Interesting Muslim stuff

[airdvr 200]

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>If you look closely at the transcript she also tried not to answer the question.

Which makes her very much . . . like you. She was just a little more honest.

Keep dancing around the issue. Someone else will handle it for you.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 2,476]

>Keep dancing around the issue.

I'm not the one who just realized he can't even answer a simple question without his whole argument collapsing.

If you feel like answering, by all means, do so. If not, then perhaps you should reflect on why you find it so hard.

[airdvr 200]

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>Keep dancing around the issue.

I'm not the one who just realized he can't even answer a simple question without his whole argument collapsing.

If you feel like answering, by all means, do so. If not, then perhaps you should reflect on why you find it so hard.

It's a neat trick Bill. Most people would fall for it. I'm not representing a group, the question wasn't posed to me, and I didn't put myself in the position of trying to make a speaker look like an ass.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[remibond 0]

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So we have what looks like a radical islamist questioning David Horowitz. Actually not questioning...rather prodding him.

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is hosting our annual “Hitler Youth” week, you should come out to those events.

Her answer to the question is given as a representative of the MSA.

"Hitler Youth" is in quotation marks because she was quoting a name Horowitz had applied to them. Repeating his own words to him can hardly be described as "prodding".

[falxori 0]

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If you could get all the radical Muslim elements to gather in Pakistan, so we don't have to hunt them down all over the world (including here) would you be for or against that?

So you equate "radial Muslim" to "Jews" (which were the target in the original quote)?

your entire debate on based on this flawed comparison. No one suggested "hunting" Muslims in general...

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[timmyfitz 0]

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If you could get all the radical Muslim elements to gather in Pakistan, so we don't have to hunt them down all over the world (including here) would you be for or against that?

So you equate "radial Muslim" to "Jews" (which were the target in the original quote)?

your entire debate on based on this flawed comparison. No one suggested "hunting" Muslims in general...

+1. Nice try though, Bill.

[davjohns 1]

If any party or group who advocates, advances, prepares for or executes a plan to kill others solely because of the way those others pray or fail to pray or because the party or group believes they have been ordered to kill the others by some deity, spirit or other supernatural being, that party or group is a threat to my peaceful existance and the peaceful existance of others. In that case, I would appreciate it if they would all gather in one place for a regretable, but necessary, pre-emptive strike.

To keep from mincing words - there are some viruses that can only be eliminated by incinerating the bodies that contain them. There are some strains of religion and politics that catch hold so strongly and propogate so virulently that the only preventive measures are both repugnant and mandatory to the survival of those who are threatened by them. We hate to admit it. We hate the fact that it is so. But some people must be killed to end the spread of their taint.

The difficult part is drawing the line. I have taken a stab at it in the first paragraph. It is off the cuff and far from perfect. Feel free to pick it apart. You will not hurt my feelings.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[airdvr 200]

True...but the fast talking progressives would have you believe that you are no better than the folks you'd like to incinerate.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[Darius11 12]

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There are some strains of religion and politics that catch hold so strongly and propogate so virulently that the only preventive measures are both repugnant and mandatory to the survival of those who are threatened by them.

What is your opinion of people who justify false wars that cost millions of (brown) lives and destroys nations just so they don't have to pay $5.00 a gallon for gas to fill there SUV? These are the same people who have it better then 90% of the world.

The reality is you guys are clueless or way too ready to unjustly excuse all of our actions that have caused the hate. religion or extremist in general will always exists however you help grow the numbers when you supply them with enough real reasons for hate. Like killing people families

As always the hard questions are avoided by the OP.

What would we do if any country treat us or interfered with our nation the way we do with others?

WAKEUP greed, and consumption is our countries extrem religion with its own terrorists and what has driven so much of our policies.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[airdvr 200]

I got it...it's all our fault and we deserve what we get.

BTW, wasn't the world supposed to love us if we elected Obama?

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[turtlespeed 212]

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I got it...it's all our fault and we deserve what we get.

BTW, wasn't the world supposed to love us if we elected Obama?

I thought he was going to bring all the troops home too! Those war mongers! How dare they stay there against a presidential order.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[christelsabine 1]

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I got it...it's all our fault and we deserve what we get.

BTW, wasn't the world supposed to love us if we elected Obama?

Why that? Did you start a wordwide *love* poll before electing Obama?

What makes you think the world loves you more, now you've elected him?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[RackJR 0]

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I got it...it's all our fault and we deserve what we get.

Not that simple. Is it all our fault? No. Do we share responsibility for how those people feel about us? Absolutely. Any research you do into our influence/actions in the middle east from circa 1904 on will lead you to the inevitable conclusion that we do not hold the moral high ground. Do we deserve what we get? No more or less than they do.

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BTW, wasn't the world supposed to love us if we elected Obama?

All he can do is try to set us on the road to recovering from our mistakes of the past. No one can attempt to hold him responsible for a century-worth of ill will, and I hope your comment is at least partly tongue-in-cheek. At some point, if we are ever to find a real solution that doesn't include genocide, someone is going to have to change our direction. Or would you venture that we are better served by never ending war?

