Does Cameron Get It? Or Will You Call Him a Bigot?

[rushmc 18]

Quote

UK's Cameron: Europe must wake up on extremism

Quote

MUNICH (AP) - Europe must stamp out intolerance of Western values within its own Muslim communities and far-right groups if it is to defeat the roots of terrorism, British Prime Minister David Cameron said Saturday.

Cameron told the annual Munich Security Conference that European governments have been too tolerant of some sectors of society that publicly oppose democracy or reject equal rights for all.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20110205/D9L6K1HG0.html

Quote

'We need to be a lot less tolerant towards Islamic extremists': Cameron calls for immigrants to respect British core values

Quote

David Cameron today pledged to make Britain ‘a lot less’ tolerant towards Islamic extremists who whip up hatred against the West.
In a major speech on terrorism, the Prime Minister argued that Britain has been too ‘passive’ towards organisations and preachers who poison the minds of young Muslims.
Mr Cameron said Britain needs to be less tolerant and more judgemental when faced with ideologies that threaten the country’s basic values.




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

***As Mr Cameron outlined his vision, he suggested there would be greater scrutiny of some Muslim groups which get public money but do little to tackle extremism.

Ministers should refuse to share platforms or engage with such groups, which should be denied access to public funds and barred from spreading their message in universities and prisons, he argued.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1353902/David-Cameron-Stop-tolerating-Islamic-extremists-respect-British-core-values.html



I think I like this guy

He gets it


(Now everybody can return to the non-bigotted posts on this site)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[airdvr 197]

Careful...you might get labeled

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Careful...you might get labeled

What?

Again???





Not much noise over one yet huh.....

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,122]

I'm not sure there's a best answer for that one.
Without diversity and multiculturalism, we wouldn't have Thanksgiving, Christmas, St. Patrick's Day, salsa dancing, Mexican food, Chinese food, or Chinatowns anywhere.

With too much, you end up with the problems that some see in Europe and here.

But who determines the "majority culture?" Because in Texas, at least, hispanics are already in the majority in some cities. Do they become the majority culture, or should it be driven by people from 1000 miles away who will never, ever go there?

America is really, really big. There are aspects of culture that have nothing to do with ethnic groups throughout the country (rural vs. city for example -- horsemanship is pretty meaningless if you live in Rhode Island, and bicycles are for kids when you live 10 miles from your nearest neighbor).

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Skyrad 0]

I actually agree with some of what he is saying. However he picked a very bad time to say it and needs to clarify just what he is talking about. Loose comments are not helpful. What are 'British core values' seeing as the UK has the highest rate of STD's, unmarried mothers, teenage pregnancies, binge drinking and drug problem in Europe (along with the highest heart disease and type II Diabetes rates) just what core values does he want Muslims to respect? Maybe they should integrate by letting their children run riot getting drunk and drugged up whilst being promiscuous and having no regard for either their health or consideration for the community in which they live. Then maybe he would be happy. Or maybe he still thinks that England is the land of Byron and Shelly where the gentle sound of leather on willow greets the quite air and genteel ladies take tea whilst young men punt along the river, in which case maybe he should take his head out of his arse and realise that we didn't all go to Eton.
That said I do feel that it would be good to have a stronger inclusive identity of the new Britain, one to which all colours and creeds can identify with. Because Englishmen come in all colours these days.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Bolas 5]

If he's going to walk that walk, he needs to target all religion.

Otherwise it just comes across as "my imaginary friend is better than yours."

Islam really doesn't do anything the other religions don't. It just does them more and more intensely at times.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[StreetScooby 5]

Quote

What are 'British core values' seeing as the UK has the highest rate of STD's, unmarried mothers, teenage pregnancies, binge drinking and drug problem in Europe ...

The products of a nanny state?

We are all engines of karma

[airdvr 197]

So far....

2 gets it
2 bigot
2 undecideds

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[rushmc 18]

Quote

I'm not sure there's a best answer for that one.
Without diversity and multiculturalism, we wouldn't have Thanksgiving, Christmas, St. Patrick's Day, salsa dancing, Mexican food, Chinese food, or Chinatowns anywhere.

With too much, you end up with the problems that some see in Europe and here.

But who determines the "majority culture?" Because in Texas, at least, hispanics are already in the majority in some cities. Do they become the majority culture, or should it be driven by people from 1000 miles away who will never, ever go there?

America is really, really big. There are aspects of culture that have nothing to do with ethnic groups throughout the country (rural vs. city for example -- horsemanship is pretty meaningless if you live in Rhode Island, and bicycles are for kids when you live 10 miles from your nearest neighbor).

Wendy P.

We are Americans
Others can embrace it or not
Can they keep what is important to them (others)?
Yes

But that is not the problem
We are being asked to embrace what is important to others

Anything else is just wishy washy mulitcultural liberalism

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Quote

If he's going to walk that walk, he needs to target all religion.

Otherwise it just comes across as "my imaginary friend is better than yours."

Islam really doesn't do anything the other religions don't. It just does them more and more intensely at times.

