airdvr 197 #26 May 14, 2010 Quote>Before you start disrespecting being an American citizen you ought to >stop and think about who it is your talking to. And before you start thinking that being an American citizen is some noble accomplishment attained after a life of hard work, you should look at some of the people who are US citizens. Jeffery Dahmer? Timothy McVeigh? Syed Hashmi? You are really going to get bent out of shape if someone direspects the citizenship of these people? In my mind these are people who just happened to be born in a certain place. That alone does not give them any more of a right to a seat than Nina Kuebler, or Mick Cottle, or Hannah Betts. Indeed, I think the latter people have far MORE right to a seat than any of the first three. I was very lucky to be born here. I didn't have to do anything to earn my citizenship. Since then I've tried to repay what the US has given me. I'd like other people to have that opportunity as well, even if they were born 50 miles from me. Where do you get the idea that they don't have the opportunity? If you entered the country illegally you do not get the opportunity...simple. You jumped infront of people who are doing the right thing and you need to go back. Why is that so difficult to grasp? I know where you're headed...some form of anmnesty. Think you have a problem now? Every Tom, Dick, and Jose will be crossin' the Rio Grande if we do that.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GeorgiaDon 340 #27 May 14, 2010 Since you seem to be knowledgeable on the subject, could you tell me what visa program these people should apply under to be able to come through the gate, as you say. I'm quite familiar with J and H visas, but those require advanced education (most go to PhD's) and are tightly rationed. There is the TN visa, but again you have to have technical skills that fall into a small list of eligible professions. For all 3 visa types you need to be sponsored by a business or an educational institution, you can't just show up at the "gate" and ask to be let in. The only alternatives that I know of are to marry a US citizen, or to invest a large sum of money in a US business (at least a million dollars I think), in which case you can jump the queue and get a green card without having to be in the country for 5 years first. I have no idea what kind of a visa is even available to someone whose skill set is cleaning chickens or shingling roofs. So, when I'm pointing people to the "gate" what specific visa program do you suggest they apply under? Thanks! Don_____________________________________ Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996) “Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #28 May 14, 2010 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>That is what is happening now, the citizens are the ones that have to leave . . . Uh, no, you missed the point of the examples. The citizens (the guys who were apparently born on the bleachers and have never done a lick of work in their lives) get to stay. The outsiders, the ones who want to bring themselves and their kids into the park to play baseball, aren't allowed in. Sorry, park's full of "citizens." to bad they are laying there without work because the illegals got there job Really? Not because they are often lazy fucks and wouldn't lower themselves to do the jobs that the 'others' are willing to do? or maybe because the jobs do not pay well because they employer does not have to pay a legal wage because of the illegals working for less than min wage. So why, then, are we punishing the illegals, when a far EASIER and less costly solution would be to enforce laws already in place that regulate EMPLOYERS in this country? I thought you conservatives were all big on less government, and enforcing existing laws. Oh, I know the answer. Because it's easier to pick out the brown folks and persecute them, rather than "pick on" hard-working american business owners, right? We all know what would happen if we actually addressed the source of the problem. Offices in the capitol would be flooded with angry letters and calls from people who are outraged at having to pay $40/person for a meal at Applebee's or $5 for a head of lettuce...probably the same people who are now flooding those same offices with cries of "kick them out!"Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #29 May 14, 2010 >Where do you get the idea that they don't have the opportunity? They don't. I know several immigrants - skilled, capable, hardworking people - who have been denied entry (even deported) because of a paperwork snafu. I know several others who have never even had the opportunity to try because some quota is full. > If you entered the country illegally you do not get the >opportunity...simple. And if you obey the law and stay outside the country, or obey the law and leave when some bureaucrat loses your paperwork - you do not get the opportunity. Do you really not see that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #30 May 14, 2010 I support the AZ law, but your analogy is lousy and not needed.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #31 May 15, 2010 Quote>you mean why should they give up their seats to someone that is >illegal to be there. Correct. And that dad with his son, wanting to play Little League, are both illegal - because they have exceeded the legal limit of people in the park. How do we fix that problem? Kids want to play Little League. Dads want to watch. Sure, we could build a bigger fence to keep them out of the park. A better solution might be to build the bigger fence AND find a way to let them in to play Little League, so they can use the park along with the lazy bums who did nothing other than be born there. So Bill, what will you do the next time you try to go to a show, or game and they are sold out?