Freedom OF religion means freedom FROM religion

[georgerussia 0]

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Life seems to be about revelation. In the flash of an instant the light can be revealed. God is love. We reflect this love, and everything in the balance as well. Nothing is "set up" by God... everything is God. All we can do is follow our hearts.

You probably quoted the wrong post in your reply.

So is there a purpose of our life or not (no matter what kind of)?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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Are you trying to say that there must be purpose of our lives (i.e. kind of target mission we must accomplish, which is set up by some god)?

The new Risk game is like that. You used to have to take over the whole world to win but now you just have to do something like, "Occupy three countries in four continents."

[happythoughts 0]

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By the time I was finished talking to him and praying for him he was screeching, "Who are you?" He fled the area.

Well... there's a scene we can understand.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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So is there a purpose of our life or not (no matter what kind of)?

I answered your question in bold, but ended up writing alot.

I have no reason to believe that anything with life does not have purpose. It seems it is all connected in some way. It is even possible that you and I are related. It is probable that in war, families fight against each other without knowing they are related in blood. We learn from suffering and death and also from love and joy. The learning can be, and often is strong enough for a revelation. A revelation will change a perception, and a perception has the power to transcend space and time... which makes it universal and eternal.

Yes, I believe there is a purpose in/to/of our lives. Consider an absolute perfect circle. Take away even just one portion of it... just the smallest brush of the line, and the circle is no longer perfect. Life is this circle, and all peices have there place.

Another thing to consider is two completely different civilizations. Even without influence from one another, there will be incredible similarites in love, that is if fear doesnt provoke ignorance, intolerance, and agression first. Have you ever heard the saying "If you dont understand it, get rid of it"? That is all fear. But, it is through this understanding that we find the revelations of love and peace as well.

dz.com is not the first time I have been confronted about aliens. I often wonder that if life is truly all about survival, as many scientists maintain, then if life (intelligent or not) is found in another enviornment, more likely than not, they would be as hostile in thier ignorance as us. I would look for a connecting force on their planet but also one that beckons survival, and therefore, some type of defence, such as fear and aggression. But, I have no reason to not believe their connecting force would not have incredible similarities to ours... do I?

I view love as a universal force and just as powerful as it is invisible. I view life as the mirror that reflects its light. sorry i wrote so much

"We didn't start the fire"

[RonD1120 58]

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That's why I suggested you ask Jehova Witnesses, not try to explain something to them.

Oh I did. It starts with, do you accept Jesus Christ of Nazareth as the Son of God? Followed by, do you believe in the Holy Trinity? That is usually enough to get them dancing around the Old Testament and avoiding the New Testament.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

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By the time I was finished talking to him and praying for him he was screeching, "Who are you?" He fled the area.

Well... there's a scene we can understand.

Good one!

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[RonD1120 58]

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Ive read this exact article before. Here on dz.com actually.. about 2 years ago. It seems this man has forfeited his right to hope. So, while his intellect is quite inspiring for some, his spirit is leading the dead. I know many dont like me using that word, but, a man who has no hope is already dead... just not in the ground yet. Its sad to me how many he is leading away, and how many cant wait to believe there is no God.

Let us not lose sight of the fact, the man makes a living creating illusions.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[dmcoco84 4]

It’s funny how things happen, at particular times… I’m glad you started this thread.

OK! Now that the bickering is mostly done… Let's go back to the Founders. Shall We?

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The founders were VERY careful to ensure that this country was a secular country, not a religious one.

That statement is 100%… Incorrect.

Actually, the Founders felt the role of religion would be as important in our own day as it was in theirs.

You are correct though, we are not a Christian nation, nor did the Founders ever intend us to be.

However, they did speak of, the “Religion of America."

Spelling

[Andy9o8 0]

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Ive read this exact article before. Here on dz.com actually.. about 2 years ago. It seems this man has forfeited his right to hope. So, while his intellect is quite inspiring for some, his spirit is leading the dead. I know many dont like me using that word, but, a man who has no hope is already dead... just not in the ground yet. Its sad to me how many he is leading away, and how many cant wait to believe there is no God.

