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QuoteAccording to a friend of mine who is a geological consultant here "It's less hydraulic fracturing and more wastewater/fluid injection that is likely to be causing increased earthquake activity in the States."
They have been trying to get fracking going here in South Africa too, but they are wanting to do so in and around the farm lands and the farmers and communities, as well as most of the public are against it. There were a few good locally produced investigative journalism programs which tackled this and exposed the companies involved lying about the risks.
If it wasn't a danger to underground water, then companies would not be spending so much trying to make it 'less dangerous'. Oil companies trying to be more eco-friendly is pretty much an admission than there are risks with what they are doing.
The risks are there, whether or not the negative impacts possible have been fully felt yet is another question, but it could happen and when it does it may well be too late.
I bet there are a large number of geologists getting some nice cash deposits from oil companies for saying it's safe though.
Good on SA for not allowing their air and water to be destroyed.
This is an international problem. Germany is close to banning fracking altogether as France already has done, in light of incidents like this
Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.
steve1 5
I guess I don't know a whole lot about oil fracking. I know that most people can no longer drink the well water in my area. The oil industry is responsible for causing that. They ruined the ground water here thirty years ago. Maybe technology has improved things, but I wonder if even that is true.
People in my community drink treated water from the Missouri River. Your tax dollars paid for that treatment plant and piping system. It cost millions of dollars. The ground water is contaminated here. This includes a large section of the Ft. Peck Indian Reservation to Culbertson and Baineville, as far North as Scobey.
I remember when the Alaska pipe line was new. Everyone was saying that it was 100% safe. After all data showed that they had never had a rupture or any problems shipping that crude. Then along comes the Exon Valdez disaster.
Frankly I don't trust most of what these oil company's are saying. They're out to make money....They've got a proven record of failure....
People in my community drink treated water from the Missouri River. Your tax dollars paid for that treatment plant and piping system. It cost millions of dollars. The ground water is contaminated here. This includes a large section of the Ft. Peck Indian Reservation to Culbertson and Baineville, as far North as Scobey.
I remember when the Alaska pipe line was new. Everyone was saying that it was 100% safe. After all data showed that they had never had a rupture or any problems shipping that crude. Then along comes the Exon Valdez disaster.
Frankly I don't trust most of what these oil company's are saying. They're out to make money....They've got a proven record of failure....
QuoteIf by fracking you mean high pressure waste water then yes. Fracking is when charges are set in the shale and I don't believe that process has been specifically linked to tremors. Maybe you can google that for me..
Fracturing is just one part of the mining process.
It's ridiculous to detach this step from the others. The process produces millions of gallons of waste water (per well). That waste water wouldn't exist otherwise, and we don't have giant resevoirs on the surface to contain it.
Unfortunately, given how badly the MTBE situation played out in California, I have a hard time believing assurances like "it will never end up in the water supply." The amount of fresh water on Earth is a dwindling resource; it's not by accident it was the 'gold' in the last 007 movie. We need to be more than sure we're not sabotaging it.
Quote
New technology created a new way to get oil that was previously too expensive to go after. This process is called "fracking". Chemicals, water, and sand are pumped under high pressure into the ground. This makes it easier to extract the oil.
I don't think it's about it getting cheaper. Rather, oil is now expensive enough to make this process profitable and it's been that way long enough now that oil engineers are getting a lot more experience with it, so knowledge is growing quickly. If it plays out remotely as optimistically as some believe, then we may be able to leave our dirty coal for more needy times in the 22nd century.
kallend 1,635
QuoteQuote
MW H2S = 34, MW oxygen = 32, MW nitrogen = 28
I don't think its MUCH heavier.
assuming 80/20% mix (which is wrong, and leaning towards the heavy end of the mix) it puts H2S just over 15% heavier than air. Enough for settling in still air.
Don't pick nits... you claim to be a man of science.
CO2 mw = 44, which is 34% heavier than air. Argon mass = 40. By your argument we should all suffocate just standing on the ground on a no-wind day
Clearly you are NOT a man of science....
