Coreece 190 #26 December 29, 2011 QuoteSo that's how it works, huh, every crime that isn't religiously motivated is an atheistic crime? It's not so pleasant when it's your ideology that's being falsely attacked, is it? QuoteThere is no (reason to believe there is a) God" doesn't give people a lot of motivation to kill others. Neither does belief in God, violent video games, horror flicks, Marilyn Manson nor gangster rap....killers motivate themselves with whatever justification they can find. QuoteSo while atheist, just like theists, consist of a varied group with different, often conflicting ethical systems, you have to look for something else: all those mass murderers were anti-religious communists for example. Oh, ok...so it's not so black and white, is it? QuoteI'm more of a secular humanist. So if you want to piss me of, slam me over the head with a secular humanist megalomanic mass-murderer. Nobody's trying to piss you off...the problem is that lately we've had people comming here in SC making delusional statements that the world would be all rainbows and jellybeans if we didn't have religion. It wouldn't piss me off so much if they, in their ignorance, didn't actually believe it.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #27 December 29, 2011 Quotelately we've had people comming here in SC making delusional statements that the world would be all rainbows and jellybeans if we didn't have religion. You're mischaracterizing people and spinning what they've said in order to vilify them. If you think they're full of shit, call them out for what they've actually said. But please don't insult the intelligence, or the collective memory, of your fellow SC inmates. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #28 December 29, 2011 QuoteWow, I always wondered why we called them "Godless Communists" back in the day. Hey, thanks for clearing that up. OK, to the point: Do you really think people can't distinguish ideological despots who use anti-religion as a weapon of convenience from "atheists"? Your argument is hopelessly weak. and @ Marinus, too. You are right! Just because these mass killings were not committed in the name of a religion doesn't mean they were committed in the name of "non-religion" or atheism. I didn't really mean to suggest that. Just wanted to point out that likewise you can't say that a given "religion" is the cause of violence when there are vast majorities of religious (as opposed to atheist) people who do not condone or support the violence committed in the name of that religion. Murderers do not necessarily need religion to justify the killings to themselves. But the numbers of folks killed by these non-religious purges and executions and genocides far exceeds any killings done in the name of the various religions (maybe all combined). Neither do I think that violence committed by one religious group against another religious group is necessarily committed in the name of their religion (although I agree that religion is sometimes used to gain support from their populace for that violence in an "it's-them-or-us" sort of way.) For example, the crusades were a direct response to Muslim expansionism. No expansionism : no crusades ...that simple. But religion was used as a motivator to oppose that expansionism and to push the "invaders" back, and to keep pushing once they were repelled. Who were the "good guys"? Depends on whose side you were on. Otherwise, why fight it? Just assimilate into the aggressors' society and adopt their religion and customs and call it a day. Peace on earth once everyone who doesn't agree is kilt and all that are left are those who do assimilate. Some folks didn't want to do that whether it was for religions reasons or simply because they just did not want to live under Muslim rule ...even though the Muslims did invade in the name of their religion. There will always be these kinds of conflicts and there will always be despots, religious or otherwise, who will commit atrocities to gain and keep power and there will always need to be those who oppose them, whether or not they do so under a religious banner. There will always be those who are living under despotism and tyranny, religious or otherwise, who need free people, religious or otherwise, to come to their aid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #29 December 29, 2011 QuoteQuotelately we've had people comming here in SC making delusional statements that the world would be all rainbows and jellybeans if we didn't have religion. You're mischaracterizing people and spinning what they've said in order to vilify them. If you think they're full of shit, call them out for what they've actually said. Ok, I think the following quotes are full of shit: "Errr, I hate to be the one to point out the Blatantly obvious dude, but if you took all religion away from the middle east...They would have no reason to hate each other and would most likely get along just fine." "When we stop believing in fairy tales and silly invisible friends we will stop this utter madness. is it not staring us in the face ??????? : (" "If you want to see what largely Atheist societies look like , see the scandanavian countries."Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #30 December 29, 2011 Quotesee the scandanavian countries Blonde chicks, tits, and legal pot. Seriously, you would argue with that? Now who's being delusional? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #31 December 29, 2011 Quote Quote see the scandanavian countries Blonde chicks, tits, and legal pot. Seriously, you would argue with that? Now who's being delusional? Atheist countries look more like Albania...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #32 December 29, 2011 QuoteJohn, your not infrequent use of the catch-all term "gun-o-phobes" to vilify a remarkably large swath of the population prompts me to recall the biblical passage about first removing the beam from one's own eye. Removing the beam from your own eye would show his description to be valid, as their basic argument comes down to 'guns are bad'.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #33 December 29, 2011 QuoteQuoteJohn, your not infrequent use of the catch-all term "gun-o-phobes" to vilify a remarkably large swath of the population prompts me to recall the biblical passage about first removing the beam from one's own eye. Removing the beam from your own eye would show his description to be valid, as their basic argument comes down to 'guns are bad'. Seems to me, that Andy's point is acknowledged his own beam. Returning the comment to JR is a courteous return of the gift JR offered him. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #34 December 29, 2011 Quote Quote Quote see the scandanavian countries Blonde chicks, tits, and legal pot. Seriously, you would argue with that? Now who's being delusional? Atheist countries look more like Albania... Try again - they're Muslim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #35 December 29, 2011 Quote It's not so pleasant when it's your ideology that's being falsely attacked, is it? Because my agnosticism doesn't say anything about me, but my stance towards the existence of Gods, I hardly care wether it's ripped to pieces or not. Quote ...killers motivate themselves with whatever justification they can find. And there's plenty of justification to kill in the bible, the torah, and the quran. Luckily most people go for the more friendly texts most of the time. Quote Nobody's trying to piss you off... You can't be serious. I won't claim that the purpose of the SC is to piss of people, but it's one of the favourite pass-times here it seems. Quote the problem is that lately we've had people comming here in SC making delusional statements that the world would be all rainbows and jellybeans if we didn't have religion. It wouldn't piss me off so much if they, in their ignorance, didn't actually believe it. The problem with anti-religion is that it's very hard (let's say impossible) to proof whether religion/spirituality is an disadvantage to the species or not. I tend to think it's advantageous in some way or another. Well, religion/spirituality in general, not necessarily cults that sacrifice babies etc. Another point is that I don't believe people have a real choice. I never chose to be a non-believer, and I can accept-jesus-as-my-lord-and-saviour as often as I want, but I won't actually believe he's my lord and saviour. I suspect it works the other way around too. Of course you can change one's mind by brainwashing, torture, electroshocks or a combination there-off, the inquisition wasn't all that stupid, that stuff really works, but there's of course moral implications when you do that. Quote Oh, ok...so it's not so black and white, is it? I don't remember I claimed it was Black and white, probably because I didn't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #36 December 29, 2011 QuoteJohn, your not infrequent use of the catch-all term "gun-o-phobes" to vilify a remarkably large swath of the population prompts me to recall the biblical passage about first removing the beam from one's own eye. It's not a wide swath, it's a very narrow one. It specifically refers to people who fear guns, to the point that they want them eliminated from society. And those folks are an ever-shrinking small and irrelevant minority in America. They make a lot of noise, but they no longer have any power to accomplish their dreams of citizen disarmament. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #37 December 29, 2011 QuoteIt's not a wide swath, it's a very narrow one. It specifically refers to people who fear guns, to the point that they want them eliminated from society. And those folks are an ever-shrinking small and irrelevant minority in America. They make a lot of noise, but they no longer have any power to accomplish their dreams of citizen disarmament. so back to your original comment then - it seems that here's a response...... As far as what someone considers a "religious" person - It's not a wide swath, it's a very narrow one. It specifically refers to people who have a diety based belief, to the point that they want their views enforced onto the rest of society. And those folks are an ever-shrinking small and irrelevant minority in America. They make a lot of noise, but they no longer have any power to accomplish their dreams of a religious state ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #38 December 29, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote see the scandanavian countries Blonde chicks, tits, and legal pot. Seriously, you would argue with that? Now who's being delusional? Atheist countries look more like Albania... Try again - they're Muslim. So what? I know Catholic Albanians... Oh well, I guess anything is better than living in "State Atheism" Albania, the first official Atheistic country = FailYour secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #39 December 29, 2011 QuoteOf course you can change one's mind by brainwashing, torture, electroshocks or a combination there-off, the inquisition wasn't all that stupid, that stuff really works, but there's of course moral implications when you do that. Do you think that the inquisition followed the tenents of biblical christianity?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
muff528 3 #40 December 29, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote see the scandanavian countries Blonde chicks, tits, and legal pot. Seriously, you would argue with that? Now who's being delusional? Atheist countries look more like Albania... Try again - they're Muslim. According to the song they're a communist republic. It doesn't mention religion. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #41 December 29, 2011 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote see the scandanavian countries Blonde chicks, tits, and legal pot. Seriously, you would argue with that? Now who's being delusional? Atheist countries look more like Albania... Try again - they're Muslim. According to the song they're a communist republic. It doesn't mention religion. They're now a democracy trying to recover from the damage of state atheism...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #42 December 29, 2011 QuoteQuoteIt's not a wide swath, it's a very narrow one. It specifically refers to people who fear guns, to the point that they want them eliminated from society. And those folks are an ever-shrinking small and irrelevant minority in America. They make a lot of noise, but they no longer have any power to accomplish their dreams of citizen disarmament. so back to your original comment then - it seems that here's a response...... As far as what someone considers a "religious" person - It's not a wide swath, it's a very narrow one. It specifically refers to people who have a diety based belief, to the point that they want their views enforced onto the rest of society. And those folks are an ever-shrinking small and irrelevant minority in America. They make a lot of noise, but they no longer have any power to accomplish their dreams of a religious state And that would be an incorrect definition of the term "religious person", IMO. Using the same analogy, a religious person would be more like just an ordinary person who dislikes guns, but minds their own business about that stance, and doesn't go around telling others that they shouldn't have them. That's the equivalent to the average religious person. I put "phobe" on the end of my "gun-o-phobe" phrase to denote that this is more virulent strain of anti-gun person than the average anti-gun folk. The root word is "phobia", which denotes an irrational fear. Like adding the word "extremist" to the phrase "muslim extremist", to differentiate them from ordinary peace-loving muslims. Your definition, above, would more properly refer to "religious extremists", or "atheist-o-phobes", rather than just ordinary "religious people". The problem that I often have here is that anti-religion people are lumping in ordinary religious people with the religious extremists. And that's just plain wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #43 December 30, 2011 Quote Do you think that the inquisition followed the tenents of biblical christianity? No, I don't think that. But they were very convincing I reckon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
