Florida Teen Shot

[mirage62 0]

I love reading this stuff, it's like a soap opera:

"I just believe that ______ started the fight"

There's no proof of who threw the first punch. Period.

Personally I'm old. I don't heal fast. Someone upstream mention they had been mugged by three people and while unpleasant they weren't in fear for there life.

If I am getting mugged and I can get my hands on something - anything - to bash the offenders head in - I'm going to. If I have a gun, I'll do my best to shot them.

The idea that some of the people here have a firm few on how scared for his life he SHOULD have been is insane.

Perhaps you tough guys (gals) would NEVER kill someone who was beating the hell out of you. I wouldn't start it - but I would without doubt kill someone who was on top of me, beating me, if I could.

Of course your mileage may vary........

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[rushmc 18]

mirage62

I love reading this stuff, it's like a soap opera:

"I just believe that ______ started the fight"

There's no proof of who threw the first punch. Period.

Personally I'm old. I don't heal fast. Someone upstream mention they had been mugged by three people and while unpleasant they weren't in fear for there life.

If I am getting mugged and I can get my hands on something - anything - to bash the offenders head in - I'm going to. If I have a gun, I'll do my best to shot them.

The idea that some of the people here have a firm few on how scared for his life he SHOULD have been is insane.

Perhaps you tough guys (gals) would NEVER kill someone who was beating the hell out of you. I wouldn't start it - but I would without doubt kill someone who was on top of me, beating me, if I could.

Of course your mileage may vary........

I bet am nearly as old as you or older
Never been in a fight myself
dont plan on starting now

As for who started it?

All I ever said is there was never enough evidence to charge Zimmerman and doing so was political. Period, end of story
But the race baiter, the left and the media had to make something out of that was never there. And many of them lied and are lieing to do just that and now here we are


TM could have went home in a minute and a half from where he was killed but he instead was out there for nearly 4 minutes and an altercation occured

Zimmerman being out of his truck has no bearing on this in any way
It appears the TM came to Zimmerman
This is infered through the time line, what witnesses there were and the phone recordings

Now TM is dead

Tell, what have I stated here that is not in evidense ?

As for your last line?

I would do the same

Hope I never ever have to come even close to making this kind of decision

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[devildog 0]

DanG

Quote

TM notices he is being followed. He loses his follower. He circles around to confront his follower. He tells his friend on the phone he's being followed by "some crazy-ass cracka". He reaches his follower and looks down at him. He politely asks, "I'm sorry, but your activities are spoiling my enjoyment of this fine evening. Might I inquire as to why you persist in observing my evening respite?"

GZ suddenly begins to pummel TM's fists with his face. With one hand, he pulls TM over on top of him. With the other, he draws his pistol. On his way down, he realizes it will look better if he is bleeding, so he intentionally blows his judo breakfall to hit his head on the concrete. TM cries out as GZ's weight pulls TM to the ground. GZ fires.

Very cute.

I think a more likely POSSIBLE scenario is that Martin, who was not a peaceful kid, but apparently a punk and thug, was approached by Zimmerman and asked what he was doing in the neighborhood. Martin would probably have told Zimerman to fuck himself, perhaps even used a racial slur. In his anger at being insulted Zimmerman might have shoved, slapped, or otherwise initiated physical contact. He then proceeded to get his ass handed to him.

That's a possible scenario, and obviously much more likely than your little farce.

Given testimony to GZ character, that's a possible scenario but not a plausible one whatsoever. It contradicts everything that people have said about GZ that knew him.

GZ's events, however, are completely in line with what people have said about both GZ and TM. TM initiated the confrontation. GZ meekly replied with words, "I don't have a problem" (beta male behavior) and TM took a swing on him as he wanted / had to keep up his thug/gangsta view and mentality.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[DanG 1]

Quote

Given testimony to GZ character, that's a possible scenario but not a plausible one whatsoever. It contradicts everything that people have said about GZ that knew him.

GZ's events, however, are completely in line with what people have said about both GZ and TM. TM initiated the confrontation. GZ meekly replied with words, "I don't have a problem" (beta male behavior) and TM took a swing on him as he wanted / had to keep up his thug/gangsta view and mentality.

Sure, that's how it might have happened. Maybe that's even the more likely scenario. But it's not proven by any evidence. If people could admit that we don't know for certain, and stop acting like we do, I'd drop it.

- Dan G

[devildog 0]

DanG

Quote

Given testimony to GZ character, that's a possible scenario but not a plausible one whatsoever. It contradicts everything that people have said about GZ that knew him.

GZ's events, however, are completely in line with what people have said about both GZ and TM. TM initiated the confrontation. GZ meekly replied with words, "I don't have a problem" (beta male behavior) and TM took a swing on him as he wanted / had to keep up his thug/gangsta view and mentality.

Sure, that's how it might have happened. Maybe that's even the more likely scenario. But it's not proven by any evidence. If people could admit that we don't know for certain, and stop acting like we do, I'd drop it.