Say what you mean. Do what you say.

[RackJR 0]

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If any party or group who advocates, advances, prepares for or executes a plan to kill others solely because of

What if the end of that is "the fact that we want the black shit that's under the ground where they are, we want it cheap, and we want it on our terms." ? Do they have the right to kill us, to end the spread of our taint? Do we threaten their peaceful existence? Or a more realistic question, have we been threatening their peaceful existence for a long time?

I just don't think it's as simple as it's being painted here. These people didn't always hate us. We've earned their enmity. Does that make their actions right? I don't think so. But our plan has to include acknowledging that we've put ourselves into this mess, and more killing is probably not going to help.

I think your simple plan only works if you look at things on a very short timeline. Extend it further, and it gets very complex (at least using the example of the middle east). If someone has done you wrong, don't they share in the burden of rebuilding?

If you find an example that is as simple as your first statement, I would agree with you.

Say what you mean. Do what you say.

[skinnay 0]

+1

[airdvr 200]

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I got it...it's all our fault and we deserve what we get.

BTW, wasn't the world supposed to love us if we elected Obama?

Why that? Did you start a wordwide *love* poll before electing Obama?

What makes you think the world loves you more, now you've elected him?

Well he got the darned Peace Prize. And I didn't have to do a poll...that was done in advance...

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The world used to like us a lot, but our reputation plummeted during the eight years of the Bush administration. In 2000, 78 percent of Germans had a favorable view of the United States, according to the Pew Global Attitudes Project. By 2008, that had dropped to 31 percent. During the same period, favorable opinion of the U.S. went from 83 percent to 53 percent in Britain, from 62 percent to 42 percent in France, from 77 percent to 50 percent in Japan, from 68 percent to 47 percent in Mexico and from 52 percent to 12 percent in Turkey.

Don't be surprised or offended that the world doesn't think much of the way we've run our affairs in the last eight years. We haven't liked the way things have gone either. More than 70 percent of us disapprove of Bush's job performance, according to a recent CBS News/New York Times poll, and 85 percent think our country has "pretty seriously gotten off on the wrong track."

This means that President-elect Barack Obama will inherit monumental problems when he takes office. But when it comes to the rest of the world, Obama also has a monumental advantage that John McCain never would have had: The world likes him — and is prepared, once again, to like our nation.
http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/news/opinion/article_04b19665-16f8-5bde-880a-7648254eae0c.html

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[billvon 2,476]

>I thought he was going to bring all the troops home too! Those war mongers!

Every right winger's fondest dream - a way to blame the Iraq war on Obama.

[Lefty 0]

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Every right winger's fondest dream - a way to blame the Iraq war on Obama.

Just giving the Obama administration the credit it wants.

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[sundevil777 94]

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I got it...it's all our fault and we deserve what we get.

Not that simple. Is it all our fault? No. Do we share responsibility for how those people feel about us? Absolutely. Any research you do into our influence/actions in the middle east from circa 1904 on will lead you to the inevitable conclusion that we do not hold the moral high ground. Do we deserve what we get? No more or less than they do.

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BTW, wasn't the world supposed to love us if we elected Obama?

All he can do is try to set us on the road to recovering from our mistakes of the past. No one can attempt to hold him responsible for a century-worth of ill will, and I hope your comment is at least partly tongue-in-cheek. At some point, if we are ever to find a real solution that doesn't include genocide, someone is going to have to change our direction. Or would you venture that we are better served by never ending war?

The world's history is full of subjegation/repression/however you want to call it. Please don't imply that America is high up on the list of that activity. Most of the world has been able to get over the past conflicts/imperialism/however you want to call it and has learned to simply pursue a prosperous future in peace. Germans and Japanese were able to do it, why can't Arabs? Jews are willing to live in Peace with their neighbors, why can't Arabs? The answer is that it has nothing to do with past transgressions by Americans, or the British/French/or even the Hungarians or Turks that were in charge of that region. No, it has to do with the Arab's overt and state-sanctioned bigotry, prejudice, and hatred that is now such an important part of their identity.

Anwar Sadat had a true change of heart and the courage to lead his country toward a peaceful future. The lack of peace in that region is not due to America's actions or even Israel's actions, it is due to the bigotry, prejudice, and hatred from the Arabs. When they get some consistent and widespread leadership like Sadat, peace will be possible. Feelings of guilt by Americans will not bring this about.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[turtlespeed 212]

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>I thought he was going to bring all the troops home too! Those war mongers!

Every right winger's fondest dream - a way to blame the Iraq war on Obama.

Where did you get that? I'm just wondering what happened to his promises.

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Broken promise : Bring troops home in 16 months

On his campaign website, Obama promised he would "remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months."

His commitment to bring combat troops home by May 20, 2010, and end the war gave him an edge among Democrats over candidate Hillary Clinton.

However, on Feb. 27, Obama declared, "Let me say this as plainly as I can: By Aug. 31, 2010, our combat mission in Iraq will end."

