Andy9o8 0 #101 July 28, 2010 QuotePeople often find god in extreme situations. There are no atheists in foxholes!! I just thought that up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #102 July 28, 2010 QuoteMy mind relies on logic/science to explain things and this didn't mesh. Great. Can you give me the logical and scientific explanation of "The Big Bang"? There is so much we don't know about the creation of the universe and all the bodies. I find it odd that one can use science as proof that a supernatural body does not exist. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #103 July 28, 2010 Quote Quote People often find god in extreme situations. There are no atheists in foxholes!! I just thought that up. I heard Bill Mahr say that as well. Very true. I was going to say it but this is SC then I would have to spend 20 posts explaining that I understand that we have atheist in the armed services who sacrifice for others. You know how it goes here.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #104 July 28, 2010 QuoteQuoteMy mind relies on logic/science to explain things and this didn't mesh. Great. Can you give me the logical and scientific explanation of "The Big Bang"? There is so much we don't know about the creation of the universe and all the bodies. I find it odd that one can use science as proof that a supernatural body does not exist. That often-used line of discussion turns logic on its head. There is no intellectual burden to prove that the supernatural does not exist, or else it should be presumed that it might exist. Rather, the only burden is to prove that it does exist, or else it should be presumed to not exist. I cannot prove that scary monsters do not exist under my bed. But that does not mean that they might exist. They simply do not exist, period, and there is no burden upon me to prove that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #105 July 28, 2010 QuoteI find it odd that one can use science as proof that a supernatural body does not exist. No one uses science or anything as proof that a supernatural body does not exist. The absence of evidence of anything supernatural is enough. As soon as someone comes up with real evidence that can be tested scientifically that a supernatural being exists then I will believe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun 1 #106 July 28, 2010 QuoteI do have one question though - as atheists, have you ever wondered the 'what if... after death? What if what??? What if there is a god who will send me to eternal hell for noticing how hot my neighbor's husband is? What if there are worms that will slowly eat my brain if I am buried in the ground? What if I will have to spend eternity in a giant marshmallow if I didn't cut my toenails right while I was alive? I don't know... I didn't "become" an atheist. I've never believed in any kind of god, except maybe when I was so young that I believed anything that adults told me. But as such a large part of our society, of course I've thought about it. My only confusion lies in how so many other people can believe a certain religion while thinking that all the others are wrong. But no. I absolutely, 100%, no question, do not believe in "God," and I have no concerns that I may find out I'm wrong after I die. (If that's what you're asking.) However, I still try to be a good person for selfish reasons. My life is better when I am nice to other people. I am more at peace when I do things to help other people. It's not about worrying what's going to happen after I die; it's about enjoying the life that I have, and I have found that treating other people like crap is not conducive to my own happiness. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #107 July 28, 2010 Quote You will also now get people telling you that you were never Christian. I will assume that this comment has something to do with our last conversation....but why does that bother you so much? You said you understood the Bible, so I figured you'd agree with what I was talking about. I figured you would've understood what it says about this subject. If I was leaving Christianity, that would be the last thing with which I'd want to be associated...I'd say "you're right! I'm not like you people and never was...so just get the hell away from me you freaks." Going through the motions doesn't make you any more a Christian than going to the V.F.W hall makes you a Vet, or anymore than being a whoofu makes you a skydiver... One of the main characteristics of a Christian is persevering and finishing the race...fighting the good fight of faith. It's a fight, it's not an easy, undiscipled, give me what I want or else kinda thing. I think the analogy to running a race found in scripture really explains it all...discipline, training, sacrafice...not couch potato bliss. Quote Though what can be expected from people who manage to go their entire lives without seeing that something is fucked up with their pattern of thought. See, that's where we differ...It seems you were around Christianity at the begining of your life and than left at a rather young age... In my teen years, I pretty much knew I didn't believe like they did, so I left...It wasn't till I was much older that I realized my pattern of thought was messed up and that perhaps I really should get into that book again and see if there was something I missed....and there was...I missed the whole entire point. It's not about us and what we want...and it was very hard to accept...but: Luke 14:27-30 Whoever does not bear his own cross and come after me cannot be my disciple. For which of you, desiring to build a tower, does not first sit down and count the cost, whether he has enough to complete it? Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, saying, 'This man began to build and was not able to finish.' In a sense, it seems that you guys have counted the costs and perhaps you feel you don't have the faith it takes. I can tell you I counted the costs, and I'm still not sure I have what it takes...I just have to have faith that God will bring me through it...It's like Phil 1:6-"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion the day of Jesus Christ." Futheremore, Just some more verses that I feel are relavant, and in fact where relavant in my life: Luke 6:46-49 "Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord,' and not do what I tell you? Everyone who comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show you what he is like: he is like a man building a house, who dug deep and laid the foundation on the rock. And when a flood arose, the stream broke against that house and could not shake it, because it had been well built. But the one who hears and does not do them is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. When the stream broke against it, immediately it fell, and the ruin of that house was great." 2 Corinthians 8:9-12 For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though he was rich, yet for your sake he became poor, so that you by his poverty might become rich. And in this matter I give my judgment: this benefits you, who a year ago started not only to do this work but also to desire to do it. So now finish doing it as well, so that your readiness in desiring it may be matched by your completing it out of what you have. For if the readiness is there, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have. 2 Timothy 4-7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith. Quote In my experience, once you have doubts and are willing to openly look at information the fact that there is no God will just become more and more apparent. Of course...many say the opposite is also true. EDIT Edited to change a misspelling that would've gave the wrong idea... original sentence: I can tell you I counted the costs, and I'm still now sure I have what it takes. corrected sentence: I can tell you I counted the costs, and I'm still not sure I have what it takes. ...but who knows, maybe it was a freudian slip...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #108 July 28, 2010 QuoteThe bible does promise though that 'god' will meet your needs. Well, this has not been my experience Yes, he will meet your needs, not necessarilly everything you want. QuoteAsk yourself this question - is it a complete coincidence that so many people in prison 'come to Jesus" ? Perhaps that is the case because the majority of people in prison are people that failed miserably in life. No, It just puts them in a position that allows God to work in their life... It's like the the saying that it's easier for a camel to get through an eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into heaven. The idea here is that the camel had to be completely unloaded of it's baggage to enter through the "needle" gate in order to enter Jerusalem....it was very difficult. It's hard for a rich man to even see the need for God and it's even harder to unload all that baggage. Now this doesn't mean being rich is a sin or that it's wrong...it just depends on your prespective of it. The same idea is taught with the analogy of the narrow gate: Matthew 7:13-14 Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few. Again, the idea here is that it's hard...you have to agonize to get through it. It's like you can't take anything else along with you...you need to be stripped of all baggage...and only few actually see the worth in going through all the trouble, while most just take the easy way. All prison does is strip you of everything so it's easier to accept what God is saying. ...but it must be said that in my experiece, many of the prisoners didn't really seem to get it either. Many just didn't have anything better to do, and nothing changed. Some felt it would just make them feel good by just acknowledging God, as if that made them a better person. Others used it out of context to justify their own vengeance. While others used it as if they were gonna get everything they wanted when they got out. Others just used the thin pages to roll up a joint...Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,255 #109 July 28, 2010 QuoteI heard Bill Mahr say that as well. Very true. I was going to say it but this is SC then I would have to spend 20 posts explaining that I understand that we have atheist in the armed services who sacrifice for others. You know how it goes here. What, you mean there are people here who will call you on saying something you know is wrong?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #110 July 28, 2010 QuoteThere is no intellectual burden to prove that the supernatural does not exist, or else it should be presumed that it might exist. Rather, the only burden is to prove that it does exist, or else it should be presumed to not exist. Great, so what exactly is the proof behind the "Big Bang"? How about the proof of what is beyond what we can currently observe in the universe? There are a lot of forces that science cannot explain or provide proof for. This doesn't prove there is a supernatural being, it also doesn't disprove it. Which brings us back to my original post. Stating that you don't believe in a God or supernatural being because your mind relies on logic and science is silly. They all have assumptions at the very core of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #111 July 28, 2010 Quoteso what exactly is the proof behind the "Big Bang"? How about the proof of what is beyond what we can currently observe in the universe? There are a lot of forces that science cannot explain or provide proof for. Just because our species may