Florida Teen Shot

[DaVinci 0]

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The racists have shot themselves in the foot.

Yes, a lot of black racists have jumped before looking on this one.

See, racism works BOTH ways.

[DaVinci 0]

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If the kid assaulted the man for simply following him, then that was itself an unprovoked, illegal and unjustified response

Not really. If he felt he was in danger, then his actions could be justified under the law.

[DaVinci 0]

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Yes like staging a peacefull walkout:

That is not the school Trayvon went to.... Not even the same State.

[jclalor 12]

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Explain how Jorges got a bloody nose, had grass stains on his back, a bump on the back of his head and a witness saw him on the ground with someone wearing a black hoodie on top of him.

If the child was walking lawfully home and he noticed he was being followed, and then confronted by an armed stranger, perhaps he was in fear of his life and attempted to defend himself.

[billeisele 122]

alright Coreeece, Jclalor, Lawrocket and others that are trying to bring reason to this discussion (purposefully excluding wlsc)

this is your only warning

don't confuse the issue with facts....it makes the discussion less colorful, makes it harder to speculate without looking like an idiot, and makes it especially difficult to twist/create facts to match a desired message/agenda

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[DaVinci 0]

And is the story about the two black 16 year olds lighting the 13 year old white kid also a racist crime?

[devildog 0]

Recent Orlando Sentinel article on the matter

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager

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Police have been reluctant to provided details about all their evidence, but this is what they've disclosed to the Sentinel:

Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community.

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

Zimmerman called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.

Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.

There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.

Several witnesses heard those cries, and there's been a dispute about from whom they came: Zimmerman or Trayvon.

Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.

One witnesses, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

Paramedics gave him first aid, but he said no to going to the hospital. He got medical care the next day.

The Department of Justice last week opened a civil rights investigation into what happened, and Gov. Rick Scott appointed a special prosecutor.

More at link. If Z's account is right, Trayvon was the aggressor and Z had every right to shoot -- especially getting his head repeatedly slammed into the concrete

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[rehmwa 2]

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Here's a list of what I think are legitimate concerns brought about by this case:

-A young man is dead and nobody knows why.

-People are concerned that anybody can just go out, start shit, get in a confrontation, kill someone and then get away with it based on self defense.

-People are concerned that others can just claim racism, make it a black and white issue, post an evil mean picture of the white guy, and cute old baby pictures of the black guy in an obvious attempt to appeal to public emotion, intensify racial tension and manipulate justice.

-People are concerned how this incident might negatively and unnecessarily affect gun laws.

-People are concerned how this case is being use to gain political clout and further various agendas.

This is a great list.

I think the first concern is the ONLY real concern. And all the rest are made up to push various agendas and will make resolving that first real one "A young man is dead and nobody knows why" a lot harder (or impossible) to resolve in a legal and fair fashion. A clear and legal resolution is what that young man, zimmerman, and the rest of society deserve.

anyone pushing on those other agendas clearly is willing to sacrifice justice for their personal biases - that's the president on down to the rest of the crowd and they fall on both sides of the 'preconceived' verdict line.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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That's my problem, Wendy. The shooter was, it seems, the attacker. The provoker. He provoked a confrontation, received a confrontation, then escalated to the use of deadly force.

I find that unacceptable.

I agree.

It would open up a great loophole for killing people though. Just follow them in the dark until they feel threatened, then shoot them in self defence.

I think this case will come down to a discussion on when an "incident" is started. If you purposely follow somebody who you think looks odd, without having witnessed a crime, aren't you the one creating the "incident"?

[jclalor 12]

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Recent Orlando Sentinel article on the matter

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-26/news/os-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-account-20120326_1_arizona-iced-tea-suv-unarmed-black-teenager

***Police have been reluctant to provided details about all their evidence, but this is what they've disclosed to the Sentinel:

Zimmerman was on his way to the grocery store when he spotted Trayvon walking through his gated community.

Trayvon was visiting his father's fiancée, who lived there. He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie. Miami schools have a zero-tolerance policy for drug possession.

Zimmerman called police and reported a suspicious person, describing Trayvon as black, acting strangely and perhaps on drugs.

