Senate to vote on health care bill unconstitutionality!

[georgerussia 0]

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I don't have to purchase insurance if I don't own a car. I don't have to purchase auto insurance if I own a car and keep it on my private property.

However you do own your body, which would need healthcare sooner or later, and I doubt you will keep it on your private property for your whole life.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

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I don't have to purchase insurance if I don't own a car. I don't have to purchase auto insurance if I own a car and keep it on my private property.

However you do own your body, which would need healthcare sooner or later, and I doubt you will keep it on your private property for your whole life.

And this is germane, how? Congress has NO authority to mandate that I buy anything.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[bodypilot90 0]

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So rather than 'constitutional arguments', maybe they could instead spend their efforts trying to do some thing 'for the people'

So you provide insurance and paid sick days for the people that work for you? Or do you avoid doing that by claiming they are sub-contractors?

If not why are you not doing the "right thing" for your people?


How much will tandem and jump tickets go up if the Gov't decides that your aff and tandem people are really employees and can join SEIU?

If they decide that skydivers that hook turn or have wing loading above 1.0 should pay five times what "normal" people do, what will you do?

[bodypilot90 0]

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… the government will then take the next step - single payer.

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We can only hope.

you mean like this one? I sure don't want it here.

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EDMONTON - Alberta health superboard says it's trying to eliminate its $1.3 billion deficit by cutting hundreds of health-care jobs.

Alberta Health Services has cut 660 jobs by not filling vacant positions and another 550 staff have agreed to take voluntary buyouts. Many of the job cuts involve management and clerical staff, but there are also an unspecific number of nursing jobs being cut.

http://aol.mediresource.com/channel_health_news_details.asp?news_id=19943&channel_id=131



EDMONTON — Alberta Health Services is borrowing $220 million from the Royal Bank to help cover an overall deficit expected to sit at $1.24 billion by the end of the fiscal year which ends March 31.

That's slightly down from the original deficit estimate of nearly $1.27 billion--not including the $100 to $150 million spent on the H1N1 vaccination campaign--but CEO Stephen Duckett said more loans could be needed in the future.

"We're able to cover our deficit at the moment," Duckett said after Alberta's health superboard released its second quarter fiscal update Thursday.

"Obviously, if we continue on our current trend, we'll have to borrow some more, which is what we said at the start of the year."

Duckett said the board has received approximately 450 suggestions from health-care staff on how to save the system money, the best of which Duckett will reward with prizes out of his own pocket.

The board continues to look for ways to save another $550 million each year on top of the $650 million it says it has already found by introducing voluntary retirement packages, leaving 650 job postings empty and consolidating the payroll departments from the former health regions. So far, about two per cent of employees eligible for voluntary retirement packages have applied, although only a handful have been accepted to date,

Read it on Global News: Alberta Health borrows $220M to cover deficit


http://news.globaltv.com/money/Alberta+Health+borrows+220M+cover+deficit/2299927/story.html


Alberta Hospital is downsizing and closing some of its acute care beds, the province announced Friday.

The 400-bed, mental health facility in northeast Edmonton will close some of its older buildings and move more patients into community care.

Patients with acute mental health care needs will be admitted to beds in other hospitals in the province.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/edmonton/story/2009/08/14/edmonton-alberta-hospital-downsizing.html

Boy that seem like such a good idea!

[georgerussia 0]

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And this is germane, how? Congress has NO authority to mandate that I buy anything.

How'd you know they do not?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

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And this is germane, how? Congress has NO authority to mandate that I buy anything.

How'd you know they do not?

Because I've read the Constitution.

Tell me you think they DO.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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Because I've read the Constitution.

And so? Some people read the Constitution, and then claim we don't have to pay income tax, or that it doesn't allow ordinary citizens to bear arms. And their arguments (and often credentials) sound solid - but apparently courts disagree with them. Your interpretation of Constitution may also be wrong.

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Tell me you think they DO.

I believe in "innocent until proven guilty". If you're saying the government violated the Constitution, then prove it by legal means, and I'll agree with you.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

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Because I've read the Constitution.

