Is Some Homophobia Self-Phobia?

[Coreece 190]

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...but I'm more like a crazy gun-toting, tatted-up bible-thumping, headbangin' whigger from Detroit. I'm also bi-lingual, fluent in Ebonics...Does that turn you on?

Eminem, is that you? I'm usually not into racially confused guys in baggy pants but if he comes with a couple of millions, I'm eager to turn the blind eye.

Once you go whack, you never go back...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[masterrig 1]

You summed it up. It's all in our 'wiring'... our DNA. How we are as humans. We can in some respects control our behavior but our 'core', what is in our DNA, we have no control over. That includes our sexuality.


Chuck

[Marinus 0]

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There is also the idea of bi-sexuality that I think needs to be addressed. Could it be that many people just have a sexual attraction to both sexes and simply choose one side or the other? There are many men who say they are homosexual, but they still were able to have that emotional, physical and sexual attraction that allowed them the ability to be aroused by a woman, have sex and even raise a families.

I think human sexuality is a sliding scale from 100% heterosexual/0% homosexual to 0% heterosexual/100% homosexual. It depends on your reasoning how you categorize people. Personally I consider men who are predominately into men to be gay, even if they sometimes do get intimate with women. AFAICS most men are predominately hetero, 2-5% is predominately gay, and bisexuals are even more rare. Female (homo)sexuality works different, and is overall much more complex IMHO.

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There also seems to be so many different types of homosexuals...effeminate homosexuals, flamboyant homosexuals, extremely masculine homosexuals, and of course those like the ambiguously gay duo. Could it be that effeminate and flamboyant gays are the "true" homosexuals, and the masculine gays are simple bi-sexual? - I dunno, these are just some observations that I'm throwing out there to raise questions about their significance, if any...

Well there's only one type of homosexual, since the term homosexual refers to one specific behaviour. "Straight acting" is a rather stupid phrase to refer to gays who aren't obviously gay. To be straight acting you've to de the horizontal tango with your fag-hags or else you act gay. But I see what you mean. I think there's a correlation between male homosexuality and effeminate behaviour, but that's about it. Gays are on average more often effeminate than straights but there's a lot of masculine gays that are as gay as the most flamboyant queers. Also the different groups of gays aren't that well defined.

Bisexuals OTOH seem to be uber masculine without many exceptions.(personal observation)

[mnealtx 0]

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>Yep, but we are far less likely to ask for a special status.

Exactly. You never hear conservative Christians saying "the US was founded on Christian principles" or demanding, say, Christmas or Sundays off.

And you never hear atheists demanding removals of crosses or bible quotes that offend them.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,463]

>And you never hear atheists demanding removals of crosses or bible
>quotes that offend them.

I have indeed. Both sides do similar things.

[Marinus 0]

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You summed it up. It's all in our 'wiring'... our DNA.

Sexual orientation is definitely in our wiring. The brain of homosexuals is for a part wired as the brain of a female. Ironically this leads to the situation that homosexuals are more likely to understand women than straight males. You can bet God laughs His Holy ass off over that.

The gay-gene on the other hand..... The simple fact is that natural selection would lead to extinction of a gay-gene. While gays can procreate it's obvious that homosexuality doesn't exactly come in handy when in the whole survival of the fittest thingy. Some evidence suggest that homosexuality is coupled with high fertility in women. Gay males have on average more older brothers then straight males, so this could mean that the mother receives genetic advantage of the fertility genes that also cause homosexuality as a side effect.

Homosexuals are evolutionary collateral damage of high fertility in women as it were.

(I'm sure I'll be fined by the Gay Agenda over that one)

[billvon 2,463]

>The simple fact is that natural selection would lead to extinction of a gay-gene.

Unless there is a benefit to having that gene in our genome.

Sickle cell anemia is a terrible genetic disease. Why haven't we evolved it away? Because having just half of the genes for that disease mean that 1) you don't have the disease and 2) you are more immune to malaria. In some places that is a very big survival benefit.

There also may be societal benefits that accrue due to expression of non-reproductive forms. Bees are the ultimate example here - sterile workers make up most of the population of a hive. Evolution does not eliminate them because they support the fertile parts of the hive (queens/drones.) In human society, homosexuals may play a role in, overall, making the society more healthy and more likely to create and support children - and thus propagate the genes common to the people in that society.

[Marinus 0]

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If a male seeks sexual congress with another male it is not normal and natural.

Homosexuality is identified in numerous species of animals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

If that's not enough, there's the Bonobo which is a species consisting of hyper sexual bisexuals. About Bonobo sexuality:

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The bonobo is popularly known for its high levels of sexual behavior. Sex functions in conflict appeasement, affection, social status, excitement, and stress reduction. It occurs in virtually all partner combinations and in a variety of positions. This is a factor in the lower levels of aggression seen in the bonobo when compared to the common chimpanzee and other apes. Bonobos are perceived to be matriarchal: females tend to collectively dominate males by forming alliances and use sexuality to control males. A male's rank in the social hierarchy is often determined by his mother's rank.

Along with the common chimpanzee, the bonobo is the closest extant relative to humans.

But even if it is unnatural, what is the big problem? Our lifes consist of unnatural things

[jakee 1,271]

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If a male seeks sexual congress with another male it is not normal and natural. Such behavior requires a rational decision process.

Except if you're a homosexual, in which case it is and it doesn't.

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Now if a homosexual is truly born with abnormal and unnatural desires, isn't it the responsibility of society to help him get treatment?

You mean homosexual desires? Then no it isn't.

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Homosexuality tends to ruin professional careers when it is discovered.

But then the problem isn't with the homosexual, it's with fuckwits like you.

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Society is ready and willing to provide treatment for congenital birth defects, ADD and ADHD, autism, schizophrenia and other maladies. Why should homosexuality receive special exemption?

Because it's not harmful or a birth defect.

You don't think society should treat either the cause of your hallucinations or the reasons why you're such a gaping arsehole, and those are actual problems.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[masterrig 1]

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You summed it up. It's all in our 'wiring'... our DNA.

Sexual orientation is definitely in our wiring. The brain of homosexuals is for a part wired as the brain of a female. Ironically this leads to the situation that homosexuals are more likely to understand women than straight males. You can bet God laughs His Holy ass off over that.

The gay-gene on the other hand..... The simple fact is that natural selection would lead to extinction of a gay-gene. While gays can procreate it's obvious that homosexuality doesn't exactly come in handy when in the whole survival of the fittest thingy. Some evidence suggest that homosexuality is coupled with high fertility in women. Gay males have on average more older brothers then straight males, so this could mean that the mother receives genetic advantage of the fertility genes that also cause homosexuality as a side effect.

Homosexuals are evolutionary collateral damage of high fertility in women as it were.

(I'm sure I'll be fined by the Gay Agenda over that one)

I don't think the Gay Agenda will fine you for your opinion. I think, you made a very good point. True homosexuals are born and not a matter of choice. Somewhere along the line, during the formation of a child, something gets crossed-up and a 'girl' is born but shows all the traits of a boy or vice-versa. Genetics is an extremely fascinating thing. You cannot predict the results. What does matter is how we treat each other and accept differences in others.


Chuck

[Marinus 0]

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Unless there is a benefit to having that gene in our genome.

That's what I tried to explain: there's evidence that suggests that the more fertile women are the main "producers" of gay males. Of course a higher fertility in women is a huge advantage even if part of the offspring is de facto infertile. The so called "gay uncle theory" (gays as some sort of naturally produced nanny) is a bit to far-fetched I think, but there might be some truth in that. Even in modern societies gay males do tend to gravitate to jobs that involve caring for other people.

[Marinus 0]

Well Politic Correctness sort of forbids to even suggest that there might be anything wrong with gays. It's beyond me how anyone can keep trying to consistently knock up the wrong half of the population without thinking "Hey, it seems like something went wrong here" at some point. I think the anomaly isn't worth all the fuss some religious groups are making because of it. Yes, we don't procreate but as luck would have it we already have enough humans on this rock.

I think most homosexuals are what you refer to as true homosexuals. There's some anomaly in their early development and because of that they turn out gay. The hypothesis that the brain is partly female because of homosexual behaviour is not very likely, most homosexuals know it's not going to be bees and flowers for them long before they even know what homosexual behaviour (or any other sexual behaviour for that matter) is.
Homosexuality can have other causes like sexual abuse, but I believe this is rare. One interesting point is that females seem to be more likely to ignore their sexual orientation than males. For example, If a heterosexual opts to commit to a homosexual relation, it's usually a woman

Homosexuals aren't really boys in a girl's body or visa versa, but I think transgenderism is closely related to homosexuality. The way I see it, homosexuals are males and females with a hybrid male/female mind. I think the Native Americans weren't that far off with their "third gender" they referred to as two-spirits. (Which included everyone not straight, it seems non-straights were completely integrated in their societies, btw.)