Nothing in life is proven 100%. That's just basic philosophy 101.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[turtlespeed 212]

DanG

Quote

Perhaps if you get your panties in such a twist, you should stop reading the thread...

Or people like you could stop posting bullshit and let a reasonable discussion among adults occur.

HA ahahahaha

That is the most ironic thing I have seen in a long while.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[davjohns 1]

devildog

Nothing in life is proven 100%. That's just basic philosophy 101.

I'm not 100% certain about that rule.

Dan: No pictures = no panties. Don't care if they were wadded or not. Post pictures or quit talking about them.

Don: No problem accepting that I wasn't there and nobody knows for sure. I'm just playing the odds on this one.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[davjohns 1]

turtlespeed

***

Quote

Perhaps if you get your panties in such a twist, you should stop reading the thread...

Or people like you could stop posting bullshit and let a reasonable discussion among adults occur.

HA ahahahaha

That is the most ironic thing I have seen in a long while.

One point to the amphibian. Expecting no bullshit, reasonable discussion, and adults all in one thread is not the SC way. Hell, most days I'd like to see one of those two posts in a row.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

muff528

***

.....When two people are in a place they are allowed to be, and not violating any laws, is there some super-secret rule that says who can "stand their ground" and who should back down and go home?

Don

Exactly the question I raised way back towards the beginning of this thread when SYG was being discussed. I think the defense pretty much abandoned the SYG aspect of self-defense early on.Sure, the defense didn't invoke SYG, although the juror who has been talking to Anderson Cooper has brought it up, so it apparently influenced her thinking at least.

What intrigues me is that the same people who have been so vocal in support of SYG through this and other discussions now say Martin should have just gone home. I'm curious in a general sort of way, not just in regard to this particular case: how can you say that people who feel threatened have no duty to retreat, yet say if Martin felt threatened, he should have just gone home. Why should one person have backed down but not the other? What rule governs that? Is the guy with the concealed gun always in the right, by default? It would seem so.

Again, it's too bad in this particular case that neither participant backed down.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[jclalor 12]

Quote

GZ suddenly begins to pummel TM's fists with his face. With one hand, he pulls TM over on top of him. With the other, he draws his pistol. On his way down, he realizes it will look better if he is bleeding, so he intentionally blows his judo breakfall to hit his head on the concrete. TM cries out as GZ's weight pulls TM to the ground. GZ fires.

I thought GZ stated when TM confronted him, that GZ reached into jacket to grab his cell phone and that is when TM punched him and the fight began. Is it not plausible to think TM thought he was reaching for a weapon after being followed by GZ no apparent reason?

[jclalor 12]

Quote

TM has recently been involved in street fighting. He has been involved in drugs. But we'll pretend he's a peaceful kid.

And what about GZ? who had been arrested in the past for domestic violence and assault on a police officer? What had TM ever been arrested for?

[devildog 0]

davjohns

***Nothing in life is proven 100%. That's just basic philosophy 101.

I'm not 100% certain about that rule.

Well, I suppose there is the famous, "I think, therefore I am." But after that, all bets are off :)

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[linebckr83 3]

jclalor

Quote

TM has recently been involved in street fighting. He has been involved in drugs. But we'll pretend he's a peaceful kid.

And what about GZ? who had been arrested in the past for domestic violence and assault on a police officer? What had TM ever been arrested for?

Of which those charges were dropped immediately. So referring to them is skewed. TM didn't make it to the age that Zimmerman was when he was arrested for assault. Just because he hadn't been arrested doesn't imply he's a goody boy. Marijuana is illegal in florida and he would have been facing hard time if he was caught. Same goes for his street fights.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[billvon 2,406]

>Of which those charges were dropped immediately.

No, neither was dropped immediately.

His ex-fiancee applied for, and got, a restraining order against him for domestic violence. It was not "dropped" at all.

He was charged with assaulting a police officer; the charges were later reduced, then dropped only after he agreed to enter a treatment program. Since his father was a state Supreme Court magistrate at the time there was some question as to whether he pulled some strings.

Neither of those, of course, means that he's a murderer. It DOES mean that he has a history of violence. It's one of those troublesome facts that Zimmerman supporters keep praying goes away.

[kelpdiver 2]

billvon

Neither of those, of course, means that he's a murderer. It DOES mean that he has a history of violence. It's one of those troublesome facts that Zimmerman supporters keep praying goes away.

why? the trial is over. Half assed justice prevailed.

TM's rap sheet was far worse, and far more recent. And also irrelevant, save to those who continue to insist that something was wrong with the verdict, despite ANY evidence at all to support the argument.

[jclalor 12]

Quote

linebckr83

***
***
TM has recently been involved in street fighting. He has been involved in drugs. But we'll pretend he's a peaceful kid.

And what about GZ? who had been arrested in the past for domestic violence and assault on a police officer? What had TM ever been arrested for?

Of which those charges were dropped immediately. So referring to them is skewed. TM didn't make it to the age that Zimmerman was when he was arrested for assault. Just because he hadn't been arrested doesn't imply he's a goody boy. Marijuana is illegal in florida and he would have been facing hard time if he was caught. Same goes for his street fights.