And so? Some people read the Constitution, and then claim we don't have to pay income tax, or that it doesn't allow ordinary citizens to bear arms. And their arguments (and often credentials) sound solid - but apparently courts disagree with them. Your interpretation of Constitution may also be wrong.

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Tell me you think they DO.

I believe in "innocent until proven guilty". If you're saying the government violated the Constitution, then prove it by legal means, and I'll agree with you.

So, you're saying you DIDN'T know what you were talking about when you mentioned my body and private property, upthread.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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So, you're saying you DIDN'T know what you were talking about when you mentioned my body and private property, upthread.

No, I am not saying that. I'm saying that your "I've read the Constitution" argument is very weak, and you're not the first using it to "prove" something which is not true.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

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So, you're saying you DIDN'T know what you were talking about when you mentioned my body and private property, upthread.

No, I am not saying that. I'm saying that your "I've read the Constitution" argument is very weak, and you're not the first using it to "prove" something which is not true.

Well, since you obviously know better, prove to me where Congress has the authority.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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Well, since you obviously know better, prove to me where Congress has the authority.

Nope. You are the one claiming they do not, despite the fact the bill is about to be passed, and obviously went through a bunch of lawyers. So it's your job to prove your point. So far we only have your words.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

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Well, since you obviously know better, prove to me where Congress has the authority.

Nope. You are the one claiming they do not, despite the fact the bill is about to be passed, and obviously went through a bunch of lawyers. So it's your job to prove your point. So far we only have your words.

Ah, another repeat of the gun thread.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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Ah, another repeat of the gun thread.

You stated something (in this case that Congress does not have authority to pass the bill), and did not provide any facts to support your position. When asked to stand behind your position, you went to typical "I'm saying that; prove I'm wrong" reply. So yes, it looks pretty much the same as the gun thread.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[mnealtx 0]

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Ah, another repeat of the gun thread.

You stated something (in this case that Congress does not have authority to pass the bill), and did not provide any facts to support your position. When asked to stand behind your position, you went to typical "I'm saying that; prove I'm wrong" reply. So yes, it looks pretty much the same as the gun thread.

Yup - I thought you MIGHT actually have some sort of data to back up your claim, unlike the gun thread, where Ron, kelpdiver and myself have ALL provided data, unlike YOUR contributions about kids going to get guns from Yurio Orlov.

Since you once again ducked out on providing ANYTHING to back up your bullshit, I decided not to play your game again.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[georgerussia 0]

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Yup - I thought you MIGHT actually have some sort of data to back up your claim, unlike the gun thread, where Ron, kelpdiver and myself have ALL provided data

Probably there is some language disconnection, but I was taught that what you say or write is just opinion, not data. It may be based on some data, in which case it is your interpretation of data. Only when you point out to the information source you used, it may be considered data.

Now let's look what kind of "data" you have provided in this thread:

1. Congress has NO authority to mandate that I buy anything.

This is definitely not data. No explanation why you think so, no external references, no quotes, just your statement. Now to the question why do you think so:

2. Because I've read the Constitution..

This is not data again, this is again your opinion. You never pointed out any particular article, nor explained why exactly you think so. You also never explained why your interpretation contradicts with the one from Congress/Senate lawyers, as the bill went through numerical reviews, voted by Congress and Senate and has support from President - apparently what you're saying is that you know more about Constitution than lawyers, senators, congressmen and President together. At the same time you're not even a lawyer, so the obvious question is how much your interpretation weights. But no data either.

3. So, you're saying you DIDN'T know what you were talking about when you mentioned my body and private property, upthread.

No data at all.

4. Well, since you obviously know better, prove to me where Congress has the authority.

Now you're ASKING for data, not providing it.

And finally a quote above.
Indeed, quite the same amount of "data" as in the gun thread!

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Since you once again ducked out on providing ANYTHING to back up your bullshit, I decided not to play your game again.

No wonder. Thank you for your time.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[jcd11235 0]

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Congress has NO authority to mandate that I buy anything.

Congress does have the authority to tax you, as well as the authority to legislate a tax credit. Since these tools appear to be what Congress plans to utilize to mandate health insurance, they seem to be within their Constitutionally granted power doing so.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[loumeinhart 0]

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However you do own your body, which would need healthcare sooner or later, and I doubt you will keep it on your private property for your whole life.

