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funjumper101

Freedom OF religion means freedom FROM religion

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How much difference does it make?



Freedom comes from Knowledge...



Not necessarily. China is a pretty knowledgeable country. As are Iran and Saudi. Those countries don't exactly meet our definition of free.

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Stay positive and love your life.

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You are ok with a, Christmas, tree... but you are not ok with a Menorah?

Because the custom of a tree predates Christianity by quite a bit, and has largely become a secular symbol of the winter season rather than something having to do with one particular religion. I know MANY non-christians who have trees, and it's just not something I see as blatantly religious. Others may disagree.


Could you elaborate on your status as agnostic? Dictionary.com says - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

That about sums it up.

You don’t deny that there is one, you just simply don’t feel we can know the truth until death, and until then, you don’t want to hear about a specific one, when it comes to the things you posted about. Would that be correct?

I don't deny that there MIGHT be one. I certainly don't mind hearing others ideas about one. I just don't think the government should PAY for people to spread those ideas, as we have no way to know whose ideas are correct.


What turns you off about the Ten Commandments? Hypothetically, if you were to take out 1-4, maybe 5 too... do you agree with the last 5?


Nothing. I just don't think they belong in a courthouse, as some of the things they talk about as commandments aren't against the law.


Without Religion, where does your Moral Code come from? What is your Moral Code?

I try to treat others as they want to be treated, think about the consequences of my actions before acting, and balance what's best for myself and what's best for others as well as I can.


Lastly... How do you teach about religion in schools, without teaching religion?


Easily. You teach about the religion, you study the beliefs, the history, and the culture around the religion, without teaching the students WHAT to believe. You can teach about all kinds of religions and cultures this way. My Catholic school taught me about Islam and Judaism and Hinduism and Buddhism without teaching me to believe that those religions were the truth.


As for your comment about the religions of the founders, last I checked, most of them were Deist, and Thomas Jefferson in particular was pretty specific about the "wall of separation between church and state." When was your last Constitutional Law class?

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I don't beleive that freedom comes from knowledge, I beleive it comes from wisdom, and wisdom is the understanding of knowledge. Too much knowledge can be detrimental at times.

Consider this, when the human race is gone... Or "evolved into non-existance", knowledge to us will no longer matter. But, wisdom will be around forever... Charting life in a way. The real fascination to me is with life, not knowledge. Others of course beleive differently.
"We didn't start the fire"

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I don't beleive that freedom comes from knowledge, I beleive it comes from wisdom, and wisdom is the understanding of knowledge. Too much knowledge can be detrimental at times.

Consider this, when the human race is gone... Or "evolved into non-existance", knowledge to us will no longer matter. But, wisdom will be around forever... Charting life in a way. The real fascination to me is with life, not knowledge. Others of course beleive differently.



Meaningless semantic mumbo jumbo.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I don't beleive that freedom comes from knowledge, I beleive it comes from wisdom, and wisdom is the understanding of knowledge. Too much knowledge can be detrimental at times.

Consider this, when the human race is gone... Or "evolved into non-existance", knowledge to us will no longer matter. But, wisdom will be around forever... Charting life in a way. The real fascination to me is with life, not knowledge. Others of course beleive differently.




Wisdom is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results.

how can too much knowledge be a detriment? unless you mean, the more knowledge we aquire and apply, the less we believe in the supernatural.
Born ok 1st time.

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I had some long discussions on this forum previously.
I just like to make a very simple statement why we shouldn’t mix religion with politics.
LOST TIME WE MIXED POLITICS WITH RELIGION PEOPLE GOT BURNED AT THE STAKE!!!
If anyone says that never happened in “name of God” that’s an ignorant lie.

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I had some long discussions on this forum previously.
I just like to make a very simple statement why we shouldn’t mix religion with politics.
LOST TIME WE MIXED POLITICS WITH RELIGION PEOPLE GOT BURNED AT THE STAKE!!!
If anyone says that never happened in “name of God” that’s an ignorant lie.



Actually, the last time we mixed religion and politics (and we still do) we ended up convincing a President to invade a country that had nothing to do with a religious war being fought against us we weren't paying attention to. So a few guys armed with little more than box cutters rammed airliners into buildings . . . in the name of religion. And we invaded the wrong country . . . also in the name of religion.

Yep, religion and politics work so fucking well together. Why not just declare the US a "Christian" country?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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You might want to look at some of the cover pages used on Donald Rumsfeld's briefs given to President Bush.

Here's an article to review.
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/05/17-3



So, this is the liberal version of the 'My Muslim faith' stuff?

Seems a better example would be the prayers to start each session of Congress if you're looking for red herrings.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

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I appreciate your attempts to explain your position and therefore share aspects of your personality in an open forum. Other attorneys posting here assume the role of judge and therefore remain aloof, arrogant and not accessible. Thank you for your willingness to be open.

I have a couple questions stated below.

Quote


What turns you off about the Ten Commandments? Hypothetically, if you were to take out 1-4, maybe 5 too... do you agree with the last 5?


Nothing. I just don't think they belong in a courthouse, as some of the things they talk about as commandments aren't against the law.



Is it true or false that the Ten Commandments are posted at the U.S. Supreme Court?


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Without Religion, where does your Moral Code come from? What is your Moral Code?


I try to treat others as they want to be treated, think about the consequences of my actions before acting, and balance what's best for myself and what's best for others as well as I can.



How do you reconcile your position with the sociopath?
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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I don't beleive that freedom comes from knowledge, I beleive it comes from wisdom, and wisdom is the understanding of knowledge. Too much knowledge can be detrimental at times.

Consider this, when the human race is gone... Or "evolved into non-existance", knowledge to us will no longer matter. But, wisdom will be around forever... Charting life in a way. The real fascination to me is with life, not knowledge. Others of course beleive differently.



Meaningless semantic mumbo jumbo.



Maybe this will help you understand:

Sensory input create facts. Facts analyzed, categorized and organized become knowledge. Knowledge applied with consistent outcome creates wisdom.

Wisdom is non-tangible and the Bible teaches that it is the attribute of God and exists eternally.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Wisdom is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results.

how can too much knowledge be a detriment? unless you mean, the more knowledge we aquire and apply, the less we believe in the supernatural.



I believe the assumption that knowledge is neutral, neither good or bad, is false.

Wisdom is positive and morally good.

Knowledge always has its origin in the reprobate human mind. It is of the flesh and in opposition to wisdom, which is from God.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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Actually, the last time we mixed religion and politics (and we still do) we ended up convincing a President to invade a country that had nothing to do with a religious war being fought against us we weren't paying attention to. So a few guys armed with little more than box cutters rammed airliners into buildings . . . in the name of religion. And we invaded the wrong country . . . also in the name of religion.



I truly believe that you fail to see or understand the big picture in regard to Iraq and the invasion or 2003.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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You might want to look at some of the cover pages used on Donald Rumsfeld's briefs given to President Bush.

Here's an article to review.
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2009/05/17-3



So, this is the liberal version of the 'My Muslim faith' stuff?

Seems a better example would be the prayers to start each session of Congress if you're looking for red herrings.



I am always frustrated by the consistent misapplication of Scripture by the liberal left in this forum. Your example of prayer as the red herring is far more accurate as an example.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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You've just made 3 statements about the relationship of knowledge and wisdom.

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Knowledge applied with consistent outcome creates wisdom.

Wisdom is non-tangible and the Bible teaches that it is the attribute of God and exists eternally.

Knowledge always has its origin in the reprobate human mind. It is of the flesh and in opposition to wisdom,



Explain how each of these three statements is not a complete contradiction of the other two.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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Wisdom is the ability to optimally (effectively and efficiently) apply perceptions and knowledge and so produce the desired results.

how can too much knowledge be a detriment? unless you mean, the more knowledge we aquire and apply, the less we believe in the supernatural.



I don't agree. Wisdom was here before you and I and it has been teaching it's creations and maintaining the balance of life. It is the movement and it's always doing something... Seemingly to serve the purpose of good, as anything not good doesn't seem to last long before something radically changes.

In reply to your other comment I'd say that there are people who need to know to live, and there are people who don't. A man could have knowledge and still have very little heart. There are plenty examples of too much knowledge being detrimental. Take the knowledge of nuclear energy for one. Do you really think a nuke is not going to go off again? The world is going nuts and nature is simply making room for something better. We are nature, we are in the realm of the wisdom of life... We know only what we are taught to know. Wisdom is the teacher, knowledge, aparently, is not. This is just what I believe.[email]
"We didn't start the fire"

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I don't agree. Wisdom was here before you and I and it has been teaching it's creations and maintaining the balance of life. It is the movement and it's always doing something... Seemingly to serve the purpose of good, as anything not good doesn't seem to last long before something radically changes.



The thing with you is that you don't argue your position, you assume that your position is correct and that everyone else a) knows what it is and b) agrees with it and then use that as a base for everything else you write, without ever explaining what that base is.


Your basic problem is that you think that every phenomenon that we have a word for actually has an independent, objective existance. You think that not only does 'wisdom' have an objectively existing Platonic Form, it is also a sentient form that gives and takes away from people.

You think that the property of organic beings we call 'life' is actually some kind of independent reservoir of 'life' energy, bits of which are imbued into evry living being and then taken back into the whole when that being dies.

But you never explain that this is what you think. You just assume that this is how reality works, and talk to people in terms of this reality.

Unfortunately, very, very few people think in those same terms (because they're wrong) and consequently no-one ever has the slightest clue what you're on about. That's why other poters keep accusing you of being a bad communicator.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?

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I don't beleive that freedom comes from knowledge, I beleive it comes from wisdom, and wisdom is the understanding of knowledge. Too much knowledge can be detrimental at times.
Consider this, when the human race is gone... Or "evolved into non-existance", knowledge to us will no longer matter. But, wisdom will be around forever... Charting life in a way. The real fascination to me is with life, not knowledge. Others of course beleive differently.


Meaningless semantic mumbo jumbo.


Maybe this will help you understand:
Sensory input create facts.



Bullshit. Pure and utter bullshit.

Facts simply exist. The speed of light is 186,000 miles per second. Water is made of two atoms of hydrogen bonded to one atom of oxygen.

Facts don't require you, me or anybody else.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Actually, the last time we mixed religion and politics (and we still do) we ended up convincing a President to invade a country that had nothing to do with a religious war being fought against us we weren't paying attention to. So a few guys armed with little more than box cutters rammed airliners into buildings . . . in the name of religion. And we invaded the wrong country . . . also in the name of religion.


I truly believe that you fail to see or understand the big picture in regard to Iraq and the invasion or 2003.



Then explain it to me. Give me "the big picture." Was this all part of "God's plan"?
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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>Is it true or false that the Ten Commandments are posted at the U.S.
>Supreme Court?

Not true.

>>I try to treat others as they want to be treated, think about the
>>consequences of my actions before acting, and balance what's best for
>>myself and what's best for others as well as I can.

>How do you reconcile your position with the sociopath?

A sociopath cannot balance what's best for herself and what's best for others.

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That's why I suggested you ask Jehova Witnesses, not try to explain something to them.



Oh I did. It starts with, do you accept Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the Son of God? Followed by, do you believe in the Holy Trinity? That is usually enough to get them dancing around the Old Testament and avoiding the New Testament.




Why shouldn't I believe in Zeus, Minerva, Vulcan and Neptune? The US Capitol has a nice fresco showing George Washington, Ben Franklin et al. in their company, right under the dome.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Using knowledge of "reprobate human mind " we have doubled life expectancy and improved quailty of life on almost any measure you care to name.
Perhaps you can tell us if you would be happy for the applicaitons of modern knowledge to be removed form you and your loved ones. No modern medicine, no sanitation, no skydiving, no internet etc etc?

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Bullshit. Pure and utter bullshit.

Facts simply exist. The speed of light is 186,000 miles per second. Water is made of two atoms of hydrogen bonded to one atom of oxygen.

Facts don't require you, me or anybody else.



I operate in the fields of spirituality and psychology.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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I truly believe that you fail to see or understand the big picture in regard to Iraq and the invasion or 2003.



Then explain it to me. Give me "the big picture." Was this all part of "God's plan"?



Study the end time prophecies.
Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

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