So
If I get what you are saying

All other current religions wiith extreme factions want to kill or destroy all non-believers

OK

I get it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Quote

I actually agree with some of what he is saying. However he picked a very bad time to say it and needs to clarify just what he is talking about. Loose comments are not helpful. What are 'British core values' seeing as the UK has the highest rate of STD's, unmarried mothers, teenage pregnancies, binge drinking and drug problem in Europe (along with the highest heart disease and type II Diabetes rates) just what core values does he want Muslims to respect? Maybe they should integrate by letting their children run riot getting drunk and drugged up whilst being promiscuous and having no regard for either their health or consideration for the community in which they live. Then maybe he would be happy. Or maybe he still thinks that England is the land of Byron and Shelly where the gentle sound of leather on willow greets the quite air and genteel ladies take tea whilst young men punt along the river, in which case maybe he should take his head out of his arse and realise that we didn't all go to Eton.
That said I do feel that it would be good to have a stronger inclusive identity of the new Britain, one to which all colours and creeds can identify with. Because Englishmen come in all colours these days.

when would be a good time?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Bolas 5]

Quote

Quote

If he's going to walk that walk, he needs to target all religion.

Otherwise it just comes across as "my imaginary friend is better than yours."

Islam really doesn't do anything the other religions don't. It just does them more and more intensely at times.

So
If I get what you are saying

All other current religions wiith extreme factions want to kill or destroy all non-believers

OK

I get it

Some do, some don't.

All religions use unprovable stories and unprovable afterlife rewards and punishments as a primary control technique. Just because that control and power isn't always used for bad things doesn't mean it's any less powerful or potentially dangerous if it's something that person wouldn't normally do.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

I actually agree with some of what he is saying. However he picked a very bad time to say it and needs to clarify just what he is talking about. Loose comments are not helpful. What are 'British core values' seeing as the UK has the highest rate of STD's, unmarried mothers, teenage pregnancies, binge drinking and drug problem in Europe (along with the highest heart disease and type II Diabetes rates) just what core values does he want Muslims to respect? Maybe they should integrate by letting their children run riot getting drunk and drugged up whilst being promiscuous and having no regard for either their health or consideration for the community in which they live. Then maybe he would be happy. Or maybe he still thinks that England is the land of Byron and Shelly where the gentle sound of leather on willow greets the quite air and genteel ladies take tea whilst young men punt along the river, in which case maybe he should take his head out of his arse and realise that we didn't all go to Eton.
That said I do feel that it would be good to have a stronger inclusive identity of the new Britain, one to which all colours and creeds can identify with. Because Englishmen come in all colours these days.

when would be a good time?

Two days later would have been less contriversial

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[wmw999 2,122]

What does it mean to be American?

Christian? White? Rural? I can think of many Americans that don't fit any of those.

English-speaking? That's a little more defining, but there are a lot of Canadians who speak English, too.

Do you have to like Wonder Bread (yuck). Hate quiche? Think the French are cheese-eating cowards?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Guest]

Quote

Quote

Quote

If he's going to walk that walk, he needs to target all religion.

Otherwise it just comes across as "my imaginary friend is better than yours."

Islam really doesn't do anything the other religions don't. It just does them more and more intensely at times.

So
If I get what you are saying

All other current religions wiith extreme factions want to kill or destroy all non-believers

OK

I get it

Some do, some don't.

All religions use unprovable stories and unprovable afterlife rewards and punishments as a primary control technique. Just because that control and power isn't always used for bad things doesn't mean it's any less powerful or potentially dangerous if it's something that person wouldn't normally do.

+1 agree, with some exceptions. AFAIK, Buddhism does not contain a punishment other than "do over", but that is considered a temporary setback on the path to enlightenment, nirvana, etc. Don't see how a philosophy such as that, which does not contain the usual supernatural elements (although there are metaphysical ones) can be twisted as so many others are, and used as a force for controlling and manipulating the masses. Communism isn't a religion, but it has elements that invoke religious zeal in its adherents.

"The Force has a powerful influence on the weak-minded." Spoken in a work of fiction, but truer words were never uttered.
.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[Coreece 190]

Quote

Buddhism does not contain a punishment other than "do over"

How convenient.

I bet he didn't do this again:

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x70/AnthonyMarr/Buddhistmonkonfire-windowslivewrite.jpg

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I actually agree with some of what he is saying. However he picked a very bad time to say it and needs to clarify just what he is talking about. Loose comments are not helpful. What are 'British core values' seeing as the UK has the highest rate of STD's, unmarried mothers, teenage pregnancies, binge drinking and drug problem in Europe (along with the highest heart disease and type II Diabetes rates) just what core values does he want Muslims to respect?

off the top of the head, women's rights (and honor killings in particular) and freedom of expression without risk of being killed for it? (reference in particular to Mohamed cartoons). You need to go back to the 19th century to see that sort of crap from Christian sects.

Self inflicted punishments from acts of vice don't concern me nearly so much. I can choose to stop drinking, to use a condom, pass on narcotics.

[Coreece 190]

Quote

off the top of the head, women's rights (and honor killings in particular) and freedom of expression without risk of being killed for it?