Hey George Russia, I don't "own" my body. I "AM" my body. Ownership can transfer, bodies can't. You have no idea what's good for me, yet you think people in washington DC do.

[loumeinhart 0]

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Congress does have the authority to tax you, as well as the authority to legislate a tax credit. Since these tools appear to be what Congress plans to utilize to mandate health insurance, they seem to be within their Constitutionally granted power doing so.

100%

Example: California workman's comp tax. Some call it a "Premium" that a business pays.

The problem is that it's mandatory. That makes it a TAX. You cannot argue this point. If you or your business is forced to "pay" then it is absolutely a TAX.

[georgerussia 0]

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Hey George Russia, I don't "own" my body. I "AM" my body. Ownership can transfer, bodies can't.

Good - you just explained why health insurance should be mandatory for everyone, while car insurance may not.

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You have no idea what's good for me, yet you think people in washington DC do.

You know, this is a 300M people country, and you're just one of them. Expecting every law to be good for you personally is kinda naive.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[loumeinhart 0]

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you just explained why health insurance should be mandatory for everyone,

I pay cash when I go to the doctor.
I pash cash when I go to the dentist.
I pay cash when I go to the eye doctor.

Why do I need insurance?

[georgerussia 0]

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I pay cash when I go to the doctor.
I pash cash when I go to the dentist.
I pay cash when I go to the eye doctor.
Why do I need insurance?

If you need appendix removal, are you gonna pay cash too?
If you get into car accident (which may be your fault), and need MRI and brain surgery, are you gonna pay cash too?
If you get cancer, are you gonna pay cash for your treatment?

Those things can happen to ANYONE, no matter how good shape you're in, or how healthy lifestyle you're living. So are you going to pay cash for all this (and having no insurance you'd have to pay hospital rates, which are higher), and can you do it timely, and not like someone here offered "$20 a month"?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[loumeinhart 0]

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this is a 300M people country, and you're just one of them

Excuse me sir. I am NOT just one of "them" I am an individual with liberties and choices and freedoms that so many have died for. How dare you group me into "you're just one of them". What am I a fucking robot? Just one of them??? Rethink your shit. I am an individual with rights and I do NOT have to buy health insurance if I don't want to.

Thank You

[georgerussia 0]

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Excuse me sir. I am NOT just one of "them" I am an individual with liberties and choices and freedoms that so many have died for. How dare you group me into "you're just one of them".

Sorry, sir, you can be whoever you want, but do not expect Congress to pass a law which would be suited exclusively for you. You may consider yourself whatever you want, but your vote worth as much as the other guy's vote.

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I am an individual with rights and I do NOT have to buy health insurance if I don't want to.

Unfortunately too many individuals have abused this right by obtaining medical service and not paying for it, therefore forcing other individuals to pay for their services through increased premiums and decreased services. Sorry, but others have rights too, and they do not want to pay for someone else getting free healthcare. And unless you can guarantee that when you need a major medical service you will be able to pay for it timely and in full, you'd be expecting others to pay for your healthcare. They have rights not to do it.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[loumeinhart 0]

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Those things can happen to ANYONE, no matter how good shape you're in, or how healthy lifestyle you're living. So are you going to pay cash for all this (and having no insurance you'd have to pay hospital rates, which are higher), and can you do it timely, and not like someone here offered "$20 a month"?

Frankly yes, yes, and yes. I hate to throw down a strawman but do you realize that with true profit-driven competition these treatable hardships would actually be affordable??

I mean, people are paying out of pocket for Lasik, Boobs, Teeth, Hair, etc.. because private businesses are .....competeing.... for their business. !

The cost of Lasik has plummeted. Not because the Federal Government has gotten involved, but rather private Lasik companies have risen to the occasion by introducing new technology that allows laser eye surgery to afford people like me 20/20 vision without correction

[loumeinhart 0]

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Unfortunately too many individuals have abused this right by obtaining medical service and not paying for it

I always pay first. Who doesn't?