[masterrig 1]

To me, trans-gender is where a highly feminine male, feels they would be better off changing their physical appearance to that of a female. It could go that way with highly masculine females.
I really believe, our ignorance and the placement of 'taboos' on sex in this country has caused a great deal of confusion among many people.
Also, it is our percievance of people who are 'different'. No matter what that may be. We tend to pre-judge and and set 'defenses'.
You referenced Native people of this country. They found a place in their society for homosexuals and were able to accept them.


Chuck

[RonD1120 58]

[email]

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If a male seeks sexual congress with another male it is not normal and natural.

Homosexuality is identified in numerous species of animals:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homosexual_behavior

If that's not enough, there's the Bonobo which is a species consisting of hyper sexual bisexuals. About Bonobo sexuality:

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The bonobo is popularly known for its high levels of sexual behavior. Sex functions in conflict appeasement, affection, social status, excitement, and stress reduction. It occurs in virtually all partner combinations and in a variety of positions. This is a factor in the lower levels of aggression seen in the bonobo when compared to the common chimpanzee and other apes. Bonobos are perceived to be matriarchal: females tend to collectively dominate males by forming alliances and use sexuality to control males. A male's rank in the social hierarchy is often determined by his mother's rank.

Along with the common chimpanzee, the bonobo is the closest extant relative to humans.

But even if it is unnatural, what is the big problem? Our lifes consist of unnatural things

I am only referring to humans who have the ability to choose when, where and with whom. In other words, humans have sexual control.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[shropshire 0]

But why does it matter to you (cuz boy it really seems to)?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[kelpdiver 2]

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Sure. But I don't see many consrvatives wanting laws passed that offer special protection for groups.

the recent fury over Catholic hospitals having to provide full medical care to its employees seems like an obvious counterexample to your claim.

[RonD1120 58]

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But why does it matter to you (cuz boy it really seems to)?

And I state once again, it does not matter to me what someone's sexual orientation is. They make their choices in life the same as everyone, including me.

I would just like to see queers take full responsibility for their behavior and quit claiming victimization and demanding special treatment.

Just man up...oh, I guess that is the root of the controversy.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[shropshire 0]

You still don't get it do you and calling them queer just reinforces your intolerance and discrimination... Nice work

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[skinnay 0]

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But why does it matter to you (cuz boy it really seems to)?

And I state once again, it does not matter to me what someone's sexual orientation is. They make their choices in life the same as everyone, including me.

I would just like to see queers take full responsibility for their behavior and quit claiming victimization and demanding special treatment.

Just man up...oh, I guess that is the root of the controversy.

Can you please clarify what exactly you would like the queers to do to "take responsibility"? Also what "actions" exactly are you referring too? Perhaps I can have some gay friends come to one of your bible study groups and do a song and dance for you, it would mean the world to them to have your forgiveness.

[billvon 2,463]

>it's with fuckwits like you.

Your one warning. If you can't avoid PA's do not post in this thread.

[Remster 24]

I hate gay men.

I was going to a gym in the village when we lived in Montreal (we lived at the edge of it) and these fuckers made me look so f'ing fat and out of shape. And not 1 hit on me!!!!

And I though there was a "bear" thing some of them would go for.

Fuckers. Way to mess with my self esteem.

Remster

[Marinus 0]

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Just man up...

I think it's time YOU man up. I can watch hardcore lesbian porn whilst eating fish without cringing, and yet I've to deal with loads of "manly" heterosexual men who turn to whiny bitches the moment they see two men kissing. Sure, you don't have to like it, but it's not the end of the world. Get over it, different people like different things. Some people like to eat semi-solidified rotten milk, AKA, cheese . I really don't get that, it's disgusting, and so I look the other way. I guess that's to hard for you?

[skinnay 0]

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Just man up...

I think it's time YOU man up. I can watch hardcore lesbian porn whilst eating fish without cringing, and yet I've to deal with loads of "manly" heterosexual men who turn to whiny bitches the moment they see two men kissing. Sure, you don't have to like it, but it's not the end of the world. Get over it, different people like different things. Some people like to eat semi-solidified rotten milk, AKA, cheese . I really don't get that, it's disgusting, and so I look the other way. I guess that's to hard for you?

Give it a shot Ron!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbGkxcY7YFU

[Marinus 0]

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I am only referring to humans who have the ability to choose when, where and with whom. In other words, humans have sexual control.

I can choose when, where and with whom. In other words I do have "sexual control", as you put it. I think the problem lies with people like you, who think I should do the other sex. Never mind the fact that I've little to offer to the other sex. It's not like you would betroth your daughter to me. And I won't "behave" (or "man up" as you put it) just because my default sexuality offends the likes of you. I don't consider that to be an extra bonus, but it sure is amusing.