I can't count the times I have been arrested for assaulting a police officer and domestic abuse, only to then have the charges dropped, I thought it was a common occurrence for everybody. I find your logic interesting that you can hold the actions of TM as a child against him that never resulted in an arrest, yet actions by GZ as an adult, that resulted in an arrest, are dismissed, that's interesting, very interesting.

And we all know how violently aggressive smoking pot can make you, it's a terrible terrible drug. Funny how GZ never had a drug screen.

[billvon 2,406]

>why? the trial is over.

Yes it is. Yet you keep posting things like:

>TM's rap sheet was far worse, and far more recent.

So clearly it's not over in your mind.

[mirage62 0]

Relax I wasn't reponding to you.

But if you took it that I hoped that I would ever be in that situation, your wrong. I pray that Im not ever put in that place.

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[kelpdiver 2]

billvon

>TM's rap sheet was far worse, and far more recent.

So clearly it's not over in your mind.

why the selective citation here, Bill? You're engaging in much more deceptive debate techniques than typical for you.

You clearly have an issue with the verdict, but in the absence of any evidence to support it, you're resorting to these juvenile tactics.

[linebckr83 3]

billvon

>Of which those charges were dropped immediately.

No, neither was dropped immediately.

His ex-fiancee applied for, and got, a restraining order against him for domestic violence. It was not "dropped" at all.

He was charged with assaulting a police officer; the charges were later reduced, then dropped only after he agreed to enter a treatment program. Since his father was a state Supreme Court magistrate at the time there was some question as to whether he pulled some strings.

Neither of those, of course, means that he's a murderer. It DOES mean that he has a history of violence. It's one of those troublesome facts that Zimmerman supporters keep praying goes away.

He also applied for a restraining against her as well, so it was mutual.

You say it was not "dropped" at all, then a few sentences later say that it was dropped when he entered a program...

The assault arrest was 8 years ago when he was 21. TM on the other hand, was currently involved in drugs, currently on drugs, currently suspended from school, currently talking about illegal gun purchasing, and recently involved in fights. Weigh that how you want, but a little common sense suggests who really had the pertinent history.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[mirage62 0]

Quote

His ex-fiancee applied for, and got, a restraining order against him for domestic violence. It was not "dropped" at all.

He was charged with assaulting a police officer; the charges were later reduced, then dropped only after he agreed to enter a treatment program.

Bill before I tangle with the master....DID you listen to the part of the trial that dealt with this? If you did do you still believe that in the real sense of the word that he assaulted a police office.

Or have you simply quoted the left view, in the manner of the press to try and validate your view?

Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little

[OHCHUTE 0]

linebckr83

***>Of which those charges were dropped immediately.

No, neither was dropped immediately.

His ex-fiancee applied for, and got, a restraining order against him for domestic violence. It was not "dropped" at all.

He was charged with assaulting a police officer; the charges were later reduced, then dropped only after he agreed to enter a treatment program. Since his father was a state Supreme Court magistrate at the time there was some question as to whether he pulled some strings.

Neither of those, of course, means that he's a murderer. It DOES mean that he has a history of violence. It's one of those troublesome facts that Zimmerman supporters keep praying goes away.

He also applied for a restraining against her as well, so it was mutual.

You say it was not "dropped" at all, then a few sentences later say that it was dropped when he entered a program...

The assault arrest was 8 years ago when he was 21. TM on the other hand, was currently involved in drugs, currently on drugs, currently suspended from school, currently talking about illegal gun purchasing, and recently involved in fights. Weigh that how you want, but a little common sense suggests who really had the pertinent history.

Broken nose. And: Perp on top of the victim rendering broken nose to victim. The only words needed to decide the case. Background of the individuals, race, age, gender, state of mind, have no influence. The broken nose occurred before the gun went off. TM was not "standing his ground" bashing the head of the victim as Z posed no threat in that position. He was assaulting Z. Z stood his ground by firing the gun.

I suspect had Z been standing upon firing the weapon the case might have been more difficult to decide.

[linebckr83 3]

Read my response. GZ arrested 8 years ago, charges eventually dropped. TM currently involved in fighting and drugs and gun sales. But sure, pointless sarcasm makes your argument much more sound.

In his system he also had Temazepam (hypnotic) which is a type of Benzo, and Adderall. Not what I would call "relaxing" drugs.

He also had pictures on his phone of what some believe to be the drug drink "purple lean" which, coincidentally, can be made using skittles and Arizona watermelon.

"Are you coming to the party?
Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!"
Flying Hellfish #828
Dudist #52

[billvon 2,406]

>You clearly have an issue with the verdict

No, actually I don't. My big issue was to see it go to trial where it could be decided by the justice system. It was - which is how it should be.

[rushmc 18]

mirage62

Relax I wasn't reponding to you.

But if you took it that I hoped that I would ever be in that situation, your wrong. I pray that Im not ever put in that place.

I knew you were not replying to me
And I understood that you, like me, hope to never have to make a decision like that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln