Another Court Rules Obama Care Unconstitutional

[okalb 78]

Quote

What company?

The company is Celtic which is part of the PHCS network. It is a personal policy since nobody would even write a group plan given my partner's condition. Here is the best part. He works for another company so he has coverage through them. Even if he declined coverage, nobody would write a policy for the business because he is a partner and he has leukemia. I was finally forced to get an individual plan and this is what I am stuck with.

One problem is that very few insurance companies will even write policies in FL at this point. Most of them have pulled out of the state because there are too many old people and it costs too much to keep them healthy,

My partner has a bigger problem. He would like to leave the company he works for at some point soon and work full time for our business but he can't. He can't leave the company he works for because he will lose his coverage and nobody else will cover him. The only way he could leave is if he went to work for another large company with a group plan (which we can't get because of him). So he is stuck in his job because he can't get insurance and he can't get insurance because he is sick. He has been in remission for 8 years but that doesn't matter, he will always have leukemia.

Again, I don't know the answer but the system is very broken. I said in my last post, we have money and can pay and we are going through this. I can't even imagine what it would be like if we didn't have money.

Time flies like an arrow....fruit flies like a banana

[billvon 2,400]

>ObamaCare/HillaryCare - Illegal
>RomneyCare - Totally Legal.

Hmm. Yet there have been far more legal challenges to Romneycare than Obamacare! By that standard, Obamacare is considerably more legal.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>ObamaCare/HillaryCare - Illegal
>RomneyCare - Totally Legal.

Hmm. Yet there have been far more legal challenges to Romneycare than Obamacare! By that standard, Obamacare is considerably more legal.

From what I understand, anyone can sue, anyone can bring a challenge to court - legally justified or not is determined at the end of the trial.

I would think numbers depends more on the motives and fanaticism of those bringing the challenges. And legality on whether the challenges were broad based or picking at the edges, and other things, but hey, I'm just a farmboy, what do I know?

I would have thought 'legality' would depend upon compliance with the law, not just the sum total of court cases. But I'll have to take your word on it.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,400]

>From what I understand, anyone can sue, anyone can bring a challenge to
>court - legally justified or not is determined at the end of the trial.

Exactly. By that standard, neither plan is illegal.

[davjohns 1]

Mmmmm...I'm not as up to speed as I would like on the whole healthcare costs particulars. But it seems to me that we have already socialized healthcare. Insurance is a way to distribute the costs of an individual's distribution over many other people. That's socialism.

Seems to me that we need to find a way to get rid of the insurance companies altogether, let the lack of red tape help reduce costs, let supply and demand take it's toll as well on costs, and pay our own way. Sure, pharmaceutical companies, medical equipment companies, doctors and hospitals might make less profit. So?

How did people get healthcare before government and insurance companies made it this mess?

I'm just hoping legal insurance doesn't get off the ground and get the government involved there. I want to return to law practice when I leave active duty.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

>From what I understand, anyone can sue, anyone can bring a challenge to
>court - legally justified or not is determined at the end of the trial.

Exactly. By that standard, neither plan is illegal.

are you equating 'challenges' to 'rulings'?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Insurance is a way to distribute the costs of an individual's distribution over many other people. That's socialism.

one bit - insurance is supposed to be voluntary participation - socialism is involuntary

one is individual choice, the other is society deciding for each individual

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

>ObamaCare/HillaryCare - Illegal
>RomneyCare - Totally Legal.

Hmm. Yet there have been far more legal challenges to Romneycare than Obamacare! By that standard, Obamacare is considerably more legal.

how many rulings have there been against Romneycare?

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

How did people get healthcare before government and insurance companies made it this mess?

It used to be people paid for medical care and had insurance to cover catastrophes. It's much like homeowner's insurance today. If your rain gutters need replacing, you pay for it. If your window breaks you pay for it. If a tree branch punctures your siding, you pay for it. If a tree crashes through your master bedroom, insurance covers it.

Then, insurance came in to say, "Pay us a lot of money every month and we'll cover you for things with a small co-pay." Then the government moved in and said, "We shall cover the old folks and call it 'Medicare' and we shall determine how much doctors get paid, and it shall not be much." And the insurance companies said, "And we shall base our payments on Medicare codes and on the same amounts as Medicare."

And the People smiled, for thy coughs and aches cost them very little and created increased demand. And the insurance companies paid little because that's what Medicare paid.

And then Lot came to get insurance for his wife. "My wife is not doing well. She was told what to do but she did not heed advice given to her and is hard and dessicated but tastes good with french fries." And the insurance companies said, "we will not pay for her to be healed, for she was not insured when she turned to salt. This is worse than diabetes."

And then the government said, "Insurance companies suck ass. Look at the wife of Lot - an innocent victim of insurance companies who will not pay to restore her electrolyte imbalance. Therefore, let us pass a law stating that all people must be part of insurance, thus giving everyone something to bitch about and all persons, sick, well, living or dead shall be covered."

And the voices of Satan said, "But a federal requirement to do so would be a violation of the Commerce Clause." And the do-gooders said, "The Constitution is old and shouldn't work anymore." And they passed the law.

And then they rested, for they said, "Insurance is good." And the Pharmaceuticals smiled, for they knew that it was good for them. And the people were happy for they would be covered, except for the large majority of people who had done things right and said, "Lord - we are melancholy, for although I am right, I am considered a liar; although I am guiltless, the arrow inflicts an incurable wound. I get not what I earned but am made to give to others."

And the government said: "Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? Where were you when I laid the plan's foundation? Tell me if you understand. Who marked off the dimensions? Shut your mouth, boy, for only you may finance this."

And a year later, the people were uncovered and still bitching.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[dmcoco84 4]

Quote

>ObamaCare/HillaryCare - Illegal
>RomneyCare - Totally Legal.

Hmm. Yet there have been far more legal challenges to Romneycare than Obamacare! By that standard, Obamacare is considerably more legal.

You have a short memory...

(Healthcare)
Federal - Illegal.

State - Legal.

Enumerated powers... Federalist System.

Ring a bell?

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Quote

>ObamaCare/HillaryCare - Illegal
>RomneyCare - Totally Legal.

Hmm. Yet there have been far more legal challenges to Romneycare than Obamacare! By that standard, Obamacare is considerably more legal.

You have a short memory...

(Healthcare)
Federal - Illegal.

State - Legal.

Enumerated powers... Federalist System.

Ring a bell?

Lincoln and the War BeTwixt the States ......................Ring a bell???

[dmcoco84 4]

Quote

Seems to me that we need to find a way to get rid of the insurance companies altogether, let the lack of red tape help reduce costs, let supply and demand take it's toll as well on costs, and pay our own way. Sure, pharmaceutical companies, medical equipment companies, doctors and hospitals might make less profit. So?

At the least... you would need to have insurance companies to offer catastrophic insurance. Very few could afford the costs associated with a major head injury (BASE, skydiving, FALL, Car Collision, ect): extended stay in ICU and recover.

There are definitely some major issues with insurance companies... but that doesn't mean we do away with them.

There are many Chinese food restaurants that are wicked nasty and full of health code violations... should we ban them all?

No... that's not the Free Market.

[dmcoco84 4]

Quote

Lincoln and the War BeTwixt the States ......................Ring a bell???

Ok... And?

[dmcoco84 4]

Wow... ok then.

Well... this much is true:

It used to be people paid for medical care and had insurance to cover catastrophes. It's much like homeowner's insurance today. If your rain gutters need replacing, you pay for it. If your window breaks you pay for it. If a tree branch punctures your siding, you pay for it. If a tree crashes through your master bedroom, insurance covers it.

Then, insurance came in to say, "Pay us a lot of money every month and we'll cover you for things with a small co-pay."

If you don't speak of FDR... you are leaving out an enormous chunk of history.

[Lefty 0]

Quote

Quote

How did people get healthcare before government and insurance companies made it this mess?

It used to be people paid for medical care and had insurance to cover catastrophes. It's much like homeowner's insurance today. If your rain gutters need replacing, you pay for it. If your window breaks you pay for it. If a tree branch punctures your siding, you pay for it. If a tree crashes through your master bedroom, insurance covers it.

Then, insurance came in to say, "Pay us a lot of money every month and we'll cover you for things with a small co-pay." Then the government moved in and said, "We shall cover the old folks and call it 'Medicare' and we shall determine how much doctors get paid, and it shall not be much." And the insurance companies said, "And we shall base our payments on Medicare codes and on the same amounts as Medicare."

And the People smiled, for thy coughs and aches cost them very little and created increased demand. And the insurance companies paid little because that's what Medicare paid.

And then Lot came to get insurance for his wife. "My wife is not doing well. She was told what to do but she did not heed advice given to her and is hard and dessicated but tastes good with french fries." And the insurance companies said, "we will not pay for her to be healed, for she was not insured when she turned to salt. This is worse than diabetes."

And then the government said, "Insurance companies suck ass. Look at the wife of Lot - an innocent victim of insurance companies who will not pay to restore her electrolyte imbalance. Therefore, let us pass a law stating that all people must be part of insurance, thus giving everyone something to bitch about and all persons, sick, well, living or dead shall be covered."

And the voices of Satan said, "But a federal requirement to do so would be a violation of the Commerce Clause." And the do-gooders said, "The Constitution is old and shouldn't work anymore." And they passed the law.

And then they rested, for they said, "Insurance is good." And the Pharmaceuticals smiled, for they knew that it was good for them. And the people were happy for they would be covered, except for the large majority of people who had done things right and said, "Lord - we are melancholy, for although I am right, I am considered a liar; although I am guiltless, the arrow inflicts an incurable wound. I get not what I earned but am made to give to others."

And the government said: "Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? Where were you when I laid the plan's foundation? Tell me if you understand. Who marked off the dimensions? Shut your mouth, boy, for only you may finance this."

And a year later, the people were uncovered and still bitching.

Probably the best explanation yet.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[Lindsey 0]

Quote

How did people get healthcare before government and insurance companies made it this mess?

Chickens. At least that's how it was done around here. Chickens and pigs. An occasional cow. Now it's illegal for us to take anything besides money.

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[normiss 622]

In my experience...up until about 12 years ago my health care was always a given benefit at no cost to me from the employers I worked for. Beautiful, awesome, fully covered for everything, well baby care, no money out of pocket coverage, dental coverage, eye care coverage.

Life was good then.
dammit.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

In my experience...up until about 12 years ago my health care was always a given benefit at no cost to me from the employers I worked for. Beautiful, awesome, fully covered for everything, well baby care, no money out of pocket coverage, dental coverage, eye care coverage.

Life was good then.
dammit.

+1