Let us not lose sight of the fact, the man makes a living creating illusions.

So does every clergyman on the face of the Earth.

[jakee 1,255]

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Another thing to consider is two completely different civilizations. Even without influence from one another, there will be incredible similarites in love, that is if fear doesnt provoke ignorance, intolerance, and agression first.

Great prediction! "This will definitely happen! .... Unless it doesn't."

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,255]

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If life came from nothing (as many of you suggest), I think it is safe to say that life by its very nature, can never die.

Safe to say? Why? What on earth is the connection that makes you conclude that?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

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OK! Now that the bickering is mostly done… Let's go back to the Founders. Shall We? oh please could we

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The founders were VERY careful to ensure that this country was a secular country, not a religious one.

That statement is 100%… Incorrect.

Actually, the Founders felt the role of religion would be as important in our own day as it was in theirs.

You are correct though, we are not a Christian nation, nor did the Founders ever intend us to be.

So, as stated earlier, I disagree with you - the founders intended for the US "Government" to be secular. The US society at the time was a christian nation since it was composed of christians.

I think that was extremely insightful of them - to avoid societal pressure and try to keep the government in check - (as England did NOT keep religion out of government).

As for it being a christian "society" today? It's much less so, we have a more diverse mix.

I think the founders wanted a secular government, but wanted the country to be allowed to be whatever it would be without the government interfering on that particular area.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Andy9o8 0]

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the founders intended for the US "Government" to be secular. The US society at the time was a christian nation since it was composed of christians.

I think that was extremely insightful of them - to avoid societal pressure and try to keep the government in check - (as England did NOT keep religion out of government).

As for it being a christian "society" today? It's much less so, we have a more diverse mix.

I think the founders wanted a secular government, but wanted the country to be allowed to be whatever it would be without the government interfering on that particular area.

Agreed 100%. Well stated.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

OK! Now that the bickering is mostly done… Let's go back to the Founders. Shall We?

...be my guest.

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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Safe to say? Why? What on earth is the connection that makes you conclude that?

If something came from nothing, how exactly do you conclude it cant happen again? That is, if life was to be completely eliminated from the universe, and you maintain that something can come from nothing, how do you conclude that life can die?

It seems more likely that something came from something.. sort of like life itself is an eternal force that sustains its existance even in space... Isnt it a bit curious to know that life in you had to come from life? A quality of life is that it can create life... it does not come from nothing, it comes from life itself.

"We didn't start the fire"

[Andy9o8 0]

You're expressing a lack of understanding of science (and are therefore mischaracterizing it), combined with the ancient human tendency to invent spiritual explanation to fill in still-pending gaps of knowledge. In any event, I don't know any modern scientist that claims that life "came from nothing"; simply put, life came from elemental compounds that, eventually, and under the right conditions, were the pre-cursors of life.

Where did the elements of the universe originally come from? Some of that can be reasonably explained given Earth humans' current level of scientific understanding, while some of it has not yet been explained, requiring our species' (and/or furure descendant species') development of yet further scientific understanding. But just because we, at this stage of our development, haven't figured it all out yet doesn't mean that it's the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[jakee 1,255]

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If something came from nothing, how exactly do you conclude it cant happen again? That is, if life was to be completely eliminated from the universe, and you maintain that something can come from nothing, how do you conclude that life can die?

It seems more likely that something came from something.. sort of like life itself is an eternal force that sustains its existance even in space... Isnt it a bit curious to know that life in you had to come from life? A quality of life is that it can create life... it does not come from nothing, it comes from life itself.

None of what you have just written means anything.

It is nonsense, it is gobbledegook, it is impossible to reply to.

When you can speak english, we can have a conversation, until then, you're just making random noises.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[frequentfaller 0]

The problem with many of these theories is that you need to be more than just a genius. You also need to be highly educated in mathematics, as well as being highly creative in your thinking.

but as far as i understand it, the big bang came from an infintesible small point, a singularity. not nothing.
there are many theroies of what caused it to explode / expand, but we will never know how or why in our lifetime.

or we could just go head and believe some invisible being created the universe, in the wrong order. "let there be light"

Born ok 1st time.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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You're expressing a lack of understanding of science (and are therefore mischaracterizing it), combined with the ancient human tendency to invent spiritual explanation to fill in still-pending gaps of knowledge.

