Senate to vote on health care bill unconstitutionality!

[loumeinhart 0]

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Unfortunately too many individuals have abused this right by obtaining medical service and not paying for it, therefore forcing other individuals to pay for their services through increased premiums and decreased services. Sorry, but others have rights too, and they do not want to pay for someone else getting free healthcare. And unless you can guarantee that when you need a major medical service you will be able to pay for it timely and in full, you'd be expecting others to pay for your healthcare. They have rights not to do it.

You are absolutely right. Unfortunately we disagree on the solution.

[georgerussia 0]

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Frankly yes, yes, and yes. I hate to throw down a strawman but do you realize that with true profit-driven competition these treatable hardships would actually be affordable??

I don't understand what you said. Did you say that you ARE able to afford a 100K bill surgery right now, or that you WOULD be able to afford it in some idealistic conditions, which do not exist right now, and will likely never exist?

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I mean, people are paying out of pocket for Lasik, Boobs, Teeth, Hair, etc.. because private businesses are .....competeing.... for their business. !

Well, it is also because none of them is required to treat everyone no matter whether they are able to pay! Did you consider that?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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You are absolutely right. Unfortunately we disagree on the solution.

So what is your solution? Please be realistic, and specific, and concentrate on implementation, not on theories.
(as a common example, "tort reform" is not specific).

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[jcd11235 0]

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I hate to throw down a strawman but do you realize that with true profit-driven competition these treatable hardships would actually be affordable??

I mean, people are paying out of pocket for Lasik, Boobs, Teeth, Hair, etc.. because private businesses are .....competeing.... for their business. !

The cost of Lasik has plummeted. Not because the Federal Government has gotten involved, but rather private Lasik companies have risen to the occasion by introducing new technology that allows laser eye surgery to afford people like me 20/20 vision without correction

Do you really think that competition will offer the same benefits to non-optional medical procedures, such as emergency surgery? I don't think it will (or even can). Since consumers do not have an option to shop around for their best value for such procedures or even be reasonably informed enough to identify the best value, then there is no need for suppliers to price competitively. They divvy up the demand side of the market in other ways, such as location.

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[tkhayes 138]

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So you provide insurance and paid sick days for the people that work for you? Or do you avoid doing that by claiming they are sub-contractors?

asked and answered a dozen fucking times in other threads....

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How much will tandem and jump tickets go up if the Gov't decides that your aff and tandem people are really employees and can join SEIU?

I will raise jump prices, as will everyone else I expect. Duh!

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If they decide that skydivers that hook turn or have wing loading above 1.0 should pay five times what "normal" people do, what will you do?

which part of the legislation addresses hook turns? I must have missed that.....

In case you had not noticed, skydivers already get screwed by the insurance companies. or maybe you missed that.

[bodypilot90 0]

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So you provide insurance and paid sick days for the people that work for you? Or do you avoid doing that by claiming they are sub-contractors?

asked and answered a dozen fucking times in other threads....

So you are not doing the "right thing"? So doing the right thing is ok with other peoples money but not yours?

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If they decide that skydivers that hook turn or have wing loading above 1.0 should pay five times what "normal" people do, what will you do?

which part of the legislation addresses hook turns? I must have missed that.....

In case you had not noticed, skydivers already get screwed by the insurance companies. or maybe you missed that.

all this health insurance is about gov't regulating your life. Next is a beer tax or ban maybe a french fry ban because it causes to health issues. Maybe a fat tax based on BMI.

Instead of all this crap u libs are pushing how about tort reform, cross state boarder insurance sales? how about running the illegals out of our nation till they come in the right way?

[tkhayes 138]

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So you provide insurance and paid sick days for the people that work for you? Or do you avoid doing that by claiming they are sub-contractors?

asked and answered a dozen fucking times in other threads....

So you are not doing the "right thing"? So doing the right thing is ok with other peoples money but not yours?

ASKED and ANSWERED a dozen fucking times in other threads....

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all this health insurance is about gov't regulating your life. Next is a beer tax or ban maybe a french fry ban because it causes to health issues. Maybe a fat tax based on BMI.

as opposed to INSURANCE companies regulating my life. I already pay a fat tax, a beer tax, and dozens of other taxes. The insurance companies 'tax' me for my lifestyle and they tax me for anything is may or might be wrong with me in the future.

you are living in an illusion if you think that private insurance is the 'answer' and some how they will take care of us when we are sick or injured.

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Instead of all this crap u libs are pushing how about tort reform, cross state boarder insurance sales? how about running the illegals out of our nation till they come in the right way?

no argument from me - did you write your congressperson to ask for that? I did, many times....

[kallend 1,635]

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So, you're saying you DIDN'T know what you were talking about when you mentioned my body and private property, upthread.

No, I am not saying that. I'm saying that your "I've read the Constitution" argument is very weak, and you're not the first using it to "prove" something which is not true.

Well, since you obviously know better, prove to me where Congress has the authority.

He doesn't have to. The Supreme Court has to decide it. You can read the Constitution every night before going to bed and your opinion on its meaning still means diddley squat.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,635]

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you just explained why health insurance should be mandatory for everyone,

I pay cash when I go to the doctor.
I pash cash when I go to the dentist.
I pay cash when I go to the eye doctor.

Why do I need insurance?

I hope you have enough cash on hand when your meds cost $4,000 a month, every month, and you need that $250,000 surgery.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[loumeinhart 0]

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So what is your solution?

My solution is to

1. Put a $$ cap on lawsuit damages. (This would slash liability insurance sosts)

2. Allow anyone/anywhere to purchase insurance from anyone/anywhere (more supply=lower costs)

3. Let me choose my coverage

...hold on to your britches for this one...

4. I keep the right to not purchase or be taxed for health insurance at all.

[kallend 1,635]

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So what is your solution?

My solution is to

1. Put a $$ cap on lawsuit damages. (This would slash liability insurance sosts)

OK, so that saves 0.5% overall (according to the non-partisan CBO). BFD.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[loumeinhart 0]

[rehmwa 2]

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… the government will then take the next step - single payer.

We can only hope.

Who will it be? Warren Buffet? Bill Gates?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 1,635]

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… the government will then take the next step - single payer.

We can only hope.

Who will it be? Warren Buffet? Bill Gates?

Didn't you get the nod?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[loumeinhart 0]

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I hope you have enough cash on hand when your meds cost $4,000 a month, every month, and you need that $250,000 surgery

I've been working my calculator all day and I still can't figure this out

[normiss 622]

I think that was his point.


Paying cash for medical is awesome, until you need meds that cost you $4k a month. Or emergency surgery that costs $250k.

I know a skydiver that busted up an ankle, no insurance, hospital bills are over $100k. Paying them off $50 a month is going to take longer than he will live.

[jcd11235 0]

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Well, since you obviously know better, prove to me where Congress has the authority.

Check out the General Welfare clause of Article 1, Section eight of the Constitution.

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[mnealtx 0]

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Well, since you obviously know better, prove to me where Congress has the authority.

Check out the General Welfare clause of Article 1, Section eight of the Constitution.

Nope. There is NO authority for congress to FORCE me into a financial contract. Not in Article 1, not in the Commerce Clause - nowhere.

But, since you mention it, it can be argued that "but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States" makes the Senate bill unconstitutional due to the advantages given to specific Florida counties, Louisiana and Nebraska.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jcd11235 0]

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Well, since you obviously know better, prove to me where Congress has the authority.

Check out the General Welfare clause of Article 1, Section eight of the Constitution.

Nope. There is NO authority for congress to FORCE me into a financial contract. Not in Article 1, not in the Commerce Clause - nowhere.

They can tax you for health care and offer an income tax credit on health insurance premiums with their Constitutionally granted powers.

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But, since you mention it, it can be argued that "but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States" makes the Senate bill unconstitutional due to the advantages given to specific Florida counties, Louisiana and Nebraska.

Perhaps you missed Amendment 16, which amends/clarifies that clause:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

So, no, your argument doesn't withstand scrutiny.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[mnealtx 0]

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Well, since you obviously know better, prove to me where Congress has the authority.

Check out the General Welfare clause of Article 1, Section eight of the Constitution.

Nope. There is NO authority for congress to FORCE me into a financial contract. Not in Article 1, not in the Commerce Clause - nowhere.

They can tax you for health care and offer an income tax credit on health insurance premiums with their Constitutionally granted powers.

They can tax - maybe you can point out where it speaks of tax credits in the Article, I can't seem to find it.

Regardless, there's nothing in the article that says they can MANDATE that I enter into any sort of financial contract.

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But, since you mention it, it can be argued that "but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States" makes the Senate bill unconstitutional due to the advantages given to specific Florida counties, Louisiana and Nebraska.

Perhaps you missed Amendment 16, which amends/clarifies that clause:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

So, no, your argument doesn't withstand scrutiny.

[jcd11235 0]

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Well, since you obviously know better, prove to me where Congress has the authority.

Check out the General Welfare clause of Article 1, Section eight of the Constitution.

Nope. There is NO authority for congress to FORCE me into a financial contract. Not in Article 1, not in the Commerce Clause - nowhere.

They can tax you for health care and offer an income tax credit on health insurance premiums with their Constitutionally granted powers.

They can tax - maybe you can point out where it speaks of tax credits in the Article, I can't seem to find it.

Regardless, there's nothing in the article that says they can MANDATE that I enter into any sort of financial contract.

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But, since you mention it, it can be argued that "but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States" makes the Senate bill unconstitutional due to the advantages given to specific Florida counties, Louisiana and Nebraska.

Perhaps you missed Amendment 16, which amends/clarifies that clause:

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

So, no, your argument doesn't withstand scrutiny.

Perhaps YOU missed that I did not mention taxes in talking about the unconstitutionality of the bill.

[mnealtx 0]

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Nice backpedal.

Still waiting on you to show me where Congress can mandate that I have to buy anything.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jcd11235 0]

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Nice backpedal.

Still waiting on you to show me where Congress can mandate that I have to buy anything.

I did, Article 1, §8, via the General Welfare clause. I also told you how they could do it, via taxes and tax credits.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[mnealtx 0]

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Nice backpedal.

Still waiting on you to show me where Congress can mandate that I have to buy anything.

I did, Article 1, §8, via the General Welfare clause. I also told you how they could do it, via taxes and tax credits.

No. You showed where they collect taxes - you did NOT show where they can mandate that I enter into a financial contract with ANYONE.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[jcd11235 0]

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You showed where they collect taxes - you did NOT show where they can mandate that I enter into a financial contract with ANYONE.

Id did do that. If you choose to ignore the explanation, there's not much point in discussing it.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!