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #32 May 15, 2010 Quote>you mean why should they give up their seats to someone that is >illegal to be there. Correct. And that dad with his son, wanting to play Little League, are both illegal - because they have exceeded the legal limit of people in the park. How do we fix that problem? Kids want to play Little League. Dads want to watch. Sure, we could build a bigger fence to keep them out of the park. A better solution might be to build the bigger fence AND find a way to let them in to play Little League, so they can use the park along with the lazy bums who did nothing other than be born there. Another question Bill . . . why are you trying to make it out to be their rights to go play little league? They could play , or Cricket, Curling, Rugby, Field Hockey, La Cross or Polo . . . We're not the only game around.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #33 May 15, 2010 >So Bill, what will you do the next time you try to go to a show, or game >and they are sold out? Go to a different one - and in the meantime lobby for a change in the rules that allow more people to use the field. Perhaps even build an additional field. >why are you trying to make it out to be their rights to go play little >league? They could play , or Cricket, Curling, Rugby, Field Hockey, La >Cross or Polo . . . We're not the only game around. I'm not. You are the one claiming that it is the bum's rights to sleep on the bleachers because they've been there for a long time, and that newcomers have no right to use anything. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #34 May 15, 2010 Quote>So Bill, what will you do the next time you try to go to a show, or game >and they are sold out? Go to a different one - and in the meantime lobby for a change in the rules that allow more people to use the field. Perhaps even build an additional field. >why are you trying to make it out to be their rights to go play little >league? They could play , or Cricket, Curling, Rugby, Field Hockey, La >Cross or Polo . . . We're not the only game around. I'm not. You are the one claiming that it is the bum's rights to sleep on the bleachers because they've been there for a long time, and that newcomers have no right to use anything. Not at all. BUT - if you go to get on a load at the DZ and it is already full, do you sneak on? I guess if you felt strongly enough about it - you could relenquish your seat on the plane and trade places with the newcomer. Wait your turn and do things legally. No Problem.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #35 May 15, 2010 QuotePerhaps even build an additional field.Quote It isn't that the stadium is too small - it's the people that snuck into the stadium illegally.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites grimmie 173 #36 May 15, 2010 I'm saving up. I figure when AZ is finished rounding up everyone and sending them home, a lovely house in Arizona City on the golf course will be about $7,000. Cheaper than staying a few weeks at the Skyrider Inn. Except I'll have to find some legal chic to clean it at an inflated rate and some American dude to pack for me at $10 a go...damn, and I'll have to do ALL of my own lawn care, always a flaw in the plan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #37 May 16, 2010 > BUT - if you go to get on a load at the DZ and it is already full, do you >sneak on? No! But by the same token, if there's room, you should be able to get on, even if you're a belly flyer and the load's got lots of bellyflyers already. And I prefer to go to DZ's where they let everyone jump, even if they're freeflyers at a mainly belly DZ, or upjumpers at at tandem factory. But in any case this analogy has probably been way overstretched. We should do a better job of keeping out the criminals and at the same time let in more people who want to come here to work. The US is a nation of immigrants; it's what made us great. We should continue that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #38 May 16, 2010 >It isn't that the stadium is too small - it's the people that snuck into >the stadium illegally. Agreed. So make it easier to enter legally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #39 May 16, 2010 Quote ...you should look at some of the people who are US citizens. Jeffery Dahmer? Timothy McVeigh? Syed Hashmi? You are really going to get bent out of shape if someone direspects the citizenship of these people? In my mind these are people who just happened to be born in a certain place. That alone does not give them any more of a right to a seat than Nina Kuebler, or Mick Cottle, or Hannah Betts. Indeed, I think the latter people have far MORE right to a seat than any of the first three. Showing your true colors here. So, there are degrees of "rights" and YOUR idea is what determines who has "more" rights than others. Grand, just grand. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites popsjumper 2 #40 May 16, 2010 Quote>It isn't that the stadium is too small - it's the people that snuck into >the stadium illegally. Agreed. So make it easier to enter legally. How easy do you want to make it? How about grading on a curve, that way more and more stupid people will pass and graduate.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #41 May 16, 2010 QuoteQuote>It isn't that the stadium is too small - it's the people that snuck into >the stadium illegally. Agreed. So make it easier to enter legally. How easy do you want to make it? How about grading on a curve, that way more and more stupid people will pass and graduate. If it is too hard, well hell, just lower the standards. Why don't we help the countries they are coming from to help them, stay there? Why do we HAVE to let mass amounts of people in?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jclalor 12 #42 May 16, 2010 I hear all the time that illegal immigrants are just " honest and hard working people trying to better thier lives and that of their families". If just being hard working is the benchhmark for letting people in, why don't we extend this to all hardworking people of the world? hell let them all in, all hundreds of millions of them. I am bginning to think more and more that most people support illegal immigration, just for the simple fact that they despise the people who oppose it. People more than willing to bite off thier nose to spite thier face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chutem 0 #43 May 16, 2010 A message from Arizona to California. (see attachment) James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #44 May 16, 2010 QuoteA message from Arizona to California. (see attachment) A message from California to Arizona (see link) http://cbs2.com/local/Los.Angeles.City.2.1689109.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites chutem 0 #45 May 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteA message from Arizona to California. (see attachment) A message from California to Arizona (see link) http://cbs2.com/local/Los.Angeles.City.2.1689109.html Yes, I believe the attachment is in reply to this line of action in Cali. James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #46 May 16, 2010 So Arizona should Boycott LA in return. Take all the wind farms and double the prices to make up for some of the loss they are now incurring because of LA's blatant overwhelming stupidity. It can go both ways. I hope that LA gets taught a lesson and sees this law being enacted all over the country.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #47 May 16, 2010 >So, there are degrees of "rights" and YOUR idea is what determines who >has "more" rights than others. Do you think Jeffery Dahmer and Timothy McVeigh should have all the rights you have? Did you really oppose McVeigh's execution and argue for his release? >Showing your true colors here. Thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 197 #48 May 16, 2010 Quote>So, there are degrees of "rights" and YOUR idea is what determines who >has "more" rights than others. Do you think Jeffery Dahmer and Timothy McVeigh should have all the rights you have? Did you really oppose McVeigh's execution and argue for his release? >Showing your true colors here. Thank you! I'm a bit confused by your responce to this one Bill. Yes, I do think Dahmer and McVeigh should have the same rights as I do. I'm surprised if you don't feel the same.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites turtlespeed 212 #49 May 16, 2010 Quote>So, there are degrees of "rights" and YOUR idea is what determines who >has "more" rights than others. Do you think Jeffery Dahmer and Timothy McVeigh should have all the rights you have? Did you really oppose McVeigh's execution and argue for his release? >Showing your true colors here. Thank you! What percentage of the populace do they represent? Nationally . . . the population is aprox 305 million even if we take out a VERY consevative figure of 11 Million for the illegals the two people that you mentioned, who no longer have most of the rights that you are mentioning still leaves the percentage at about 0.00000068% not a really huge number there Bill.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #50 May 16, 2010 QuoteQuote>So, there are degrees of "rights" and YOUR idea is what determines who >has "more" rights than others. Do you think Jeffery Dahmer and Timothy McVeigh should have all the rights you have? Did you really oppose McVeigh's execution and argue for his release? >Showing your true colors here. Thank you! What percentage of the populace do they represent? Why is that relevant?... 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grimmie 173 #36 May 15, 2010 I'm saving up. I figure when AZ is finished rounding up everyone and sending them home, a lovely house in Arizona City on the golf course will be about $7,000. Cheaper than staying a few weeks at the Skyrider Inn. Except I'll have to find some legal chic to clean it at an inflated rate and some American dude to pack for me at $10 a go...damn, and I'll have to do ALL of my own lawn care, always a flaw in the plan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #37 May 16, 2010 > BUT - if you go to get on a load at the DZ and it is already full, do you >sneak on? No! But by the same token, if there's room, you should be able to get on, even if you're a belly flyer and the load's got lots of bellyflyers already. And I prefer to go to DZ's where they let everyone jump, even if they're freeflyers at a mainly belly DZ, or upjumpers at at tandem factory. But in any case this analogy has probably been way overstretched. We should do a better job of keeping out the criminals and at the same time let in more people who want to come here to work. The US is a nation of immigrants; it's what made us great. We should continue that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #38 