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
rhaig 0
back to picking nits again.
it's true, you are the new dreamdancer aren't you.
no wait... you were always this bad.
it's true, you are the new dreamdancer aren't you.
no wait... you were always this bad.
--
Rob
Rob
kallend 1,635
rhaig 0
Quote
Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.
you want me to wear a dress, you have to buy me a few drinks first.
--
Rob
Rob
kallend 1,635
QuoteQuote
Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts.
you want me to wear a dress, you have to buy me a few drinks first.
A wingsuit comes close.
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
QuoteQuoteQuote
MW H2S = 34, MW oxygen = 32, MW nitrogen = 28
I don't think its MUCH heavier.
assuming 80/20% mix (which is wrong, and leaning towards the heavy end of the mix) it puts H2S just over 15% heavier than air. Enough for settling in still air.
Don't pick nits... you claim to be a man of science.
CO2 mw = 44, which is 34% heavier than air. Argon mass = 40. By your argument we should all suffocate just standing on the ground on a no-wind dayClearly you are NOT a man of science.
You missed your calling. You should have been a lawyer. You twisted his comment almost beyond all recognition.
As a reader, you may need to take some classes on comprehension and re-read his comment....hint: it includes the word "still". If you think no-wind on the ground is "still" air, then...hell, I don't know what to say that would help you see the light. Clearly, you enjoy posting really twisted stuff sometimes.
Just for grins, what's the mw of chocolate syrup?
Hey, Why not? It's just as relevant as your post!
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
kallend 1,635
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote
MW H2S = 34, MW oxygen = 32, MW nitrogen = 28
I don't think its MUCH heavier.
assuming 80/20% mix (which is wrong, and leaning towards the heavy end of the mix) it puts H2S just over 15% heavier than air. Enough for settling in still air.
Don't pick nits... you claim to be a man of science.
CO2 mw = 44, which is 34% heavier than air. Argon mass = 40. By your argument we should all suffocate just standing on the ground on a no-wind day
You missed your calling. You should have been a lawyer. You twisted his comment almost beyond all recognition.
As a reader, you may need to take some classes on comprehension and re-read his comment....hint: it includes the word "still". If you think no-wind on the ground is "still" air, then...hell, I don't know what to say that would help you see the light. Clearly, you enjoy posting really twisted stuff sometimes.
www.worldscibooks.com/phy_etextbook/3526/3526_chap1_1.pdf
Since you missed it the first time, GO AND READ IT AND EDUCATE YOURSELF. Even in "still" air the difference in mass is way too small to give any significant partition in the Earth's gravitational field.
If you want the short answer, ENTROPY beats gravity in gas mixtures unless the density differences are large, which they are not for oxygen, nitrogen, CO2, H2S, argon...
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
Airgump 1
back in '92 i went to work for a well service company. my first day on the work-over rig we were sent out to repair the casing on a "salt water" disposal well. they (the residents around the well site) had complaints about some chemicals seeping and making its way to the surface.
as we started work on the well, the channel 4 news chopper from OKC comes flying in and lands a few hundred yards from our work site and set up their cameras.
the whole obamanation went south from that minute onward. we had a tank with some fairly heavy mud loaded with barite ready to pump down the well bore to "kill" the well while we took off the wellhead and install the blowout preventer. we laid the wellhead aside, picked up the stack and the spool that should have bolted up to the flange of the well head but was the wrong size.
as we were reversing direction and setting the stack aside, and picking up the wellhead and first joint of tubing, we could see the mud level rising fairly quickly and bubbling like a rabid dog. we had the tubing made up and was lowering the wellhead into position when she "came to see us" (well started flowing). we a working in what we call the cellar. it's a concrete box about 4 or 5 foot square and about as deep around the well. in my time working in the oil fields i have seen my share of blowouts and wasn't too concerned. we unhooked the the winch from the wellhead and started to attempt to bolt the head back down.