Zimmerman got out of his SUV to follow Trayvon on foot. When a dispatch employee asked Zimmerman if he was following the 17-year-old, Zimmerman said yes. The dispatcher told Zimmerman he did not need to do that.

There is about a one-minute gap during which police say they're not sure what happened.

Zimmerman told them he lost sight of Trayvon and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from the left rear, and they exchanged words.

Trayvon asked Zimmerman if he had a problem. Zimmerman said no and reached for his cell phone, he told police.

Trayvon then said, "Well, you do now" or something similar and punched Zimmerman in the nose.

Zimmerman fell to the ground and Trayvon got on top of him and began slamming his head into the sidewalk, he told police.

Zimmerman began yelling for help.

Several witnesses heard those cries, and there's been a dispute about from whom they came: Zimmerman or Trayvon.

Lawyers for Trayvon's family say it was Trayvon, but police say their evidence indicates it was Zimmerman.

One witnesses, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.

Zimmerman then shot Trayvon once in the chest from very close range, according to authorities.

When police arrived less than two minutes later, Zimmerman was bleeding from the nose, had a swollen lip and had bloody lacerations to the back of his head.

Paramedics gave him first aid, but he said no to going to the hospital. He got medical care the next day.

The Department of Justice last week opened a civil rights investigation into what happened, and Gov. Rick Scott appointed a special prosecutor.

More at link. If Z's account is right, Trayvon was the aggressor and Z had every right to shoot -- especially getting his head repeatedly slammed into the concrete

Did the PD recover the bloody clothing? Take pictures of the wounds? Have the shooter's injuries examined by an MD? Have the shooter tested for drugs and alcohlol? examine the child's cell phone for the most recent calls?

I would also like to see the ME report on the condition of the child's knuckles.

At the very least, the PD is completely inept, do you not agree?

[kelpdiver 2]

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Say...that's a good idea! We can get popcorn and watch the bozo action until the characters eliminate themselves! I LIKE it! Kinda like a movie where everybody dies in the end.

IE, a Hong Kong action flick.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Explain how Jorges got a bloody nose, had grass stains on his back, a bump on the back of his head and a witness saw him on the ground with someone wearing a black hoodie on top of him.

If the child was walking lawfully home and he noticed he was being followed, and then confronted by an armed stranger, perhaps he was in fear of his life and attempted to defend himself.

If that's what happened, then this would explain why Jorges wasn't arrested. You cannot assault someone whom you think is following you.

[jclalor 12]

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Explain how Jorges got a bloody nose, had grass stains on his back, a bump on the back of his head and a witness saw him on the ground with someone wearing a black hoodie on top of him.

If the child was walking lawfully home and he noticed he was being followed, and then confronted by an armed stranger, perhaps he was in fear of his life and attempted to defend himself.

If that's what happened, then this would explain why Jorges wansn't arrested. You cannot assault someone whom you think is following you.

Try reading the whole thing, I know you're capable.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Did the PD recover the bloody clothing? Take pictures of the wounds? Have the shooter's injuries examined by an MD? Have the shooter tested for drugs and alcohlol? examine the child's cell phone for the most recent calls?

I would also like to see the ME report on the condition of the child's knuckles.

At the very least, the PD is completely inept, do you not agree?

Your response is exactly why the Police are reluctant to release details of crimes. Once you release a few details, people assume this is everything they have and start accusing them of being dumb and incompetent. Same as with a skydiving incident people take partial details and start jumping to unfounded conclusions.

I really hope the Police don't release any more details until the entire investigation has been completed.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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I really hope the Police don't release any more details until the entire investigation has been completed

At least they are doing one. This whole thing started because they didn't do too much of one the first time around.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Explain how Jorges got a bloody nose, had grass stains on his back, a bump on the back of his head and a witness saw him on the ground with someone wearing a black hoodie on top of him.

If the child was walking lawfully home and he noticed he was being followed, and then confronted by an armed stranger, perhaps he was in fear of his life and attempted to defend himself.

If that's what happened, then this would explain why Jorges wansn't arrested. You cannot assault someone whom you think is following you.

Try reading the whole thing, I know you're capable.

So either he knew Jorges was armed or he didn't. If he didn't know he was armed, then why would he feel threatened? If he knew he was armed, why would he attack him. Come on, think. I know it hurts, but you can do it.

