Nice company to keep

[billvon 2,426]

>"This Court has never held that the Constitution . . .

?? Are you arguing that Scalia claims that executions are murder? If so you might have left out the relevant part of the quote.

[kallend 1,646]

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>"This Court has never held that the Constitution . . .

?? Are you arguing that Scalia claims that executions are murder? If so you might have left out the relevant part of the quote.

Following your logic, Saddam Hussein's and Stalin's victims weren't murdered either. After all, each (SH and JS) was the lawful authority in their nation at the time.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,426]

>Following your logic, Saddam Hussein's and Stalin's victims weren't murdered either.

You should have used Hitler. A much more emotional argument than Stalin. (And _definitely_ more emotional than Scalia.)

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Better one innocent man be executed than ten guilty men go free to continue their murdering ways.
Allowing murderers to go free knowing they will most likely kill again is just a cheap chicken-shit way of trying to wash our hands of the responsibility of death.
"Don't blame me, all I did was let them go free. THEY killed those 10 innocent people" gives a better feeling than "Yes, I executed an innocent man along with the 10 absolutely guilty ones".

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[jgoose71 0]

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I am good with just not murdering people... especially state sponsored murder..... YMMV

Do you still consider it state sponsored murder if you lock someone up and let them die slowly of gang green, leprosy, meningitis, or hepatitis? Technically you didn't kill them, you just kept them incarcerated.

Last I checked... our system does not allow for that.... in our prison system. If it is.... prosecute the jailors or wardens for abusing their positions of authority for allowing the abuse.

I'm not talking about our prison system, I'm talking about others.

If you are going to hold other countries up in such high regard and call them morally superior to us because they don't have the death penalty, then what about all the other aspects of the countries judicial system?

A lot of countries, like the Philippines and Mexico, only think they have the responsibility to lock you up. Anything after that, like eating, is on you.

Yet some people will say that because they don't have the death penalty, their judicial system is superior.

It's kind of like saying that Cuba's health care is superior, just because the state provides it. Never mind that everyone who can get health care else where, goes elsewhere.....

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[Amazon 7]

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I am good with just not murdering people... especially state sponsored murder..... YMMV

Do you still consider it state sponsored murder if you lock someone up and let them die slowly of gang green, leprosy, meningitis, or hepatitis? Technically you didn't kill them, you just kept them incarcerated.

Last I checked... our system does not allow for that.... in our prison system. If it is.... prosecute the jailors or wardens for abusing their positions of authority for allowing the abuse.

I'm not talking about our prison system, I'm talking about others.

If you are going to hold other countries up in such high regard and call them morally superior to us because they don't have the death penalty, then what about all the other aspects of the countries judicial system?

A lot of countries, like the Philippines and Mexico, only think they have the responsibility to lock you up. Anything after that, like eating, is on you.

Yet some people will say that because they don't have the death penalty, their judicial system is superior.

It's kind of like saying that Cuba's health care is superior, just because the state provides it. Never mind that everyone who can get health care else where, goes elsewhere.....

You are missing the point... I do not want us to be a member of the same club that outright murders people... in our supposedly Christian country... I bet you are a right to lifer too.... yet have no issue with retroactive abortion.. even of innocent people

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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I am good with just not murdering people... especially state sponsored murder..... YMMV

Do you still consider it state sponsored murder if you lock someone up and let them die slowly of gang green, leprosy, meningitis, or hepatitis? Technically you didn't kill them, you just kept them incarcerated.

Last I checked... our system does not allow for that.... in our prison system. If it is.... prosecute the jailors or wardens for abusing their positions of authority for allowing the abuse.

I'm not talking about our prison system, I'm talking about others.

If you are going to hold other countries up in such high regard and call them morally superior to us because they don't have the death penalty, then what about all the other aspects of the countries judicial system?

A lot of countries, like the Philippines and Mexico, only think they have the responsibility to lock you up. Anything after that, like eating, is on you.

Yet some people will say that because they don't have the death penalty, their judicial system is superior.

It's kind of like saying that Cuba's health care is superior, just because the state provides it. Never mind that everyone who can get health care else where, goes elsewhere.....

You are missing the point... I do not want us to be a member of the same club that outright murders people... in our supposedly Christian country... I bet you are a right to lifer too.... yet have no issue with retroactive abortion.. even of innocent people

You are welcome to pack up and move to a country that does not have capital punishment.
I, for one, am proud to live in a country that rewards it's most heinous criminals with an execution and not a warm bed, three squares and health care for life.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Amazon 7]

I expect nothing more from you and your ilk...Conservatives... conserving barbarism... murdering one innocent prisoner at a time.

Yeah.... you guys can't even support helping those who need it... so "christian" of yall.

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Actually we prefer to call it executing guilty people but you can call it what you wish. An executed criminal never killed again.
Don't expect me to "do the christian thing." I'm agnostic.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Amazon 7]

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Actually we prefer to call it executing guilty people but you can call it what you wish. An executed criminal never killed again.
Don't expect me to "do the christian thing." I'm agnostic.

It really pisses you off to be on the wrong side of history on so many things doesn't it. Your childrens children will look at you and those like you with disgust.

[loumeinhart 0]

For the record I appreciate everyone keeping this on topic. I don't have enough information to formulate an opinion but I sure hope this guy was guilty.

Please continue to debate..

[Belgian_Draft 0]

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Actually we prefer to call it executing guilty people but you can call it what you wish. An executed criminal never killed again.
Don't expect me to "do the christian thing." I'm agnostic.

It really pisses you off to be on the wrong side of history on so many things doesn't it. Your childrens children will look at you and those like you with disgust.

History will show whether or not I am "on the wrong side" and it is true that they may someday look at me with disgust. Maybe. But people already look at bleeding heart liberals who have ruined this country with disgust. Of that there is no doubt.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[Amazon 7]

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Actually we prefer to call it executing guilty people but you can call it what you wish. An executed criminal never killed again.
Don't expect me to "do the christian thing." I'm agnostic.

It really pisses you off to be on the wrong side of history on so many things doesn't it. Your childrens children will look at you and those like you with disgust.

History will show whether or not I am "on the wrong side" and it is true that they may someday look at me with disgust. Maybe. But people already look at bleeding heart liberals who have ruined this country with disgust. Of that there is no doubt.

Only the morons who believe everything bad in their pitiful lives is due to a changing world, who are having to be dragged kicking and screaming away from hypocritical religious fundamentalism and barbarism. Of that... there is very little doubt indeed.

[SkyDekker 1,141]

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Better one innocent man be executed than ten guilty men go free to continue their murdering ways.

Unless of course that innocent man is you or one of your loved ones. Well, then obviously those bleeding heart liberals have ruined the justice system.

Wouldn't it be easier to test people for murderous tendencies and elliminate them before they could even commit the crime?

What's your price to catch the truly guilty?

[popsjumper 2]

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>Disagree. Executions are murder . . .

No, they're not. There are good arguments to be made against the death penalty. But if you have to resort to redefining words to make those arguments, you've already lost.

>Buy a dictionary.

Now that there's some irony.

Well, definitions aside, I think execution IS murder.
Dead is dead. YOU kill him or the "STATE" kills him...I don't recognize a difference.

If you want to punish someone, a life behind bars is more punishment than termination, IMO.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

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Better one innocent man be executed than ten guilty men go free to continue their murdering ways.

Boy, are WE diametrically opposed on this issue!

Maybe it would be a good idea for the cops to use the shotgun approach to catching crooks...

Round them all up, execute ALL of them to be sure we got the guilty ones. Screw the innocent. They just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
? Yes, I think so.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Butters 0]

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... murdering one innocent prisoner at a time.

So all prisoners are innocent? Maybe we should not only get rid of the death penalty but get rid of the entire judicial system ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[GeorgiaDon 340]

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Better one innocent man be executed than ten guilty men go free to continue their murdering ways.
Allowing murderers to go free knowing they will most likely kill again is just a cheap chicken-shit way of trying to wash our hands of the responsibility of death.
"Don't blame me, all I did was let them go free. THEY killed those 10 innocent people" gives a better feeling than "Yes, I executed an innocent man along with the 10 absolutely guilty ones".

Will you volunteer to be that "one innocent man"? Unbelievable that people who object so stridently to contributing one dime of their money towards health care or education for anyone else, would be so callous about demanding that random innocent people be deprived of their life so we can be sure that every factually guilty murderer is executed, even if we can't quite prove their guilt. No-one better touch your guns, but you're willing to sacrifice an innocent person's life to achieve some feeling of "safety"?

Also, there are alternatives between execution and going free. Being locked up for life for a crime you didn't commit is a tragedy, but at least there is always the hope of being exonerated. The standard of proof required to execute someone should be significantly higher than the "beyond a reasonable doubt" needed to convict.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[Butters 0]

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Well, definitions aside, I think execution IS murder.
Dead is dead. YOU kill him or the "STATE" kills him...I don't recognize a difference.

So all instances where the actions of one individual end the life of another is murder?

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If you want to punish someone, a life behind bars is more punishment than termination, IMO.

While the punishment should fit the crime we have to remember the other (and greater) point is to ensure the safety of society while rehabilitating the perpetrator. After all, punishment alone doesn't stop recidivism.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[jaybird18c 4]

It seems very odd to me that an angry, hostile, militant, anti-religious, atheist would feel the need to invoke scripture in an attempt to make their point (used incorrectly/mistranslated...but still...)

[jaybird18c 4]

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Unless of course that innocent man is you or one of your loved ones. Well, then obviously those bleeding heart liberals have ruined the justice system.

Wouldn't it be easier to test people for murderous tendencies and elliminate them before they could even commit the crime?

What's your price to catch the truly guilty?

That is a great point. Bleeding heart liberalism tends to break down when the rubber meets the road or "when it becomes personal."

[jgoose71 0]

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You are missing the point... I do not want us to be a member of the same club that outright murders people... in our supposedly Christian country... I bet you are a right to lifer too.... yet have no issue with retroactive abortion.. even of innocent people

I understand what you are saying. My point is it doesn't matter if they died by lethal injection or infection, dead is dead. Just some ways tend to have more suffering than others.

And just because you didn't actively partake in the killing of said criminal, doesn't make you any less responsible for his death. In these countries, yes they may be able to claim the moral high ground because they don't have the death penalty, but I would still much rather go through the American justice system than the Mexican justice system any day of the week. It is way more humane.

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[normiss 622]

Do you support abortion as well, or only state sponsored murder?

[jaybird18c 4]

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Do you support abortion as well, or only state sponsored murder?

Do you support abortion and, if so, to what degree?

[jakee 1,257]

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Better one innocent man be executed than ten guilty men go free to continue their murdering ways.

Excellent point! If only there was a third option

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Allowing murderers to go free knowing they will most likely kill again is just a cheap chicken-shit way of trying to wash our hands of the responsibility of death.
"Don't blame me, all I did was let them go free. THEY killed those 10 innocent people" gives a better feeling than "Yes, I executed an innocent man along with the 10 absolutely guilty ones".

And think how many more guilty men could be convicted if 'beyond reasonable doubt' was changed to 'balance of probability'? Sure a few more innocents might be caught in the net, but you can't make an omelette...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?