by this time, she was really blowing good and strong. the bolts wouldn't make up because the well was flowing with more pressure than we could offset. no big deal, we usually take a chain and boomer wrap it around the wellhead and flange and suck in down into place. when i returned to the cellar the well's flow had filled the cellar completely full of really black nasty fluid and was starting to reach the surface. we turned to the pump crew to get them to start pumping on the wellhead to kill the well again, but those hands had run away. on our second attempt to tighten the boomer on the chain, my driller passed out and went under. i grabbed him and pulled his head and shoulders above the surface. as i was trying (unsuccessfully) to get my driller out of the cellar, our derrick hand also went down and another hand and i grabbed him as well. if it wasn't for a couple people that were standing a few yards from the well, we'd all have died in that little hole in the ground.
this was before cell phones so we had to get on the radio and try to get some help out there. it was roughly 20 minutes before the ambulances (3ea) showed up and loaded us all up and made the half hour drive to hospital. all of us were suffering from breathing problems and our capacities were diminished to various degrees. the news chopper beat us to hospital and when the ambulance doors opened there they were with cameras running. out we come flying two handed "screw you" gestures. (our family weren't even notified yet and these jerks are trying to flash our faces all over TV.
the solution in our work clothes ended up making almost everyone in the ER ill, and we were stripped down and the clothing was sacked up and thrown outside.
after a lengthy investigation by the state, it was determined that the casing integrity was compromised. that in itself was not enough to make us ill and was the primary reason for our being there. it was what this private owner had pumped down the "salt water only" well that damn near killed the lot of us. it was found that saltwater from some local H2S wells was pumped down it, as well as chemicals from an old air force base in burns flat, ok that the army corps of engineers disposed of illegally. the chemicals were what dissolved the pill that was pumped down to "kill" the well.
had those chemicals not been in the well, we would have had plenty of time to reverse our direction before blowing out. had the pump hands not run away and left us behind, we could have pumped another pill, even though the well was running like a new buick, we would have still managed to kill it before it got out of the cellar. had the army corps of engineers followed through on where their waste products was disposed of, those chemicals would be elsewhere and "all" we had to deal with would have been the H2S, which would have killed us almost as quickly.
as it turned out, myself and another hand were allowed to go home that evening after our blood gasses looked better, but the rest of my crew stayed overnight with two of them spending a couple days in hospital.
this incident is just as inexcusable as boeing's 747 cargo door's design and their efforts to fix the problem.
the well was killed by another crew and the well owner embarked on several years of legal battles for the damage he caused.
i tried to google this incident, but nothing much since it happened before the world wide web was invented by mr. gore. this is the only link i can find to support my claim against the army corps and such.
http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=19941474856FSupp618_11376.xml&docbase=CSLWAR2-1986-2006
the well owned by GW Harrel in Roger Mills county, Oklahoma was cemented and the surface was restored to green fields and farmland shortly after this incident by the state of oklahoma. i still feel like someone's steppin on my grave when i drive by that spot even today. just one of many brushes with the reaper that i came out on top.
as we started work on the well, the channel 4 news chopper from OKC comes flying in and lands a few hundred yards from our work site and set up their cameras.
the whole obamanation went south from that minute onward. we had a tank with some fairly heavy mud loaded with barite ready to pump down the well bore to "kill" the well while we took off the wellhead and install the blowout preventer. we laid the wellhead aside, picked up the stack and the spool that should have bolted up to the flange of the well head but was the wrong size.
as we were reversing direction and setting the stack aside, and picking up the wellhead and first joint of tubing, we could see the mud level rising fairly quickly and bubbling like a rabid dog. we had the tubing made up and was lowering the wellhead into position when she "came to see us" (well started flowing). we a working in what we call the cellar. it's a concrete box about 4 or 5 foot square and about as deep around the well. in my time working in the oil fields i have seen my share of blowouts and wasn't too concerned. we unhooked the the winch from the wellhead and started to attempt to bolt the head back down.