If Obama adheres to his plan, combat troops will return home months later than originally promised. The New York Times reports, Obama will withdraw only two of the 14 brigades before December.

As part of a "new era of American leadership," he also said he would leave behind a residual force of 35,000 to 50,000 troops and remove all U.S. soldiers from Iraq by Dec. 31, 2011 – the same deadline the Bush administration negotiated with the Iraqi government last year in its Status of Forces Agreement.

Additionally, some combat units would remain in Iraq beyond Obama's declared August 2010 withdrawal. Rather than returning home, they would simply face reassignment as "advisory training brigades."

Even as combat troops are brought home, Pentagon officials have said fresh units will continue deploying to Iraq.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[Guest]

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There are some strains of religion and politics that catch hold so strongly and propogate so virulently that the only preventive measures are both repugnant and mandatory to the survival of those who are threatened by them.

What is your opinion of people who justify false wars that cost millions of (brown) lives and destroys nations just so they don't have to pay $5.00 a gallon for gas to fill there SUV? These are the same people who have it better then 90% of the world.

The reality is you guys are clueless or way too ready to unjustly excuse all of our actions that have caused the hate. religion or extremist in general will always exists however you help grow the numbers when you supply them with enough real reasons for hate. Like killing people families

As always the hard questions are avoided by the OP.

What would we do if any country treat us or interfered with our nation the way we do with others?

WAKEUP greed, and consumption is our countries extrem religion with its own terrorists and what has driven so much of our policies.

Here in Qatar, I have the opportunity to see the hateful filth spewing out of the Arabic version of Al-Jazeera. It makes the English version look quite tame and peaceful by comparison.

Your "blame America" screed quite conveniently overlooks the genocidal policies and attitudes of Hamas, Hezbullah, Islamic Brotherhood, Al Qaida, the Taliban, et cetera, ad nauseam. So thanks for clearing that up.

Their blind hatred (and Islamic Rage-Boy behavior) has been whipped up in them by their despotic secular and religious leaders, who control ALL their information sources, and conveniently blame a distant, external entity (the USA) for all the failures of their societies. And being a bunch of primates for whom the media are a novelty (and listen/read/view with even less critical thinking than people in the West do), totally buy into the bullshit.

The only thing the people who bash America and the West can seem to come up with is Timothy McVeigh (lone wolf) and the Crusades (happened 1000 years ago [and fully justified])

I rest my case.

mh
.
edit for spelling

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[popsjumper 2]

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How about we just live without other people trying to instill their beliefs on us and do the same in turn.

Now THERE'S a radical thought!

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[shropshire 0]

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How about we just live without other people trying to instill their beliefs on us and do the same in turn.

Now THERE'S a radical thought!

Catch-22 - seems like the shelled one is trying to suggest how people live their lives by saying that we shouldn't say how people live their lives

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[RackJR 0]

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Please don't imply that America is high up on the list of that activity.

It's interesting that the mere mention of the fact that the US shares responsibility for the current state of affairs in the middle east will get this kind of response. Do you only read conservative news, or watch conservative news shows, for your idea of what's gone on in the world?

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Most of the world has been able to get over the past conflicts/imperialism/however you want to call it and has learned to simply pursue a prosperous future in peace. Germans and Japanese were able to do it, why can't Arabs?

Maybe because it's still going on? It's not the past for them. It's happening now.

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Jews are willing to live in Peace with their neighbors, why can't Arabs?

Can we make the discussion a little wider? This is an entirely different topic. The past has not shown Jews living in peace with their neighbors, nor does it currently, if you are talking about Isreal. Start another thread if you want to continue this one.

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it is due to the bigotry, prejudice, and hatred from the Arabs.

I live in the middle east. What's your perspective? How many Arabs do you talk to? I live and work with Arabs every day. They don't hate me, or us, or the US. It's irresponsible to make those kinds of generalizations.

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Feelings of guilt by Americans will not bring this about.

I didn't say anything about the US needing to feel guilty. I said we should acknowledge that we share responsibility for the current situation. I suggested that it is a mindset that will help us move forward in a way that doesn't include genocide. Clearly, that got an emotional response from you. Are you suggesting that genocide is, in fact, the answer?

Say what you mean. Do what you say.

[wmw999 2,178]

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Germans and Japanese were able to do it, why can't Arabs? Jews are willing to live in Peace with their neighbors, why can't Arabs?

The Germans and the Japanese had the Marshall Plan to help them get over it. If you'll recall, the "fuck you" that most of the world gave to Germany after WW1 is part of what led to Nazism.

All of these entities (Germans, Arabs, Jews, Japanese, Americans) are large enough that it's impossible to find people who aren't extremists who either disagree with everything they stand for, or who agree with everything they stand for. A better question for anyone who seems to be siding with something you're against is "I see this as agreeing with (whatever -- killing of puppies, maybe). How do you justify that to yourself?"

If you define yourself by what your neighbor is not, then you're not really defining yourself.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)