Overheard at the DZ, re: health care

[billvon 2,470]

We got fined for not paying a toll on a local toll road a few weeks ago. The toll machine was broken, and there was a guy in the tollbooth saying "just go, you can pay the toll later online." He would not take the money we offered, oddly.

Well, two weeks later we got a letter with the $3 toll and a $50 fine. We wrote a letter, someone said they knew someone we could talk to etc.

Another jumper (who often listens to right wing radio) oveheard this conversation and said "and these are the people you want in charge of your healthcare?"

Amy said "uh, Tom, it's a privately operated toll road."

[Bolas 5]

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[kallend 1,677]

Yeah, well Stephen Hawking would be long dead if he lived in England.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[LyraM45 0]

I went through something similar in the post office recently. Some loud offensive looking older man obviously from TX (boots, tight pants, belt buckle, and TX flag button down shirt and all....well, this did happen in TX ), turns around, very annoyed like he had been waiting 30 minutes but in fact had only been waiting five minutes, to the whole line of people and loudly exclaims, "And this is the people you want running your health care??"

Ummmm... no sir. First, the post office is an independent civilian employed "quasi-governmental" agency. And second.... ummmm..... I don't think the mail man will have anything to do with my health care. I just laughed to myself and kept quiet because I know you can't argue with stupid.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I went through something similar in the post office recently. Some loud offensive looking older man obviously from TX (boots, tight pants, belt buckle, and TX flag button down shirt and all....well, this did happen in TX ), turns around, very annoyed like he had been waiting 30 minutes but in fact had only been waiting five minutes, to the whole line of people and loudly exclaims, "And this is the people you want running your health care??"

I'd love health care to run like the post office.

While it costs me $16 to mail a letter privately (say, via FedEx second day where I have to drop it off) the post office makes do on just $.44 to provide door-to-door service with no extras for more expensive customers like those living in rural areas (they'll even fly mail in by plane) and usually gets it there just as fast

Going to the post office off peak hours doesn't involve any waiting. The last few times I've seen a medical professional off-peak hours it's been half an hour with a scheduled appointment, plus extras if I had to be sent down the hall for an X-ray.

And if I really want, I can pay twenty times as much to get the same premium service (things like next day) I get from private companies at a competitive rate.

Of course this isn't relevant, because the public option has been eliminated for all but 80,000,000 of us (on which we spend as much as other nations do to insure all their populations).

[brenthutch 388]

same thing happened to me in NJ but it was a public option. What is your point?

[billvon 2,470]

>What is your point?

If you don't get it, can't really explain it. Take whatever you like from it.

[brenthutch 388]

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>What is your point?

If you don't get it, can't really explain it. Take whatever you like from it.

Pick your cherries and build your strawmen.

[billvon 2,470]

>Pick your cherries and build your strawmen.

I have this image of you at a party.

"A guy walks into a bar and . . ."

"What kind of bar? I used to own a bar, Mr. Know-It-All. Is this one of those stupid anti-bartender comments? I'm waiting to see how this applies to anything anyone here was saying. Can you say 'strawman?' "

[justinb138 0]

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Ummmm... no sir. First, the post office is an independent civilian employed "quasi-governmental" agency. And second.... ummmm..... I don't think the mail man will have anything to do with my health care. I just laughed to myself and kept quiet because I know you can't argue with stupid.

You need to do some reading.

You can't argue with willfully ignorant either.

[justinb138 0]

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While it costs me $16 to mail a letter privately (say, via FedEx second day where I have to drop it off) the post office makes do on just $.44 to provide door-to-door service with no extras for more expensive customers like those living in rural areas (they'll even fly mail in by plane) and usually gets it there just as fast.

1. Ignoring the fact that the US government has made it illegal to compete with the USPS at sending regular mail, you're comparing FedEx 2Day to USPS mail? A more appropriate comparison might be Priority mail, which runs $5 or so, and it might get there in 2-5 days.

2. You can schedule a FedEx or UPS pickup.

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Going to the post office off peak hours doesn't involve any waiting. The last few times I've seen a medical professional off-peak hours it's been half an hour with a scheduled appointment, plus extras if I had to be sent down the hall for an X-ray.

And I've never had to wait in a UPS or FedEx store.

The USPS solution to people complaining about wait times? Remove the clocks.

Their response:

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"Well, they’ve been removed,” confirmed Stephen Seewoester, a Dallas spokesman for the Postal Service, which is an independent agency of the federal government’s executive branch. “We want people to focus on postal service and not the clock.”

Don't for get that mailing a letter only appears to cost $.44 - if you ignore the 7 billion dollar budget deficit.

[wildcard451 0]

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Going to the post office off peak hours doesn't involve any waiting. The last few times I've seen a medical professional off-peak hours it's been half an hour with a scheduled appointment, plus extras if I had to be sent down the hall for an X-ray.

Yeah, because those two things are precisely similar in thought required.

[brenthutch 388]

You are not far off of the mark. I used to work at a bar. One night the door opened and in came a priest, rabbi and a midget. I looked up and said "what is this, some kind of a joke"

[Andy9o8 0]

People stuck on airliners on the tarmac can be forced to wait for many, many hours in the plane, in awful conditions, without being allowed to get off and go back to the terminal. Any passenger who raises a fuss is subject to arrest and prosecution. We've all heard the horror stories. The decision whether or not to let them off the plane (the heartless answer is almost always "No") is made by the airlines, which are private companies. These are the guys we want running our health care?

On a bright note, the Obama administration - which is to say, the public sector - just issued a rule saying that an airline can't make you wait on the plane longer than 3 hours before allowing you to get off, and in the meantime, they must provide adequate food and lavatories to the passengers. (As if a Republican administration would ever have done that in a million years.) Of course, the airlines object to the rule.

So now we know who is for the ordinary guy and who is not. I want health care to be run by people who care about the ordinary guy.

[Bolas 5]

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People stuck on airliners on the tarmac can be forced to wait for many, many hours in the plane, in awful conditions, without being allowed to get off and go back to the terminal. Any passenger who raises a fuss is subject to arrest and prosecution. We've all heard the horror stories. The decision whether or not to let them off the plane (the heartless answer is almost always "No") is made by the airlines, which are private companies. These are the guys we want running our health care?

On a bright note, the Obama administration - which is to say, the public sector - just issued a rule saying that an airline can't make you wait on the plane longer than 3 hours before allowing you to get off, and in the meantime, they must provide adequate food and lavatories to the passengers. (As if a Republican administration would ever have done that in a million years.) Of course, the airlines object to the rule.

So now we know who is for the ordinary guy and who is not. I want health care to be run by people who care about the ordinary guy.

Air carriers aren't exactly privately or publicly owned businesses anymore.

Between the bailout money most are getting and being insanely overregulated, they don't really have alot of say as well as not much competition to provide better customer service.

People just need to stand up for themselves and then companies can't walk over you.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[Remster 24]

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insanely overregulated

Regulation in the airline industry has actually gone down in the last decades.

Remster

[kelpdiver 2]

The government agency typically promoted as the bogeyman for government run health care is the DMV. The IRS is another gem. Both are large outfits that most people deal with on an annual basis. They're probably more suitable examples than the post office, which provides a single service (parcel delivery) with a much lower cost footprint.

That said, even a brilliantly run organization would struggle with a total reorg in its operational design.

[rehmwa 2]

Oh good, another health care thread....

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[jtnesbitt 0]

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>Pick your cherries and build your strawmen.

I have this image of you at a party.

"A guy walks into a bar and . . ."

"What kind of bar? I used to own a bar, Mr. Know-It-All. Is this one of those stupid anti-bartender comments? I'm waiting to see how this applies to anything anyone here was saying. Can you say 'strawman?' "

Ahahaha, that pretty much sums up EVERYTHING in the SC. Thanks for the laugh Bill!

"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

[Ron 7]

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First, the post office is an independent civilian employed "quasi-governmental" agency.

There is a big difference between independent civilian and quasi-governmental.

Also the USPO is a legal monopoly. Try sending a UPS or FedEx package to a post office box or telling the driver to put it into your mailbox.

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The U.S. Supreme Court has also upheld the USPS's statutory monopoly on access to letterboxes against a First Amendment freedom of speech challenge; it thus remains illegal in the U.S. for anyone other than the employees and agents of the USPS to deliver mailpieces to letterboxes marked "U.S. Mail."

FedEx and United Parcel Service (UPS) directly compete with USPS express mail and package delivery services, making nationwide deliveries of urgent letters and packages. Due to the postal monopoly, they are not allowed to deliver non-urgent letters and may not use U.S. Mail boxes at residential and commercial destinations.

And you should read up on the Private Express Statutes (or PES) are a group of United States federal civil and criminal laws placing various restrictions on the carriage and delivery of letters by all organizations other than the United States Postal Service.

So for HC to be compared correctly, then you could ONLY get certain treatments (the most popular and common types) at Govt run centers, using Govt paid Dr's. And to get those same treatments somewhere else would be a federal crime.

Really.... quit trying to compare the USPO and UPS/FedEx to private and public HC..... It does not compare due to the legal monopoly the USPS has. (unless you want that same monopoly in HC)

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[kallend 1,677]

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People stuck on airliners on the tarmac can be forced to wait for many, many hours in the plane, in awful conditions, without being allowed to get off and go back to the terminal. Any passenger who raises a fuss is subject to arrest and prosecution. We've all heard the horror stories. The decision whether or not to let them off the plane (the heartless answer is almost always "No") is made by the airlines, which are private companies. These are the guys we want running our health care?

On a bright note, the Obama administration - which is to say, the public sector - just issued a rule saying that an airline can't make you wait on the plane longer than 3 hours before allowing you to get off, and in the meantime, they must provide adequate food and lavatories to the passengers. (As if a Republican administration would ever have done that in a million years.) Of course, the airlines object to the rule.

So now we know who is for the ordinary guy and who is not. I want health care to be run by people who care about the ordinary guy.

Air carriers aren't exactly privately or publicly owned businesses anymore.

Between the bailout money most are getting and being insanely overregulated, they don't really have alot of say as well as not much competition to provide better customer service.

When someone in the United baggage handling stream stole stuff from my gate-checked bag on the way back from the wingsuit big-way in November, the airline more or less told me to fuck off. Are these the kind of people we want running our health care?

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People just need to stand up for themselves and then companies can't walk over you.

Of course, when you are sick you are at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to 'standing up' for yourself.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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1. Ignoring the fact that the US government has made it illegal to compete with the USPS at sending regular mail,

Health care industry lobbyists have made it illegal to have a free market. You can't form groups just for buying insurance and have special tax advantages for plans sold through more efficient sales channels. Health insurance companies are exempt from anti-trust laws.

This sort of crap means that a one day hospital stay for surgery has a list price of $38,174 that Aetna pays $13,461 for.

If making the equivalent of non-urgent mail illegal for private practices can do what it does for the US postal system it'd be a great trade off.

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you're comparing FedEx 2Day to USPS mail?

The Post office seems to do a fine job delivering small electronics parts orders (8 ounces or less) from Digikeyin Minesota to California in 2 days with Saturday delivery.

Or next day from Campbell California. It's a valid comparison.

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Don't for get that mailing a letter only appears to cost $.44 - if you ignore the 7 billion dollar budget deficit.

According to the USPS, 203 billion pieces of mail were shipped in 2008.

7 billion is just 3.4 cents per piece.

So when the government does health care it can be 2.9% the private cost instead of 2.8%.

[jcd11235 0]

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Try sending a UPS or FedEx package to a post office box or telling the driver to put it into your mailbox.

Would you be okay with someone using your house without your permission? Post office boxes and mailboxes are property of USPS. Why should UPS or FedEx be allowed to use them?

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Bolas 5]

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Try sending a UPS or FedEx package to a post office box or telling the driver to put it into your mailbox.

Would you be okay with someone using your house without your permission? Post office boxes and mailboxes are property of USPS. Why should UPS or FedEx be allowed to use them?

Funny that. I had to pay for my own mailbox on my property.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[jcd11235 0]

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Funny that. I had to pay for my own mailbox on my property.

Despite that, it remains property of the USPS while in service as a mailbox.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!