It seems as educated scientific minds continue to evolve and reveal, so do spiritually minded minds, and so do other types of minds. But, I wonder what a thousand years would do to the "tendencies" of both of them? No matter what the wise and the learned find, there will always be a heart in man... And humbleness is a great reward in life. I personally dont think that life was not intended to be greater than that which it gives life to, its not going to reveal everything is it... that goes against its survival "codes". But, if the truth is eternal, then it can be found in our minds and in our hearts... right now. The wisdom of God lives in the heart of man, but we refuse to see that it is in repentance and faith. As weak men we refuse to see that humbleness is a greater reward than self pride. My only question is why?

I still maintain that life "evolved", "changed" "adapted" certain minds for certain things, and that is why we all dont understand each other, but in the meantime, the future is being uncovered. It could mean that something too bright for us to look at is underneath it all. But again, certain minds for certain things means there is a purpose to it all, and I cant avoid that in my mind. I got a frieind who is very scientific, really good mechanic... personally, I think hes brilliant. (Kinda goofy looking if you judge by appearances) but a real genuine guy. So, a 20 yr old, genuine, scientific, brilliant freind adamantly believes there is no God, and is incredibly relying 100% on the mind of man... is this just a coincidence? He's not the only one who has shocked me with scientific wisdom. I like it alot, especially cosmology, but I dont study it becasue my mind is trained elsewhere. Lately alot has been on skydiving to be honest... its no secret that Jesus is the ruler of it all though to people who know me... at least I hope not.

So in short, I think it is fascinating what our minds have been able to do. Skydiving alone is made possible by so many great minds, believers and non-believers alike... I personally just dont think its all coincidence. Not only that, I believe that grace is the greatest secret and that nothing will ever come close to it, not even skydiving. Grace for me makes everything that much better, even in the sufferings. God wants our hearts and it seems he gives us whats in our minds. My mind is trained to speak so that others may hear, thats it. Its wild to me how much negative attention the Gospel attracts, and it is a great message of peace and love. I mean what message are we waiting for to see the truth, if not a message of love? A message of sin and rebellion? That was already given to us through the law, to find grace. We can put Heaven back on earth, but it has to come from within our own hearts and minds, and there has to be a King. Just as life bears life, there has to be an origin and therefore a purpose.

Etided to add a bit...

"We didn't start the fire"

[dmcoco84 4]

Well stated... Yes, and some years ago, I would have agreed.

But according to the words of our Founders... that explanation would also be, Incorrect.

Is that it... no one else? Not even a questioning into the last three words of my post?

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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." Thomas Jefferson

Billvon, no comments?

Quade? Considering you have the Don’t Tread On Me rattlesnake as your profile picture, I had hoped you would jump right on that. Though, you decided not to answer any of my additional PMs after confirming that, so, I’m not sure why you have used it for the past 5 years, in various places, as you stated.

Is it along the lines of what Benjamin Franklin spoke about... or maybe the Sons of Liberty? Neither? There have been several uses and means for those words and that symbol...

Shrug...

What about in schools? Does the majority agree with Nightingale? Even though, some of the things she stated are, kinda contradictive... that isn’t how our Founders felt.

They actually believed, that along with knowledge and morality, religion should be taught in public schools... the,

“Religion of America.”

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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Is that it... no one else?

Ill stir...

How much difference does it make? I think America was founded to be a free country, for everyone to be free. Its a great idea and it shows that when it works, it is worth dying for, but when it doesnt, it teaches us why. True freedom comes from understanding, something that many pretend to have.

Freedom, with genuine conflict, discussed in a "non-hostile" enviorment, with people of great character, some Christian, some not, is what America was founded on. Beleivers or not, I think any one of them might be shocked to see some of the things we have compromised on, however, America was founded on compromise. So what we are seeing is the idea of compromise evolving, not necessarily the idea of freedom. Freedom is found in the heart, and its reward is greater than compromise.

"We didn't start the fire"

[RonD1120 58]

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I believe that grace is the greatest secret and that nothing will ever come close to it, not even skydiving. Grace for me makes everything that much better, even in the sufferings. God wants our hearts and it seems he gives us whats in our minds. My mind is trained to speak so that others may hear, thats it. Its wild to me how much negative attention the Gospel attracts, and it is a great message of peace and love. I mean what message are we waiting for to see the truth, if not a message of love? A message of sin and rebellion? That was already given to us through the law, to find grace. We can put Heaven back on earth, but it has to come from within our own hearts and minds, and there has to be a King. Just as life bears life, there has to be an origin and therefore a purpose.

Grace is unmerited favor, the essence of agape type love. It can only come from God, our Father.

To be in the depths of a seriously bad, life threatening, position of self-induced degradation and misery is debilitation of the worst kind. Then, to be lifted out of that circumstance and completely set free from the bondage that the circumstance created is a true miracle. This miracle is created by doing nothing more than humbly surrendering to God in the name of Jesus Christ. In that state of humility, uttering simple prayer, asking Jesus to come into your heart and take control and He does.

Those of us for whom this experience is real we try to share the good news to those in need. To reach those in need we make broadcasts into the unknown by means of all media formats.

It saddens me to realize that regardless of the type of forum, the non-believer will attack the intent of the testimony with vicious ferocity.

My purpose for posting, as I believe is yours as well, is to provide the message of hope in the Gospel to those who need it and to have fellowship with like minded believers.

Any subject in this or other forums has many more lurkers than posters. My hope and prayer is that the desperate reader catches the brass ring of hope, peace and security through Jesus Christ.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Yeah, I use way too many words to try and express whats in my heart. I hate it, but its how I write I guess. Id trade all the words I have ever written or spoken for someone to meet the Jesus I met. In his power, not in my expression of it.

"We didn't start the fire"

[dmcoco84 4]

You are ok with a, Christmas, tree... but you are not ok with a Menorah? That’s pretty discriminatory, or would you rather see the Star of David? A tree has nothing to do with Islam, nor Judaism... or any other religion, only Christianity. Also, I would think Christians would more so relate to the cross a stronger symbol, than that of a tree… is a tree a less offensive symbol to that of a cross?

Could you elaborate on your status as agnostic? Dictionary.com says - a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

Do you simply feel that, if there is a God... a Creator. The human mind is finite, and cannot understand the infinite... that of a supreme being. You don’t deny that there is one, you just simply don’t feel we can know the truth until death, and until then, you don’t want to hear about a specific one, when it comes to the things you posted about. Would that be correct?

For, if so... given that you are a Lawyer, I am surprised that you are not familiar with what the Founders felt was, the “Religion of America.”

What turns you off about the Ten Commandments? Hypothetically, if you were to take out 1-4, maybe 5 too... do you agree with the last 5?

Without Religion, where does your Moral Code come from? What is your Moral Code?

God off the money, that’s important for later... maybe a different thread even.

Out of the pledge... same as with the money.

Lastly... How do you teach about religion in schools, without teaching religion? How do you teach about Christianity, Judaism, Islam... Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Jainism... there is Taoism and Confucianism... not to forget Gnosticism, which throws Christianity into a loop. Learned some interesting things about the Gnostic Gospels in a wonderful book called, Change of Heart, which is not a book about religion, but about a decision.

What about the religions of the Native Americans, we couldn’t possibly discriminate against them... with how much they have been screwed over in the past.

How do you differentiate all of these religions... and there are more... and not, “teach religion”?
I don’t see how that works...

But see... all of that is solved with the words of our Founders.

Coco

[dmcoco84 4]

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How much difference does it make?

It makes a huge difference...

Freedom comes from Knowledge...

Why do you think it was illegal to teach a slave how to read?

Because once they knew how to learn... they would learn how to set themselves free.