May 16, 2010 >It isn't that the stadium is too small - it's the people that snuck into >the stadium illegally. Agreed. So make it easier to enter legally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #39 May 16, 2010 Quote ...you should look at some of the people who are US citizens. Jeffery Dahmer? Timothy McVeigh? Syed Hashmi? You are really going to get bent out of shape if someone direspects the citizenship of these people? In my mind these are people who just happened to be born in a certain place. That alone does not give them any more of a right to a seat than Nina Kuebler, or Mick Cottle, or Hannah Betts. Indeed, I think the latter people have far MORE right to a seat than any of the first three. Showing your true colors here. So, there are degrees of "rights" and YOUR idea is what determines who has "more" rights than others. Grand, just grand. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #40 May 16, 2010 Quote>It isn't that the stadium is too small - it's the people that snuck into >the stadium illegally. Agreed. So make it easier to enter legally. How easy do you want to make it? How about grading on a curve, that way more and more stupid people will pass and graduate.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #41 May 16, 2010 QuoteQuote>It isn't that the stadium is too small - it's the people that snuck into >the stadium illegally. Agreed. So make it easier to enter legally. How easy do you want to make it? How about grading on a curve, that way more and more stupid people will pass and graduate. If it is too hard, well hell, just lower the standards. Why don't we help the countries they are coming from to help them, stay there? Why do we HAVE to let mass amounts of people in?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jclalor 12 #42 May 16, 2010 I hear all the time that illegal immigrants are just " honest and hard working people trying to better thier lives and that of their families". If just being hard working is the benchhmark for letting people in, why don't we extend this to all hardworking people of the world? hell let them all in, all hundreds of millions of them. I am bginning to think more and more that most people support illegal immigration, just for the simple fact that they despise the people who oppose it. People more than willing to bite off thier nose to spite thier face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #43 May 16, 2010 A message from Arizona to California. (see attachment) James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #44 May 16, 2010 QuoteA message from Arizona to California. (see attachment) A message from California to Arizona (see link) http://cbs2.com/local/Los.Angeles.City.2.1689109.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #45 May 16, 2010 QuoteQuoteA message from Arizona to California. (see attachment) A message from California to Arizona (see link) http://cbs2.com/local/Los.Angeles.City.2.1689109.html Yes, I believe the attachment is in reply to this line of action in Cali. James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #46 May 16, 2010 So Arizona should Boycott LA in return. Take all the wind farms and double the prices to make up for some of the loss they are now incurring because of LA's blatant overwhelming stupidity. It can go both ways. I hope that LA gets taught a lesson and sees this law being enacted all over the country.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #47 May 16, 2010 >So, there are degrees of "rights" and YOUR idea is what determines who >has "more" rights than others. Do you think Jeffery Dahmer and Timothy McVeigh should have all the rights you have? Did you really oppose McVeigh's execution and argue for his release? >Showing your true colors here. Thank you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 197 #48 May 16, 2010 Quote>So, there are degrees of "rights" and YOUR idea is what determines who >has "more" rights than others. Do you think Jeffery Dahmer and Timothy McVeigh should have all the rights you have? Did you really oppose McVeigh's execution and argue for his release? >Showing your true colors here. Thank you! I'm a bit confused by your responce to this one Bill. Yes, I do think Dahmer and McVeigh should have the same rights as I do. I'm surprised if you don't feel the same.Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #49 May 16, 2010 Quote>So, there are degrees of "rights" and YOUR idea is what determines who >has "more" rights than others. Do you think Jeffery Dahmer and Timothy McVeigh should have all the rights you have? Did you really oppose McVeigh's execution and argue for his release? >Showing your true colors here. Thank you! What percentage of the populace do they represent? Nationally . . . the population is aprox 305 million even if we take out a VERY consevative figure of 11 Million for the illegals the two people that you mentioned, who no longer have most of the rights that you are mentioning still leaves the percentage at about 0.00000068% not a really huge number there Bill.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #50 May 16, 2010 QuoteQuote>So, there are degrees of "rights" and YOUR idea is what determines who >has "more" rights than others. Do you think Jeffery Dahmer and Timothy McVeigh should have all the rights you have? Did you really oppose McVeigh's execution and argue for his release? >Showing your true colors here. Thank you! What percentage of the populace do they represent? Why is that relevant?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