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I really hope the Police don't release any more details until the entire investigation has been completed

At least they are doing one. This whole thing started because they didn't do too much of one the first time around.

I suspect there's a lot more going on than you are aware of. As an example, why did it take several weeks before this story went viral and started recieving national attention?

[kelpdiver 2]

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To survive you've got to live in the real world. In the real world black people get accosted far more than 'whites'.

Now when you say this, are you basing it on actual data? Gut feel? Race driven rage?

You've made many sweeping statements based on thin air...any substance to back them?

There are many, many academic studies documenting differential treatment of blacks at every step of the penal system.

Here are just a few but literally I could list links all day:

But the statement was not about unfairness in the penal system, so listing links all day about that is besides the point.

The statement was about the rate in which blacks are accosted - IOW victimization rates. Wisc's assertion is that blacks are accosted more often than others and implied rather obviously that it was driven by racism, just as he firmly believes this event was. So that leads to the obvious question - is he basing this on any actual facts, or just his gut?

And if we accept his premise that attacks on blacks are due to racism, then we obviously need to filter out all the incidents where blacks hurt or kill other blacks. How big a portion does that represent?

We're not in the 50s anymore. There's no question about how the South used to be. But let's talk about how it is now.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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I suspect

Up thread you are berating people for jumping to conclusions without knowing facts. Here you start a sentence with "I suspect"

Hypocrite much?

[wlsc 0]

How it is now is that blacks are racially accosted so often that they shrug it off as just 'background'. It will be at school, on the street, by the police, by employers, by any racist who thinks they can get away with it. Recently hundreds of thousands of blacks were accosted and stripped of a couple of decades of wealth accumulation by a group of blue eyed, white bankers.

[skinnay 0]

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"The latest demand came from the New Black Panther Party, which on Saturday offered a $10,000 reward for Zimmerman's capture. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth," New Black Panther leader Mikhail Muhammad said when asked whether the offer could incite violence, the Orlando Sentinel reported.

At rallies held in solidarity with Martin's family, people have sold T-shirts featuring pictures of Zimmerman below a large "WANTED" sign. And Sonner said he and Zimmerman have received death threats."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-zimmerman-20120325,0,768039.story

Some years back I remember some commentator somewhere state that blacks are going to have to work harder to maintain their number one persecuted minority status because Hispanics and Latinos were growing rapidly and taking over the slot.

People earn a living studying and predicting social phenomena, trends, injustices and the like. They are probably drafting federal grant proposals as we speak.

Sharpton, the first on the scene, and Jackson exacerbate these unfortunate incidents. I believe they do it for personal gain. As the saying goes, "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

I have no opinion until after the grand jury finding.

Gotta love the fox news signature move of when you want to say something really racist, simply start with "some people say", or "i once heard from some commentator..."

[Gravitymaster 0]

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I suspect

Up thread you are berating people for jumping to conclusions without knowing facts. Here you start a sentence with "I suspect"

Hypocrite much?

My comments were about why this incident went viral. Surely you are capable of seeing the difference between that and comments specific to the incident.

You sure do keep stepping in it lately.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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More at link. If Z's account is right, Trayvon was the aggressor and Z had every right to shoot -- especially getting his head repeatedly slammed into the concrete

If that account is correct, I think the question becomes when the confrontation started. Did it start with Zimmerman's decision to start following Trayvon?

Would you feel threatened if somebody started following you at night?

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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My comments were about why this incident went viral. Surely you are capable of seeing the difference between that and comments specific to the incident.

You sure do keep stepping in it lately.

Ah yes, the "when I do it, it is different".

If you can answer why something goes viral in social media, you can make an absolute fortune in marketing.

Do you have such answers?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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My comments were about why this incident went viral. Surely you are capable of seeing the difference between that and comments specific to the incident.

You sure do keep stepping in it lately.

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Ah yes, the "when I do it, it is different".

That's not even close to what I said. Are you really incapable of distinguishing the differences?

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If you can answer why something goes viral in social media, you can make an absolute fortune in marketing.

Which is why i said 'I suspect" in regards to why this story went viral

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Do you have such answers?

Answered. The only question is if you have the capacity to understand.

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