conduct a raid - catching the targets off guard and defenseless. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #45 December 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuotePerhaps the CCW permit holders were not personally threatened and given events like the Trayvon Martin incident, chose to flee rather than confront. You guys have all seen one too many John Wayne movies, Funny how all of you would be Paul Kersey's lose your Machismo when the rubber meets the road. You haven't actually read what anyone has said in this thread, have you? You just skimmed over everything and thought you saw someone projecting machoism, didn't you? You didn't read where most of us stated that we would not draw our guns to protect anyone, did you? Don't you think you should read and understand what's being discussed before commenting? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #46 December 12, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Perhaps the CCW permit holders were not personally threatened and given events like the Trayvon Martin incident, chose to flee rather than confront. You guys have all seen one too many John Wayne movies, Funny how all of you would be Paul Kersey's lose your Machismo when the rubber meets the road. You haven't actually read what anyone has said in this thread, have you? You just skimmed over everything and thought you saw someone projecting machoism, didn't you? You didn't read where most of us stated that we would not draw our guns to protect anyone, did you? Don't you think you should read and understand what's being discussed before commenting? How dare you bring REASON into this. Verrry dissapointing.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,081 #47 December 12, 2012 Hi reg, I'm just replying to your post because you mention one of the things that are true, according to the news as of Noon today. He was a 22 year old guy who was dressed in body armor and a white hockey-style mask. He had mulitple magazines filled with bullets. He went into the mall directly to the Food Court and started shooting. Just before he entered the mall, he said to someone outside, "I am the shooter." Apparently, he also said this just before opening up. The AR-15 jammed and he ran into a mall store. Apparently, he got it unjammed and took his own life. According to local reports the mall is 1.4 million square feet and there were ~ 10,000 people inside at the time. The two killed were a 54 yr old nurse & a 45 yr old father of two. A 15 yr old girl is in Serious condition at a local hospital but she is expected to fully recover. Lots of talk locally but that is about the gist of it. JerryBaumchen PS) Some more info: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/12/12/faces-of-portland-shooting-victims-suspect-named/?hpt=hp_t1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 154 #48 December 14, 2012 latest news I read .... The mall itself claims there were 10,000 people there that day so up to 500 of those people could have had a CCW permit. So to say that NO ONE in the mall was carrying at the time of the shooting would almost certainly be absurd. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #49 December 14, 2012 latest news I read .... The mall itself claims there were 10,000 people there that day so up to 500 of those people could have had a CCW permit. So to say that NO ONE in the mall was carrying at the time of the shooting would almost certainly be absurd.*** I cant speak for everyone but I have my CCW permit for my state but I am not Rambo, only time I go to the mall is when i have my son with me, I can flat guarantee my first reaction will be to see to his safety - most likely it will be to put walls and/or whatever distance between him and the gunman that I can manage no matter if I am armed or not - my sons not leaving my side and if I open fire and dont drop the assailant I will attract return fire and place him in even more jeapordy. Plus I stand the risk of being mistaken for the gunman and being killed by someone else defending themselves and or families from the threat. I have my priorities set, my son is more important than anyone else in that mall. I will return fire when there isnt any other option I carry only to protect myself and loved ones - I hope with all my being that a day like this one we are discussing never becomes my nightmare - I have thought it over quite a lot actually since the best place to go shoot people is places that dont allow guns - malls make me extremely nervous to be there, but I would rather be armed in conflict with the law and keep the options my weapon gives me. RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #50 December 14, 2012 Quotelatest news I read .... The mall itself claims there were 10,000 people there that day so up to 500 of those people could have had a CCW permit. So to say that NO ONE in the mall was carrying at the time of the shooting would almost certainly be absurd. still disregarding Lawrocket's note about it being a no carry place, or did you see something that contradicts this? still disregarding that just because people may have been carrying, they didn't need to display or use them? Given the situation, having only 3 people shot is a much better outcome than might be predicted, no? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
