Kentucky Court Blocks Unconstitutional Prosecutions Of Pregnant Women

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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"The court is right in deciding that if we allow pregnant women to be incarcerated for drug addiction, it would lead to a slippery slope – what would stop a woman from being charged for speeding, smoking or failing to get prenatal care? A woman cannot be punished or subjected to harsher penalties just because she is pregnant."

[url "http://tinyurl.com/2de2f7v"]CLICKY[url]

[JohnRich 4]

Okay then, so let's also make it unconstitutional to prosecute a man for doing something that is dangerous to others. Driving recklessly with children in your car? No problem!

[Andy9o8 0]

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Okay then, so let's also make it unconstitutional to prosecute a man for doing something that is dangerous to others. Driving recklessly with children in your car? No problem!

If a pregnant woman smokes, should she be prosecuted? If she drinks alcohol? How about if she drives dangerously - on an empty, open country road, endangering nobody but herself (and her fetus)?

How about if she skydives?

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Okay then, so let's also make it unconstitutional to prosecute a man for doing something that is dangerous to others. Driving recklessly with children in your car? No problem!

Despite what many people feel should be the law, fetuses are not legally people and do not get the same protection as children.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Despite what many people feel should be the law, fetuses are not legally people and do not get the same protection as children.

They count as people in murder cases.

[quade 3]

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Despite what many people feel should be the law, fetuses are not legally people and do not get the same protection as children.

They count as people in murder cases.

Depends on what point in the gestation doesn't it?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,478]

>They count as people in murder cases.

Apparently not in these cases, though.

[Andy9o8 0]

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Okay then, so let's also make it unconstitutional to prosecute a man for doing something that is dangerous to others. Driving recklessly with children in your car? No problem!

If a pregnant woman smokes, should she be prosecuted? If she drinks alcohol? How about if she drives dangerously - on an empty, open country road, endangering nobody but herself (and her fetus)?

How about if she skydives?

[turtlespeed 212]

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Okay then, so let's also make it unconstitutional to prosecute a man for doing something that is dangerous to others. Driving recklessly with children in your car? No problem!

If a pregnant woman smokes, should she be prosecuted? If she drinks alcohol? How about if she drives dangerously - on an empty, open country road, endangering nobody but herself (and her fetus)?

How about if she skydives?

I believe that if she takes illegal drugs known to harm fetuses, there are some states that prosecute.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[JohnRich 4]

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If a pregnant woman smokes, should she be prosecuted? If she drinks alcohol? How about if she drives dangerously - on an empty, open country road, endangering nobody but herself (and her fetus)?
How about if she skydives?

Do you believe that a woman owes NO duty to safeguard her unborn child?

And that if a woman is doing things to such an extreme degree that it's jeopardizing the health of the unborn child, that society should just turn a blind eye and do nothing?

[Andy9o8 0]

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If a pregnant woman smokes, should she be prosecuted? If she drinks alcohol? How about if she drives dangerously - on an empty, open country road, endangering nobody but herself (and her fetus)?
How about if she skydives?

Do you believe that a woman owes NO duty to safeguard her unborn child?

And that if a woman is doing things to such an extreme degree that it's jeopardizing the health of the unborn child, that society should just turn a blind eye and do nothing?

If a pregnant woman smokes, should she be prosecuted? If she drinks alcohol? How about if she drives dangerously - on an empty, open country road, endangering nobody but herself (and her fetus)?
How about if she skydives?

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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If a pregnant woman smokes, should she be prosecuted? If she drinks alcohol? How about if she drives dangerously - on an empty, open country road, endangering nobody but herself (and her fetus)?
How about if she skydives?

Do you believe that a woman owes NO duty to safeguard her unborn child?

And that if a woman is doing things to such an extreme degree that it's jeopardizing the health of the unborn child, that society should just turn a blind eye and do nothing?

Do you agree that pregnant illegal immigrants should have a right to receive the very best prenatal care in the U.S.

[JohnRich 4]

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Do you believe that a woman owes NO duty to safeguard her unborn child?

And that if a woman is doing things to such an extreme degree that it's jeopardizing the health of the unborn child, that society should just turn a blind eye and do nothing?

I see that these questions are too tough for the liberals in the crowd.

Notice that I said "to such an extreme degree". Drinking alcohol while pregnant, in moderation, is not a problem. Getting drunk every day during the latter stages of pregnancy, is. And driving dangerously, even if it only endangers oneself, is still against the law. If it was only herself at risk, though, that's her business, and I wouldn't prosecute her. However, if a woman chooses to do that while pregnant, that just makes her all the more irresponsible, and goes beyond "just herself". Even if you consider a fetus not to be a human, it's certainly a lot more than a pet dog. And someone who fed a pet dog large amounts of alcohol every day would be charged with animal abuse.

Okay, I've answered your questions. Now you guys try answering mine.

Oh, and by the way Change-o, you still owe me an answer as to what type of guns you own.

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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Do you believe that a woman owes NO duty to safeguard her unborn child?

And that if a woman is doing things to such an extreme degree that it's jeopardizing the health of the unborn child, that society should just turn a blind eye and do nothing?

I see that these questions are too tough for the liberals in the crowd.

Notice that I said "to such an extreme degree". Drinking alcohol while pregnant, in moderation, is not a problem. Getting drunk every day during the latter stages of pregnancy, is. And driving dangerously, even if it only endangers oneself, is still against the law. If it was only herself at risk, though, that's her business, and I wouldn't prosecute her. However, if a woman chooses to do that while pregnant, that just makes her all the more irresponsible, and goes beyond "just herself". Even if you consider a fetus not to be a human, it's certainly a lot more than a pet dog. And someone who fed a pet dog large amounts of alcohol every day would be charged with animal abuse.

Okay, I've answered your questions. Now you guys try answering mine.

Oh, and by the way Change-o, you still owe me an answer as to what type of guns you own.

I don't care if you never answer my question.

[billvon 2,478]

>Do you believe that a woman owes NO duty to safeguard her unborn child?

She does indeed have a duty. And the best person to decide what those duties are herself, her husband and her doctor - not you.

>And that if a woman is doing things to such an extreme degree that it's
>jeopardizing the health of the unborn child, that society should just turn a
>blind eye and do nothing?

Nope. They should provide her with the research that demonstrates what the risks are, and provide her with very basic medical support if she can't afford it (folate for example.)

Beyond that, no, they should not arrest her for skydiving while pregnant.

[wmw999 2,181]

I'm a woman, I'm fairly liberal, I've been pregnant, and I'm a mother. I think that qualifies me.

I don't think there should be additional penalties. Does she deserve opprobrium if she behaves like that? Absolutely. But in general enforcing additional penalties on women simply because they are pregnant is designed to send a lesson, and not really to protect the blastocyst/embryo/fetus/unborn child.

And no, a blastocyst, embryo, fetus and unborn child is not the same as a born baby. Emergence from the birth canal as a live child is when you get to claim someone on your income taxes, it's when the census can count you. Yes, it's an arbitrary line, but any line will be arbitrary so we might as well stick with the one that we've already picked.

Pregnancy is a continuum that varies from instance to instance.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[wmw999 2,181]

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Beyond that, no, they should not arrest her for skydiving while pregnant

And if they decide to start, I sure hope the statute of limitations has run out

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Andy9o8 0]

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Do you believe that a woman owes NO duty to safeguard her unborn child?

And that if a woman is doing things to such an extreme degree that it's jeopardizing the health of the unborn child, that society should just turn a blind eye and do nothing?

I see that these questions are too tough for the liberals in the crowd.

Notice that I said "to such an extreme degree". Drinking alcohol while pregnant, in moderation, is not a problem. Getting drunk every day during the latter stages of pregnancy, is. And driving dangerously, even if it only endangers oneself, is still against the law. If it was only herself at risk, though, that's her business, and I wouldn't prosecute her. However, if a woman chooses to do that while pregnant, that just makes her all the more irresponsible, and goes beyond "just herself". Even if you consider a fetus not to be a human, it's certainly a lot more than a pet dog. And someone who fed a pet dog large amounts of alcohol every day would be charged with animal abuse.

Okay, I've answered your questions. Now you guys try answering mine.

Oh, and by the way Change-o, you still owe me an answer as to what type of guns you own.

I believe women have an ethical duty to safeguard fetuses that they intend to carry to term. (For brevity and focus, I'll avoid going off into abortion issues, although they obviously do come into play here.) I think that as a matter of social ethics, society should try to intervene in a helpful, non-coercive way to persuade a pregnant woman not to harm her as-yet unborn child. But as a matter of law, the woman has the final say on whether or not to accept the intervention; and if she says no, she should be left the hell alone.

As a matter of law, I do not think a pregnant woman behaving self-dangerously should be prosecuted. It's a gritty compromise; but the reason I lean to that side of the legal issue - on balance - is because allowing women to be coerced, arrested, prosecuted, etc. because they are pregnant essentially relegates pregnant women to a second-class citizenship of subservience, even of enslavement, that is not borne by the rest of adult society. Essentially, it amounts to a woman losing civil and constitutional rights by virtue of being pregnant, and I find that legally abhorrent.

Yes, this runs in tension with the concept of fetal rights; but as I said, it's a gritty compromise.

And I already told you about Chango's gun - it's a Red Ryder BB Gun.

[wmw999 2,181]

You and Billvon both said what I was trying to, only better. Thanks.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Amazon 7]

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Do you believe that a woman owes NO duty to safeguard her unborn child?

And that if a woman is doing things to such an extreme degree that it's jeopardizing the health of the unborn child, that society should just turn a blind eye and do nothing?

I see that these questions are too tough for the liberals in the crowd.

Notice that I said "to such an extreme degree". Drinking alcohol while pregnant, in moderation, is not a problem. Getting drunk every day during the latter stages of pregnancy, is. And driving dangerously, even if it only endangers oneself, is still against the law. If it was only herself at risk, though, that's her business, and I wouldn't prosecute her. However, if a woman chooses to do that while pregnant, that just makes her all the more irresponsible, and goes beyond "just herself". Even if you consider a fetus not to be a human, it's certainly a lot more than a pet dog. And someone who fed a pet dog large amounts of alcohol every day would be charged with animal abuse.

Okay, I've answered your questions. Now you guys try answering mine.

Oh, and by the way Change-o, you still owe me an answer as to what type of guns you own.

I swear to god that way too many conservative males in this country act for all the world like Frank Herberts Tlelaxu and would prefer all females in this society to just be axlotl tanks once they manage to impregnate a female

[ChangoLanzao 0]

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And I already told you about Chango's gun - it's a Red Ryder BB Gun.

[JohnRich 4]

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I don't care if you never answer my question.

Don't you want to accuse me of making personal insults towards you, and then tell me to "Bug off!"?

[billvon 2,478]

So John, I answered your questions. Here's one for you that others have already asked:

Should a pregnant woman be allowed to skydive?

[rushmc 18]

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So John, I answered your questions. Here's one for you that others have already asked:

Should a pregnant woman be allowed to skydive?

Sure

It would be just another legal way to kill a baby/fetus

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[MBiegs 0]

In Reply To
Despite what many people feel should be the law, fetuses are not legally people and do not get the same protection as children.
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They count as people in murder cases.
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Depends on what point in the gestation doesn't it?

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In wisconsin an "unborn child" means any individual of the human species from fertilization until birth that is gestating inside a woman.