rehmwa 2 #251 December 15, 2011 QuoteQuoteQuotewhat's in it for you if more and more capital is held by fewer and fewer people? exactly - what's in it for us if only 535 people hold all the money? A very dark future with little to no upward mobility in income. Now we're getting somewhere - no good to have such a huge portion of the economy in the hands of those 535 people - neither the 435 in one end of the building - nor 100 in the other end ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #252 December 15, 2011 QuoteFor any money he takes from you, you see right back in your life with respect to roads and clean water which will allow you to make more money and live a long life. I respectfully disagree. I have never been on disability, welfare, Medicaid, medicare, SCHIP, Social Security, etc. (I have been a member of the military, so there’s that part I’ll disclose). The road money comes from fuel taxes and bonds. And that money, of course, is always being redirected, which is why our bridges are in such awful disrepair. (Politicians hate maintenance projects). And it also misses the point: I don’t want my money taken from me so I’ll get it back later. I want my own money so I can put it aside and get it when I want it. With the money I’ve paid just in income taxes I could have paid off my student loans, putting that money back into the economy. I could have left it in the bank – putting it there for others to access it if needed. I could have put it into skydiving. I could have put it into new business and hired more people. But that money is seized and used at the direction of others. Let’s say I want 10 bucks a week to buy beer. “Well, beer is not in your best interest. I’ll take that money and give it to Joe, who needs diabetes medication. The money will come back to you in the long run.” Fuck that. QuoteIt's all capital gains so they pay less than if you were making $45k a eyar and lived in NJ. That's in percentage. Let's look at real dollars. And then let's take a look at the Macroeconomic model that caused this. The capital gains tax rate. It was lowered so people would invest. They went into investments. Now live off it. This is macroeconomic behavior. Change the rules and people will seek the advantage. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #253 December 15, 2011 law check this out, say you invest as the Waltons have and you make say 100mill. You pay 10% tax on that income. But you can't spend $100mill you have a home and you can only eat so much. So you take say $50mill of that and trow it back over the fence and it makes you another say $100mill in a few years which again you pay 10% tax on and you pull $50mill of that....so in effect you just paid 10% of 10% on $50mill that you will use to live. You "churn" money. You are not adding any real value to the system. The money that is in the system is being used to fuel factories in Asia so that you can sell low end crap at your Wallmart store. It is what it is. And I'm ok with it. But how about this, bump up the capital gains a bit for those who make huge sums of money? Say anything more than $1mill gained should be taxed at a standard rate of 30%. Stop massive investments and push it down to local investments by you and me and the little people so we may make a bit more cash. As for you not enjoying paying taxes and not seeing what you get that's for another thread. Not here.Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #254 December 15, 2011 Quote Case in point look at the Waltons, every penny they pay less as compinsation they take in terms of increased profits. Or in lower prices - the negative (beneficial) effect on inflation driven by Walmart's pricing is measurable, and exceeds a percentage point. Not always a positive - when they force the producers to sell for less, they force shortcuts in method or quality. But purely from the immediate perspective of the customer, prices go down. Have you looked at the chart for WMT? It's been flat for a decade, and its peak was in 2000. The Waltons are making money from the 2.5% dividend, but not much else in a considerable period of time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #255 December 15, 2011 Quote [lots of made up numbers removed] Stop massive investments and push it down to local investments by you and me and the little people so we may make a bit more cash. Go Communes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #256 December 15, 2011 Quote law check this out, say you invest as the Waltons have and you make say 100mill. You pay 10% tax on that income. But you can't spend $100mill you have a home and you can only eat so much. So you take say $50mill of that and trow it back over the fence and it makes you another say $100mill in a few years which again you pay 10% tax on and you pull $50mill of that....so in effect you just paid 10% of 10% on $50mill that you will use to live. You "churn" money. You are not adding any real value to the system. The money that is in the system is being used to fuel factories in Asia so that you can sell low end crap at your Wallmart store. It is what it is. And I'm ok with it. But how about this, bump up the capital gains a bit for those who make huge sums of money? Say anything more than $1mill gained should be taxed at a standard rate of 30%. Stop massive investments and push it down to local investments by you and me and the little people so we may make a bit more cash. As for you not enjoying paying taxes and not seeing what you get that's for another thread. Not here. Says who, it is relevant to the discussion of redistributing wealth, which is what all you communists are proposing. As far as the rest of you post all I can say is huh??? Care to generalize even more? Throwing money over the fence??! Is that where your down payment for your underwater blunder went?"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #257 December 15, 2011 Quote Quote law check this out, say you invest as the Waltons have and you make say 100mill. You pay 10% tax on that income. But you can't spend $100mill you have a home and you can only eat so much. So you take say $50mill of that and trow it back over the fence and it makes you another say $100mill in a few years which again you pay 10% tax on and you pull $50mill of that....so in effect you just paid 10% of 10% on $50mill that you will use to live. You "churn" money. You are not adding any real value to the system. The money that is in the system is being used to fuel factories in Asia so that you can sell low end crap at your Wallmart store. It is what it is. And I'm ok with it. But how about this, bump up the capital gains a bit for those who make huge sums of money? Say anything more than $1mill gained should be taxed at a standard rate of 30%. Stop massive investments and push it down to local investments by you and me and the little people so we may make a bit more cash. As for you not enjoying paying taxes and not seeing what you get that's for another thread. Not here. Says who, it is relevant to the discussion of redistributing wealth, which is what all you communists are proposing. As far as the rest of you post all I can say is huh??? Care to generalize even more? Throwing money over the fence??! Is that where your down payment for your underwater blunder went? care to come back with something more rational...stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #258 December 15, 2011 Quotelaw check this out, say you invest as the Waltons have and you make say 100mill. You pay 10% tax on that income. But you can't spend $100mill you have a home and you can only eat so much. So you take say $50mill of that and trow it back over the fence and it makes you another say $100mill in a few years which again you pay 10% tax on and you pull $50mill of that....so in effect you just paid 10% of 10% on $50mill that you will use to live. You "churn" money. No. Others are churning that money. I just let them use it. And damn, that’s a pretty healthy return! Worthy of a Clinton! QuoteYou are not adding any real value to the system. The money that is in the system is being used to fuel factories in Asia so that you can sell low end crap at your Wallmart store. In one sense, yes. In another sense, the “system” is global. Here’s where we are in the US. It’s cheaper to design, build, machine and staff a factory, train employees, ship raw goods to China, manufacture, ship back to the US and distribute it than it is to build stuff here. QuoteBut how about this, bump up the capital gains a bit for those who make huge sums of money? Say anything more than $1mill gained should be taxed at a standard rate of 30%. This will cause other bad effects. Investments will be withdrawn, sure. And that is a recipe for inflation and stagflation. There’s another problem this will cause: a GRAVE chilling of global relationships. Chilling investments chills trade. And chilling of trade means less to lose. You’ve brought up macroeconomics. Now we’re getting into the real meat of macroeconomic policy. QuoteStop massive investments and push it down to local investments by you and me and the little people so we may make a bit more cash. Hey – I need twenty grand of seed money for a new business. I can either take out a loan or save up for it. There are business loans offered by banks and even by the SBA. Investors are different. They look for a stake in the businesses they help with. A “small business” with other stakeholders is a different thing. QuoteAs for you not enjoying paying taxes and not seeing what you get that's for another thread. Not here. You’re the one that wrote I’ll see it in the future. You opened that door. I barged through it. I tend to do that. Airtwardo ’s good friend and defense attorney Gale Sayers needed 18 inches of daylight. All I need is a crack. by the way - thanks for turning this into a good discussion. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dreamdancer 0 #259 December 15, 2011 Quote well put. very well put. it's almost like i know what i'm talking about stay away from moving propellers - they bite blue skies from thai sky adventures good solid response-provoking keyboarding Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #260 December 16, 2011 QuoteParis Hilton and the Kardashians come to minf... Chuck Hmmmm... Was that last supposed to be... -milf -mine -milk -my house in all my dreams -?????My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #261 December 16, 2011 Quote Quote Paris Hilton and the Kardashians come to minf... Chuck Hmmmm... Was that last supposed to be... -milf -mine -milk -my house in all my dreams -????? That was supposed to have been mind. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
loumeinhart 0 #262 December 16, 2011 Quoteow the waltons....well they will take your money....they won't give you shit back The Walton's took $26 from me yesterday morning. In return they gave me a jump drive and some audio cabling. You don't want spin? You're entire posts are spin! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #263 December 16, 2011 Quote Quote well put. very well put. it's almost like i know what i'm talking about No, not really.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #264 December 16, 2011 QuoteQuoteow the waltons....well they will take your money....they won't give you shit back The Walton's took $26 from me yesterday morning. In return they gave me a jump drive and some audio cabling. You don't want spin? You're entire posts are spin! So...what you are really saying is that you took a jump drive and some audio cabling away from the Walton family. Leaving them a few bits of paper makes it all OK? You, sir have stolen solid, material possessions from that family and ought to be ashamed of yourself.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #265 December 16, 2011 Quote Quote Quote ow the waltons....well they will take your money....they won't give you shit back The Walton's took $26 from me yesterday morning. In return they gave me a jump drive and some audio cabling. You don't want spin? You're entire posts are spin! So...what you are really saying is that you took a jump drive and some audio cabling away from the Walton family. Leaving them a few bits of paper makes it all OK? You, sir have stolen solid, material possessions from that family and ought to be ashamed of yourself. There's a stretch! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #266 December 16, 2011 QuoteThat's just a bit of an unrealistic analogy. You might as well have just used 'Joe the Wino' as your underdog here. Why is it unrealistic. It indicates that in general, you need buckets of money to win an election. In order to get those buckets of money, you have to make concessions. The bigger the money, the bigger the concessions/favours. QuoteYou keep throwing this whole 'Plutocracy' term around as a reason why we should start stripping people of wealth on our side of the border. Plutocracy is 'rule by the wealthy.' That's not what we have in the US. Well, it is what you have. Not too many poor powerbrokers in DC. I also indicated many times that I don't think it is an issue now. I have, repeatedly, stated that it is a possible and maybe even plausibel end result of the current road we are on. I never advocated stripping anybody of wealth. I am trying to have a discussion about the dangers of a small group of people amassing the majority of wealth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diverborg 0 #267 December 16, 2011 Lawrocket = winning I don't have much to add to this discussion other than that. You've said it all much better than I could. Run for president, I will vote for you and donate to your campaign. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #268 December 16, 2011 Lawrocket/Nightingale 2012!! (or vice versa)Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #269 December 16, 2011 QuoteLawrocket/Nightingale 2012!! (or vice versa) That's the ticket! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