not yet have developed its science, technology and general fund of knowledge (and perhaps even our species' level of intelligence at this stage of human evolution) to the point that present-day humans can prove everything in the universe, does not mean that it is undecipherable or unprovable; just that it hasn't been fully deciphered or proven yet. QuoteThis doesn't prove there is a supernatural being, it also doesn't disprove it. Again: you're using circular logic. The supernatural is not capable of being either "proved" or "disproved" from a scientific perspective; but that does not mean that it must logically follow that the supernatural might exist. By that logic, any any abstraction, any figment of the imagination, no matter how wild, can be (and unfortunately often is) claimed to "possibly exist" simply because it is impossible to scientifically "disprove" its claimed existence. Harry Potter's magic is real. Of course it's not. Can you prove that magic is not real? No; it's an abstract concept that is not capable of being disproved. Well, if you can't disprove it, then that means it might exist. Uh, no. This is all Logic 101. As I've said in other threads about this, at some point one either accepts this basic point of logic or one does not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rstanley0312 0 #112 July 28, 2010 Quote If religions had otherwise few negative effects, it would largely be a moot point and you'd never hear from Atheists, but as long as people are dying simply because of religious differences, we argue to try and make the world a better place. If your religion gives you a sense of purpose and doesn't intrude in the lives of those who don't believe as you do, then I'm happy that you do have that sense of purpose for yourself. As for extremists, I don't know of any time an extremist Atheist has killed people because they believed in religion. Nope they just kill for other reasons Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it. Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000 www.fundraiseadventure.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #113 July 28, 2010 QuoteJust because our species may not yet have developed its science, technology and general fund of knowledge (and perhaps even our species' level of intelligence at this stage of human evolution) to the point that present-day humans can prove everything in the universe, does not mean that it is undecipherable or unprovable; just that it hasn't been fully deciphered or proven yet. Funny enough you just summed up my point. Both theology and science have assumptions at the base of it. One does not fully exclude the other. I am open to the idea they can coexist, in some form. Hence the statement: I believe in science, therefor I do not believe in God is silly. (which was my original point) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #114 July 28, 2010 QuoteGreat, so what exactly is the proof behind the "Big Bang"? How about the proof of what is beyond what we can currently observe in the universe? It begins with Doppler. Lemme ask you this . . . do you believe in the technology of radar?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #115 July 28, 2010 What assumptions do you think science is based on? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lurch 0 #116 July 28, 2010 "Yes, he will meet your needs" Bullshit. Amputees really, really NEED the limbs they've lost. Neither your god nor any of the others ever dreamed up will ever restore those lost limbs. Pray, beg, go into sobbing hysterics... your god's answer to the prayer "Please I want my leg back!" will always be "No." No god will do SHIT for your needs. Provide for them yourself... or do without. -BLive and learn... or die, and teach by example. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #117 July 28, 2010 QuoteWhat assumptions do you think science is based on? Assumption #1. Witches float. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #118 July 28, 2010 QuoteQuotePeople often find god in extreme situations. There are no atheists in foxholes!! I just thought that up. Wrong (on both counts). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #119 July 28, 2010 QuoteQuoteWhat assumptions do you think science is based on? Assumption #1. Witches float. and ..... Very small rocks. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #120 July 28, 2010 QuoteQuoteWhat assumptions do you think science is based on? Assumption #1. Witches float. Oh yeah! forgot about that one! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #121 July 28, 2010 Quote People often find god in extreme situations. ,..or in a pipe full of salvia. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SivaGanesha 2 #122 July 29, 2010 QuoteThere are no atheists in foxholes!! Which is rather ironic because there usually isn't much evidence of god's existence in foxholes either."It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #123 July 29, 2010 Two words for you: Sam Harris http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4erANdR9Yw"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mxracer194 0 #124 July 29, 2010 Watch the show BULLSHIT by Pen and Teller. Theres an episode about the bible. OMG that will open up your eyes! Its on YOUTUBE. They tell you what chapters and verses say some terrible things too. Seriously, watch it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tr027 0 #125 July 29, 2010 QuoteWatch the show BULLSHIT by Pen and Teller. Theres an episode about the bible. OMG that will open up your eyes! Its on YOUTUBE. They tell you what chapters and verses say some terrible things too. Seriously, watch it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RV46fsmx6E"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