by this time, she was really blowing good and strong. the bolts wouldn't make up because the well was flowing with more pressure than we could offset. no big deal, we usually take a chain and boomer wrap it around the wellhead and flange and suck in down into place. when i returned to the cellar the well's flow had filled the cellar completely full of really black nasty fluid and was starting to reach the surface. we turned to the pump crew to get them to start pumping on the wellhead to kill the well again, but those hands had run away. on our second attempt to tighten the boomer on the chain, my driller passed out and went under. i grabbed him and pulled his head and shoulders above the surface. as i was trying (unsuccessfully) to get my driller out of the cellar, our derrick hand also went down and another hand and i grabbed him as well. if it wasn't for a couple people that were standing a few yards from the well, we'd all have died in that little hole in the ground.
this was before cell phones so we had to get on the radio and try to get some help out there. it was roughly 20 minutes before the ambulances (3ea) showed up and loaded us all up and made the half hour drive to hospital. all of us were suffering from breathing problems and our capacities were diminished to various degrees. the news chopper beat us to hospital and when the ambulance doors opened there they were with cameras running. out we come flying two handed "screw you" gestures. (our family weren't even notified yet and these jerks are trying to flash our faces all over TV.
the solution in our work clothes ended up making almost everyone in the ER ill, and we were stripped down and the clothing was sacked up and thrown outside.
after a lengthy investigation by the state, it was determined that the casing integrity was compromised. that in itself was not enough to make us ill and was the primary reason for our being there. it was what this private owner had pumped down the "salt water only" well that damn near killed the lot of us. it was found that saltwater from some local H2S wells was pumped down it, as well as chemicals from an old air force base in burns flat, ok that the army corps of engineers disposed of illegally. the chemicals were what dissolved the pill that was pumped down to "kill" the well.
had those chemicals not been in the well, we would have had plenty of time to reverse our direction before blowing out. had the pump hands not run away and left us behind, we could have pumped another pill, even though the well was running like a new buick, we would have still managed to kill it before it got out of the cellar. had the army corps of engineers followed through on where their waste products was disposed of, those chemicals would be elsewhere and "all" we had to deal with would have been the H2S, which would have killed us almost as quickly.
as it turned out, myself and another hand were allowed to go home that evening after our blood gasses looked better, but the rest of my crew stayed overnight with two of them spending a couple days in hospital.
this incident is just as inexcusable as boeing's 747 cargo door's design and their efforts to fix the problem.
the well was killed by another crew and the well owner embarked on several years of legal battles for the damage he caused.
i tried to google this incident, but nothing much since it happened before the world wide web was invented by mr. gore. this is the only link i can find to support my claim against the army corps and such.
http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=19941474856FSupp618_11376.xml&docbase=CSLWAR2-1986-2006
the well owned by GW Harrel in Roger Mills county, Oklahoma was cemented and the surface was restored to green fields and farmland shortly after this incident by the state of oklahoma. i still feel like someone's steppin on my grave when i drive by that spot even today. just one of many brushes with the reaper that i came out on top.
kallend 1,635
And these owners are the same people who oppose safety regulation!
...
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.
It was an independent study done with no funding from either side. It found that the isotopes in the methane in the water table were isotopes found in the shale, not the isotopes found in methane closer to the surface. How that gas ended up in the groundwater has not yet been determined. That particular study did not find that fracking fluids appeared in the groundwater.
Companies drill that close to a water supply often -- that's how the groundwater became polluted in Dimock, PA. The half-assed cement jobs that rwieder refers to are often to blame for such incidents.
See above.
It's pretty easy to figure out -- no matter how many legal or word games the energy companies' attorneys try to play. The water wasn't polluted with methane and benzene in Colorado, Wyoming or Pennsylvania before fracking began. It was there afterwards. In Louisiana too.
The stories are not made up -- they are stories of real experiences by real people. Watch Split Estate or Burning Water for additional perspectives.
The fact that gas companies have made record profits in recent years doesn't change the fact that many gas companies have destroyed well water supplies and have repeatedly attempted to wash their hands of it. That's what the controversy is about; it's far less about a green energy agenda. Energy companies need to be held accountable when they destroy peoples' air and water, period.
Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.
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