My problems with God

[rynodigsmusic 0]

If I may Ron. I believe love is easy, its our weak faith that makes it hard. At least for me, I have to believe past my sin... and it seems everything is sin. The love is always there, just as sin is, but its the faith in grace that remains pure and genuine and guides me at least in the way I think I should go. This of course may just be an excuse, but I am filled with weakness and have to rely heavily on grace if I am to be with God eternally (as in every moment which exists.) Merry Christmas to you also brother.

"We didn't start the fire"

[Nightingale 0]

Quote

...

The Old Testament of the Bible is a record of the experience of mankind through the context of the Ancient World.
And the world at that time, was by our standards, a pretty fucking brutal, short-lived time. It was said that life at that time was "nasty, brutal, and short"

The harsh laws of the Israelites were par for the course back then. In fact many of the competing civilizations at that time also had human sacrifice, so the Israelites were at least above that. But at that time, PEACE was considered an interruption of WAR, and not the other way around....

After Jesus, a bar of morality was set. It was a bar that got continually violated, often by Christians themselves....

I see this argument made often by Christians, and I'm curious, since I frequently see the same Christians (not the original poster, just in general) condemning homosexuality, but not the other acts forbidden in the old testament. Is there anything in the new testament that speaks specifically towards homosexuality?

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Quote

Is there anything in the new testament that speaks specifically towards homosexuality?

It really only appears in Romans 1 (New Testament)

"In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion."

I used to think the due penalty was shame, but I dont believe that everyone feels shame for being gay, instead I think the penalty for perversion is lust... something that can never be satisfied unfortunately.

In my faith, the God I know will not abandon the homosexual anymore than he would abandon the heterosexual and I dont believe God abandons anyone who puts their hope in him. But lust is sin, and we all have lust (some more than others). Jesus said to a man he had healed (john 5:13) "See, you are well again. Stop sinning or something worse may happen to you"

Sin inspires rebellion and rebellion inspires bitterness towards God... this circle of sin and bitterness is a prison, just as Jesus says "anyone who sins is a slave to sin"

So to answer your question, the bible doesnt say that homosexuality is immoral, but it does warn against the flame of lust keeping us in a spiritual prison. I believe that being gay with lust is no more immoral than being straight with lust. That lust is lust and that gay people can love one another without lust. I know im long winded, but this isnt always easy to explain with few words.

"We didn't start the fire"

[skinnay 0]

Its actually pretty clear that the bible says its immoral.

[billvon 2,471]

>Its actually pretty clear that the bible says its immoral.

Old Testament, definitely. But it also gives instructions on how to sell your daughters into slavery, and says that wearing fabric blends is immoral. Best to take statements like that with a grain of salt.

[skinnay 0]

He quoted from the new testament:

Quote

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

Where exactly is it saying that its not immoral to be gay?

[karenmeal 0]

http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligence%20&%20religion.htm

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Quote

Where exactly is it saying that its not immoral to be gay?

Anyone who seeks the truth in Christ has to use discernment, especially in this age. My conscience is clear by saying, it is better to bring a homosexual to the love of God, than to renounce him, as he is just as sinful as you. The Old Testament was written that we might know what sin is so that the New Testament can flood us with grace... The immorality is not in the being gay as much as it is in the lustfulness associated with it. In any event, immorality has nothing to do with salvation as many believe it does. It used to, before Christ, but now salvation is through faith in the truth. If you are guilty of sin, repent with all your heart and ask God to reveal his grace in Jesus, then you will know the truth, and immorality, as the world debates will become more and more dwarfed by the saving power of grace. You are not going to get a straight answer for the question you ask. You might as well say that all those who are immoral will not have Christ... and that statement is completely wrong.

If you are gay, examine your thoughts, but remember that repentance will bring you the truth, and the truth is very powerful against even your own thoughts. Have nothing to do with the gay basher type, God is about understanding, revelation, and enlightenment. The world is about judgement, condemnation and hatred. But again, use your own discernment, you have a mind of your own.

"We didn't start the fire"

[champu 1]

Quote

http://kspark.kaist.ac.kr/Jesus/Intelligence%20&%20religion.htm

God created people whose cups runneth over with intelligence to be lacking in faith that they may be properly challenged in finding the light. Once doing so by way of their gracious gift, they shall act as his most proselytic servants, to help guide those with neither faith nor intelligence.

[RonD1120 58]

Quote

God created people whose cups runneth over with intelligence to be lacking in faith that they may be properly challenged in finding the light. Once doing so by way of their gracious gift, they shall act as his most proselytic servants, to help guide those with neither faith nor intelligence.

Today's devotion from Oswald Chambers is relevant for me in this instance.

Quote

December 3rd.

NOT BY MIGHT NOR BY POWER
"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power." 1 Corinthians 2:4

If in preaching the Gospel you substitute your clear knowledge of the way of salvation for confidence in the power of the Gospel, you hinder people getting to Reality. You have to see that while you proclaim your knowledge of the way of salvation, you yourself are rooted and grounded in faith in God. Never rely on the clearness of your exposition, but as you give your exposition see that you are relying on the Holy Spirit. Rely on the certainty of God's redemptive power, and He will create His own life in souls.

When once you are rooted in Reality, nothing can shake you. If your faith is in experiences, any thing that happens is likely to upset that faith; but nothing can ever upset God or the almighty Reality of Redemption; base your faith on that, and you are as eternally secure as God. When once you get into personal contact with Jesus Christ, you will never be moved again. That is the meaning of sanctification. God puts His disapproval on human experience when we begin to adhere to the conception that sanctification is merely an experience, and forget that sanctification itself has to be sanctified (see John 17:19). I have deliberately to give my sanctified life to God for His service, so that He can use me as His hands and His feet.

Regarding the emphasized paragraph above, I do not perform well in this forum.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jumpwally 0]

Where is it ? i gotta get that info,,,it'll rattle some feathers at the in-laws this holiday..

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[jumpwally 0]

Actually,,if everyone followed the 10 Commandments,,,would there even be a need for organized religion ???

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[Rstanley0312 0]

Quote

Quote

Look on the Driver's Handbook,

Difference is that the government expects people to read the Driver's Handbook. The Judeo-Christian leadership doesn't really want people reading the Bible. They want to quote it and hope you just listen to their interpretation. Anyone that actually reads it is going to have issues with it - a LOT of issues - and that act may shake the faith of the reader.

Ok we get it... many of you think Christians are dumb (check), God is not real (check), and think you are the only ones who are right on the matter (check) but this statement is just silly. I know of NO modern day church that does not tell you to read the Bible and if there is one out there still it is not mainstream at all. Support what you believe and argue what you want but don't make insane statements like this one.

Life is all about ass....either you're kicking it, kissing it, working it off, or trying to get a piece of it.
Muff Brother #4382 Dudeist Skydiver #000
www.fundraiseadventure.com

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Where is it ? i gotta get that info,,,it'll rattle some feathers at the in-laws this holiday..

Leviticus 25:44

King James version

Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

(Essentially, anybody who wasn't from Israel was a heathen)

So, if you are having any Canadians over, you get
to keep them.

[wolfriverjoe 1,368]

Quote

Where is it ? i gotta get that info,,,it'll rattle some feathers at the in-laws this holiday..

Early Old Testament.

The first five books are called the "Pentateuch".
Very nasty stuff.
Deuteronomy has lots of rules. Most of them invoke stoning to death as punishment.

My personal favorite is 21:18-21.
(paraphrased)If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen or obey, take him to the village elders, and have all the citizens stone him to death. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst, and all shall fear.

If your kid doesn't listen, you can kill him. It says so in the bible.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[champu 1]

Quote

Actually,,if everyone followed the 10 Commandments,,,would there even be a need for organized religion ???

Well, if everyone kept holy the Sabbath, held no other gods before Him, and refrained from misusing His name ... that... that would kinda constitute an "organized" practice that one might call a "religion."

[happythoughts 0]

Quote

Quote

Where is it ? i gotta get that info,,,it'll rattle some feathers at the in-laws this holiday..

Early Old Testament.

The first five books are called the "Pentateuch".
Very nasty stuff.
Deuteronomy has lots of rules. Most of them invoke stoning to death as punishment.

My personal favorite is 21:18-21.
(paraphrased)If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen or obey, take him to the village elders, and have all the citizens stone him to death. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst, and all shall fear.

If your kid doesn't listen, you can kill him. It says so in the bible.

What if the problem is that he is already stoned ?

"We are taking you to the village elders and you are
going to be stoned."
"Kewl."

[Belgian_Draft 0]

Maybe the bible was mistranslated and what was actually meant was to "take him to the elders to get stoned with the Dead"
I mean, The GD have been around longer than God.

HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.

[kallend 1,679]

Quote

Quote

Where is it ? i gotta get that info,,,it'll rattle some feathers at the in-laws this holiday..

Early Old Testament.

The first five books are called the "Pentateuch".
Very nasty stuff.
Deuteronomy has lots of rules. Most of them invoke stoning to death as punishment.

My personal favorite is 21:18-21.
(paraphrased)If a man has a stubborn and unruly son who will not listen or obey, take him to the village elders, and have all the citizens stone him to death. Thus shall you purge the evil from your midst, and all shall fear.

If your kid doesn't listen, you can kill him. It says so in the bible.

Won't be a whole lot of American teenagers left around.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[LyraM45 0]

Quote

It's all an idea used to deny the fact we're responsible for our own actions. The only reason Christianity is so prominent today is that the ones who implemented, changed it around, re interpreted it over and over to fit their plans had with them the "guns, germs, and steel" to do so. The bible as wee know it today was written by man, altered throughout time, and influenced by hundreds of cultures by men with their own political/financial agendas. They took the teachings of Jesus (who was not the son of God. That is very silly), who was just very liberal, wanted people to relax, chill out, be good to one another (values) and that threatened roman imperialistic ideas. They then took his teachings and ran with it, changed things in the Old Test. to match the NT and bam.... superstitious people had no choice but to fall into the trap while the people at the top laughed all the way to the bank. The creation myths, afterlife myths, miracles ALL evolved from pagan myth which in turn evolved from studying the sky and building stories around them. Devils, demons, angels, gods, creation.... all stems from pagan myth.

Remember, if there were truly one way THERE WOULD BE... there would not be over 150 totally different mainstream religions with their own myths, miracles, and birth-death-rebirth deities. Christianity alone has almost 34,000 different denominations/sects/reformations. Many the same but many very different. I like to tell people when they tell me that their way is the only right way that if they were born in India they would be Hindu, have multiple Gods, and believe in reincarnation.

VERY well said. Seriously....you took the words right out of my mouth for the most part.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[rynodigsmusic 0]

The old testament forged a radical zeal for God, just the one he grew to plant his seed. Without the zeal of the jews at that time, Christ would not have been crucified for herasy, and we would not have the truth of Gods grace.

"The stone the builders rejected has become the corner stone"

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

Quote

It's all an idea used to deny the fact we're responsible for our own actions. The only reason Christianity is so prominent today is that the ones who implemented, changed it around, re interpreted it over and over to fit their plans had with them the "guns, germs, and steel" to do so. The bible as...

So you obviously have a sincere faith that God is not real, but you have very little insight to what God is. I started to write so much in response to your post, but I understand that one can only believe what he is meant to believe. I hope you have the bluest skies.

"We didn't start the fire"

[billvon 2,471]

>Without the zeal of the jews at that time, Christ would not have been
>crucified for herasy, and we would not have the truth of Gods grace.

We would still have his words. I don't believe they would mean any less if he had not been crucified.

[beowulf 1]

Faith is not needed to believe god is not real. It's the lack of evidence that leads to this conclusion.

[georgerussia 0]

Quote

So you obviously have a sincere faith that God is not real,

This is not faith. This is common sense. X does not exist until someone proves the opposite.

Quote

but you have very little insight to what God is.

Neither have you. I bet you never even seen your God!

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *