Another thug cop? No?

[normiss 624]

SNAP!

I'm still on the fence here.
One, I cannot see an 84 year old man as a threat to someone with a baton, a tazer, and a gun who has been trained to defend themselves and take someone down.
Second, who cares if he was over the limit on alcohol?

This sure is a hot topic here though!

[rhaig 0]

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SNAP!

I'm still on the fence here.
One, I cannot see an 84 year old man as a threat to someone with a baton, a tazer, and a gun who has been trained to defend themselves and take someone down.
Second, who cares if he was over the limit on alcohol?

This sure is a hot topic here though!

hot topic in Austin right now is the cop who ran a red light while looking at his dispatch system and ended up injuring a 74yo man in an accident.

Can't find the link yet.

--
Rob

[Kennedy 0]

If you can't see a senior citizen as a threat, then I'm glad (for your sake) that you're not an officer. Seniors can be a threat like anyone else. And if it was just the officer versus the drunk and his drunk buddies I could understand your doubts. However, the guy who called for a tow and the tow truck driver corroborate the officer's statement.

Also if the senior was grabbing the officer and about to assault him, what would you like the officer to do? He used his bare hands to lay the guy on the ground. Would you rather hebpepper spray him? Tase him? People need to understand that no use of force ever looks good. The best use of force prevents suspect officer and bystanders from getting hurt, is over quikly, and ends with the suspect in custody. But it never looks good.

Also, let's look at the circumstances:
1 suspect parked illegally.
2 suspect got completely loaded.
3 suspect interfered with tow truck driver.
4 suspect had his car at a bar and was .187 bac. Who else thinks it likely that he was going to drive drunk when he left?
5 store owner, tow truck driver, witness officer, and involved officer all tell the same story.

The suspect had plenty of chances to avoid this. He could have parked legally or not driven. He could have not interfered with the tow truck driver. He could have not touched the officer. He could have stopped when the officer told him to back off.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[livendive 8]

Meh...sad story. The officer could have exercised a bit more caution, given the guy's age, but it sounds like some defensive action was appropriate, and one can't always control the outcome of such an altercation.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Amazon 7]

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Meh...sad story. The officer could have exercised a bit more caution, given the guy's age, but it sounds like some defensive action was appropriate, and one can't always control the outcome of such an altercation.

Blues,
Dave

I agree...

[rehmwa 2]

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The officer could have exercised a bit more caution,

I wonder how anyone could make that assessment if they weren't right there within a couple feet. But I like your post.

any time someone says "a bit more", "a bit less", etc - I always feel like they are just staying on the safe, but uninformed, side of positions. You see it a ton with very conservative engineers. A little bit more safety margin is always good, right? Until the design doesn't work. Then just a bit more, I mean, really, just in case.....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[livendive 8]

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The officer could have exercised a bit more caution,

I wonder how anyone could make that assessment if they weren't right there within a couple feet.

Presumably a take-down that didn't involve a broken neck was within the realm of possible, and "a bit" more caution might have resulted in such an outcome.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rhaig 0]

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Quote

The officer could have exercised a bit more caution,

I wonder how anyone could make that assessment if they weren't right there within a couple feet. But I like your post.

any time someone says "a bit more", "a bit less", etc - I always feel like they are just staying on the safe, but uninformed, side of positions. You see it a ton with very conservative engineers. A little bit more safety margin is always good, right? Until the design doesn't work. Then just a bit more, I mean, really, just in case.....

well we can't really say it was just the right amount of response or action since we weren't there.

At least with safety margin on an engineering project, you have design and function specs and know where too little and too much safety is, and you split the difference based on budget (that's all based off engineering classes from college, so I may be full of shit)

How about "it's a shame anyone was injured, but I'm glad everyone is alive."

--
Rob

[Amazon 7]

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Quote

Quote

The officer could have exercised a bit more caution,

I wonder how anyone could make that assessment if they weren't right there within a couple feet. But I like your post.

any time someone says "a bit more", "a bit less", etc - I always feel like they are just staying on the safe, but uninformed, side of positions. You see it a ton with very conservative engineers. A little bit more safety margin is always good, right? Until the design doesn't work. Then just a bit more, I mean, really, just in case.....

well we can't really say it was just the right amount of response or action since we weren't there.

At least with safety margin on an engineering project, you have design and function specs and know where too little and too much safety is, and you split the difference based on budget (that's all based off engineering classes from college, so I may be full of shit)

How about "it's a shame anyone was injured, but I'm glad everyone is alive."

Injuries like that to an elderly person.. can be a death sentence.... many can not recover from broken bones...or severe injuries...

I would like to think that the gang in blue would take the frailty of the elderly into account when they feel the need to get macho and let those hormones run with them... and body slam an 80+ person into the ground

[wmw999 2,153]

I'm also in the "we weren't there" crowd. It could be that it was supposed to be a gentle takedown that just got the wrong leverage at the wrong time.

I do know that people of that age are very capable of being drunk and belligerent.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 212]

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I'm also in the "we weren't there" crowd. It could be that it was supposed to be a gentle takedown that just got the wrong leverage at the wrong time.

I do know that people of that age are very capable of being drunk and belligerent.

Wendy P.

They don't even have to be drunk to be that belligerant.

For some reason they thnk they have the right to be assholes, not mention that they think it is their duty.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[skipbelt 0]

it's really difficult to win confrontations with police !

[wmw999 2,153]

you talking about police or old people?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[turtlespeed 212]

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you talking about police or old people?

Wendy P.

Yep.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[wolfriverjoe 1,354]

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it's really difficult to win confrontations with police !

You aren't going to "win" a confrontation with the police.
You aren't going to "win" a fight with them either.

Ever.

They have the power to "win" every time, and their authority requires that they not lose.

Even if they are wrong.

If they lose a fight, then everyone who thinks they are tough will fight them. If they lose a confrontation then everyone will be confrontational with them.

Smile, say "Yes, sir", get their badge number and call your lawyer.

It's a lot easier in the long run.

The OP is a good example of this.

If I read the account (including the "between the lines" stuff) then he was drunk and belligerent towards the cop. The cop couldn't back off, and the old dude wouldn't (or couldn't because he was drunk).
It's easy to say the cop could have been more gentle, but cocking your fist at a cop is going to get you slammed no matter who or how old you are.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[wmw999 2,153]

Part of why the police are effective is because people figure they will enforce. So consistency is everything.

Otherwise, there'd be way too many people trying to take a mile after being given an inch.

That doesn't make it OK for the police to be dicks or bullies, but it does mean that part of their job is being hardasses.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wolfriverjoe 1,354]

Quote

Part of why the police are effective is because people figure they will enforce. So consistency is everything.

Otherwise, there'd be way too many people trying to take a mile after being given an inch.

That doesn't make it OK for the police to be dicks or bullies, but it does mean that part of their job is being hardasses.

Wendy P.

Thank you. That's exactly how I meant it.

Sort of like the policy of breaking off high speed chases. While there are some very valid reasons for having the policy, I have heard of people who ran from the police and deliberately drove dangerously (running other cars off the road and such) in the hope that the cops would break off the chase and they (the runner) could get away.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[skycop 0]

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I'm also in the "we weren't there" crowd. It could be that it was supposed to be a gentle takedown that just got the wrong leverage at the wrong time.

I do know that people of that age are very capable of being drunk and belligerent.

Quit being reasonable! This is SC..............

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[freefalle 0]

if you dont want your ass beat keep your dick beaters to yourself. If your 84 and want yo fight like your 24 you might get your ass beat like your 24, Im just sayin.

Chuck Bryan

[normiss 624]

News reported last night that this man is now in a coma, the State Attorney is considering charges against the officer, and the 911 tapes of multiple callers were released.
All callers were angry on the calls that a cop just beat someone up.
The thick plotens.

Incidentally, the area this happened in is an area of unique restaurants, antique shops, art shops, etc...not a bad part of town by any means. Typically no trouble at all in this area.

It also sounds like the business owner explodes when people park in the parking lot where his grocery store is. "Customer service" at it's finest.


911 calls

[Meso 38]

The police make me sick...

People that support them will be going "But the police said what the officer in question did was true!"

Police will lie for each other over and over again. Don't expect to find a cop that will speak the truth if the truth means one of their own getting into trouble, they're few and far between.

By fighting in World War II that man is more of a hero than any of those frat-boy mentality cops.

You don't need a troubled area when there are police around. They'll be able to turn any situation into a bad one.

If the policeman in question was unable to subdue a man of that age in a more peaceful manner he doesn't deserve to be a cop anyway. My bet is that the old man went and gave him some verbal abuse and the cops ego got hurt and he needed to show his fellow officers he is in fact still a 'real man'.

[Kennedy 0]

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News reported last night that this man is now in a coma, the State Attorney is considering charges against the officer, and the 911 tapes of multiple callers were released.

If they said "we're looking into it, charges are a possibility if the officer was wrong," that's very different from "we're considering charges against the officer." Don't you think?

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All callers were angry on the calls that a cop just beat someone up.
The thick plotens.

Right, because the bar crowd is always reasonable and unbiased when one of their own is arrested...

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Incidentally, the area this happened in is an area of unique restaurants, antique shops, art shops, etc...not a bad part of town by any means. Typically no trouble at all in this area.

Typically no trouble at all in this area unless the bar is open and the patrons are parking where they shouldn't and harrassing tow truck drivers. You left out an important qualifier.

Quote

It also sounds like the business owner explodes when people park in the parking lot where his grocery store is. "Customer service" at it's finest.
911 calls

If it's their lot and they are a retail store, why should they be nice to people who are parking against their wishes and then going across the street to a bar? It sounds to me like the bar owner is the unreasonable one, abnd his patrons act just like him. Yelling at a grandmother? Real nice.

from the first 911 caller complaining about the store owners (second overall)

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They're legally right but they're harrassing people.

Yeah, that sounds reasonable. Parking on sidewalks, threatening store owners, ripping down signs, interfering with tow truck drivers...

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86 year old man, arguing about his car getting towed, he's been drinking, he touhced a police officer

So the pissed off bar owner just made the officer's case for him. The bar owner is a sarcastic asshole. I'm wondering, why the hell do these people keep calling 9-1-1? There are officers and supervisors and EMS already on scene. As I posted above, the drunk old man could have prevented all of this at several points.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[turtlespeed 212]

Don't you understand yet?

People are NOT responsibe for their own actions anymore.

The government is.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[normiss 624]

Apparently you missed the calls where the store owner is the one out of control. He was the one harassing the owners of vehicles complaining of towing. As any vehicle owner would most likely do - with varying levels of complaint of course.
The cars parked on the sidewalk and the other slots they called 911 over were not at the bar either.
It's not their lot. They have very few slots on the lot that serves for numerous businesses. It's a known problem in this area.
The majority of the 911 calls were from the grocery store, closely followed by the bar owner.
There is a serious parking problem in the entire area - seems to me THAT is the problem here. Compounded by idiots that feel 911 should handle parking issues.
No wonder people are angry.

[normiss 624]

and...
no charges against the civilian.