There should already be laws in place to deal with killers.

Not all humans are humane, and they kill for a multitude of reasons.

Quote

You need to go back to the 19th century to see that sort of crap from Christian sects.

You only have to go back less than an hour ago to see that a human killed another human for whatever reason.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

You need to go back to the 19th century to see that sort of crap from Christian sects.

***
Guess you never heard about all the attacks on abortion clinics, Dr's and Nurses. Never heard of Wako either I guess.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[jgoose71 0]

Quote

I actually agree with some of what he is saying. However he picked a very bad time to say it and needs to clarify just what he is talking about. Loose comments are not helpful. What are 'British core values' seeing as the UK has the highest rate of STD's, unmarried mothers, teenage pregnancies, binge drinking and drug problem in Europe (along with the highest heart disease and type II Diabetes rates) just what core values does he want Muslims to respect? Maybe they should integrate by letting their children run riot getting drunk and drugged up whilst being promiscuous and having no regard for either their health or consideration for the community in which they live. Then maybe he would be happy. Or maybe he still thinks that England is the land of Byron and Shelly where the gentle sound of leather on willow greets the quite air and genteel ladies take tea whilst young men punt along the river, in which case maybe he should take his head out of his arse and realise that we didn't all go to Eton.
That said I do feel that it would be good to have a stronger inclusive identity of the new Britain, one to which all colours and creeds can identify with. Because Englishmen come in all colours these days.

I agree that Englishmen, along with Americans, come in all colors and creeds. I think the questions kind of asinine though.

Do we really need to point out that the things that need to be left behind are the preaching of hate, intolerance, and violence towards others? Sharia law has some very extreme, one-sided laws that need to be left behind. Is anyone going to argue that the appropriate penalty for converting to Christianity should be beheading?

People generally leave their old countries to find a better life. Why then do they also bring the traditions that created the life they are trying to escape? (I.E. honor killings. Is that really OK?)

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[DARK 0]

i like him alright he seems more straight talking then most

his ted talk from before he became prime minister is very good aswell

[Coreece 190]

Quote

Quote

You need to go back to the 19th century to see that sort of crap from Christian sects.

***
Guess you never heard about all the attacks on abortion clinics, Dr's and Nurses. Never heard of Wako either I guess.

The FBI has ways to deal with these nutcases.

Detroit Mosque Leader Killed in FBI Raid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3D9hnn_rlLo

I found these staments from the video to be extremely relavent.

"...no mater what religion, people disenfranchised can group together...for years and years (they)become more and more frustrated and the anger builds. This is a venue to express political discontent."

Fedearal Agent:
"We are asking the public to not link this to mainstream muslims, mosques, or facilities here in Detroit...this is a very radical hybrid ideology..."

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

Quote

Is anyone going to argue that the appropriate penalty for converting to Christianity should be beheading?

Well, I know there are many liberals here that probably wouldn't argue against it.

Quote

People generally leave their old countries to find a better life. Why then do they also bring the traditions that created the life they are trying to escape? (I.E. honor killings. Is that really OK?)

Most people do leave those behind...for others it is their reason for being here, but as I said earlier we have ways to deal with killers.

Also, as shown in the video I posted above, it's not always immigrants that are the problem, but natural born citizens who convert to a "radical hybrid ideology" motivated by "political discontent."

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[VAPA 0]

It's an interesting question. Reminds me of one of my personal heroes, Ben Franklin. He was very concerned about the German influx into the U.S. and the fact they didn't even speak the language.

Personally, I think we as "Americans" should accept a few basic things that are essential to America, while not necessarily all Americans. One is the Constitution of the United States, another is the Declaration of Independence. Take from those two essential American documents the values that define America, and make the case to all Americans. It shouldn't be hard to do, especially if our government and our citizens start actually appreciating them instead of paying them lip service. Those values when understood, practiced, and taught/shared in our education systems will defeat any radical ideology that comes into our country. Our values are very inclusive of so many things, cultures, practices and beliefs. It is this inclusive democratic ideal (while protecting the essential civil/human rights of minorities), that makes our values so great.

But when we just pay lip service with cute bumper stickers, and political speeches and yet don't back those values up with our actions...well, then the essential and true "America" will not be able to withstand the non-American values that will infiltrate it -- and much of that infiltration starts with Americans already here, who fell asleep at the wheel and forgot their birthrights (or more than likely, feel asleep and forgot to teach it to their children).

[Skyrad 0]

Quote

Quote

Is anyone going to argue that the appropriate penalty for converting to Christianity should be beheading?

Well, I know there are many liberals here that probably wouldn't argue against it.

Quote

People generally leave their old countries to find a better life. Why then do they also bring the traditions that created the life they are trying to escape? (I.E. honor killings. Is that really OK?)

Most people do leave those behind...for others it is their reason for being here, but as I said earlier we have ways to deal with killers.

Also, as shown in the video I posted above, it's not always immigrants that are the problem, but natural born citizens who convert to a "radical hybrid ideology" motivated by "political discontent."

Exactly so.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca