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I voted "yes" but there are conditions.
Not all who are poor have the capability to overcome their poverty. Someone with severe physical and mental limitations is likely never going to become a millionaire.
However, I have seen many cases of dirt poor immigrants coming to the US and Canada, not knowing a single word of the language, and within a few years living in a middle class neighborhood and sending their kids to university, all from perseverance, hard work, and a goal.
So my answer is Yes, but not always.
Not all who are poor have the capability to overcome their poverty. Someone with severe physical and mental limitations is likely never going to become a millionaire.
However, I have seen many cases of dirt poor immigrants coming to the US and Canada, not knowing a single word of the language, and within a few years living in a middle class neighborhood and sending their kids to university, all from perseverance, hard work, and a goal.
So my answer is Yes, but not always.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
QuoteI voted "yes" but there are conditions.
Not all who are poor have the capability to overcome their poverty. Someone with severe physical and mental limitations is likely never going to become a millionaire.
However, I have seen many cases of dirt poor immigrants coming to the US and Canada, not knowing a single word of the language, and within a few years living in a middle class neighborhood and sending their kids to university, all from perseverance, hard work, and a goal.
So my answer is Yes, but not always.
Sure, those with disabilities beyond their control are the exception, and should not be included when voting in the poll.
However some, especially those with physical limitations, would be offended by your comment.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
QuoteDo things to KEEP THEMSELVES poor?!
Some perspective.
"Doing" by "not doing". Is the same thing, ending in the same result = staying poor.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
QuoteQuoteDo things to KEEP THEMSELVES poor?!
Some perspective.
"Doing" by "not doing". Is the same thing, ending in the same result = staying poor.
I don't think anyone who hasn't experienced what it's like to be poor - should be making any kind of blanket assumptions.
And don't try to tell me "you" were poor and "did something about it". I suspect most people who came from extreme poverty and had the courage, the conviction, the strength to lift themselves out of poverty would have more grace and compassion than to sit and judge "poor people" like they're lazy or stupid.
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
TomAiello 25
Wow.
So, if someone's views don't conform to your stereotype of what they ought to be, then they can't be genuine?
Now there's some serious closemindedness.
So, if someone's views don't conform to your stereotype of what they ought to be, then they can't be genuine?
Now there's some serious closemindedness.
QuoteQuoteQuoteDo things to KEEP THEMSELVES poor?!
Some perspective.
"Doing" by "not doing". Is the same thing, ending in the same result = staying poor.
I don't think anyone who hasn't experienced what it's like to be poor - should be making any kind of blanket assumptions.
And don't try to tell me "you" were poor and "did something about it". I suspect most people who came from extreme poverty and had the courage, the conviction, the strength to lift themselves out of poverty would have more grace and compassion than to sit and judge "poor people" like they're lazy or stupid.
Please refer to my post on page 1.
Anyone can take action to get themselves out of poverty if they so choose. McDonald's and Walmart will hire just about anybody, so work 2 jobs at both to get out of a rut and work your way up. Buy a $500 car and, get an education, eventually get a better job.
Your statement basically says, 'your poor and you can't do anything about it.'
If you try and fail, try again...
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----
QuoteWow.
So, if someone's views don't conform to your stereotype of what they ought to be, then they can't be genuine?
Now there's some serious closemindedness.
Oh yeah - that's me. Closed-minded.
Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
rushmc 18
QuoteQuote
Very good final paragraph in this post. So, why do you support the HC bill which will remove choice?
Because there is a lot of people around who are incapable of making a right choice - for example, they think paying for a cell phone or skydiving should have greater priority than paying their health insurance premiums. And once they are being hit by their bad choices, it's the rest of us who are paying for that.
It is actually very similar to auto liability insurance - if the law was not there requiring everyone to have it (and providing stiff penalties for those who do not), you can bet a lot of people would find a premium cable TV or new iPhone is more important than liability insurance. That's why the law is needed. Of course it would be much better if everyone was responsible, but this is not the case anywhere around the world.
Your true colors float with the turds to the surface here my friend.
Because people do not make "correct" choices, you and a government you agree with MUST be empowered to force them to make the "right" choices"?
What my friend do you do if YOU DON'T agree with those forced choices? Huh?
What about all those who can buy smokes yet have to go get food stamps cause they can't feed themselves? How about those who do pot and drugs and do the same? Eat too much and have higher health costs?
Don't like the car you drive or the house you live in. Extremes? You bet but where do you stop?
This is not about control, NOT about HC. And you must feel good about controlling that with which you do not agree. AND using laws to do it
![[:/]](/uploads/emoticons/dry.png "[:/]"){kind=small}
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
rushmc 18
QuoteQuoteWow.
So, if someone's views don't conform to your stereotype of what they ought to be, then they can't be genuine?
Now there's some serious closemindedness.
Oh yeah - that's me. Closed-minded.
Must have been hard for you to see it
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
QuoteQuoteI voted "yes" but there are conditions.
Not all who are poor have the capability to overcome their poverty. Someone with severe physical and mental limitations is likely never going to become a millionaire.
However, I have seen many cases of dirt poor immigrants coming to the US and Canada, not knowing a single word of the language, and within a few years living in a middle class neighborhood and sending their kids to university, all from perseverance, hard work, and a goal.
So my answer is Yes, but not always.
Sure, those with disabilities beyond their control are the exception, and should not be included when voting in the poll.
However some, especially those with physical limitations, would be offended by your comment.
If I had said that people with severe physical or mental limitations would likely never become wealthy I would agree with you.
But I didn't.
I specifically said physical and mental. I know many physically handicapped wealthy people and several menatlly handicapped wealthy people, but I only know one who is both and he inherited his money.
I also said it would be unlikely, not impossible.
HAMMER:
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
Originally employed as a weapon of war, the hammer nowadays is used as a
kind of divining rod to locate the most expensive parts adjacent the
object we are trying to hit.
Quote
Your true colors float with the turds to the surface here my friend.
Because people do not make "correct" choices, you and a government you agree with MUST be empowered to force them to make the "right" choices"?
Generally the people should be able to make the choice as long as they do not place any extra burden on others because of the choices they made.
If someone decides not to have health insurance, and then gets sick and goes to ER, right now they would get the treatment and may not pay for it. This places unfair burden on other people, and therefore such a choice must be restricted in such a way so it does not place burden on others.
Quote
What my friend do you do if YOU DON'T agree with those forced choices? Huh?
I write my Congresswoman/Senator about it. In fact I'm communicating with their office pretty often. I'm asking questions, and a few times even getting personal answers from the staff. What I do not do is watching Fox News.
Quote
What about all those who can buy smokes yet have to go get food stamps cause they can't feed themselves? How about those who do pot and drugs and do the same? Eat too much and have higher health costs?
It depends on a lot of factors. How much "eat too much" contributes to overall healthcare costs? I've seen different opinions about it - and some even argue that overall costs are less, because fat people live shorter lives, and tend to die from less expensive things like cardiac arrest instead of bone cancer. However realistically thinking I guess it's unlikely such thing would ever be discussed on the government level, as it is something "politically incorrect". Pretty much as AIDS infection rates depending on race (and AIDS treatment is very expensive).
Quote
Don't like the car you drive or the house you live in. Extremes? You bet but where do you stop?
If you pay for my car or my gas, then sure you can choose what car I drive. If you pay my rent, you definitely choose what I can or cannot rent. Happens all the time - for example when I go for a business trip, we have very strict guidelines about it. The key again is the same - are YOU paying for your choice, or you expect someone else to pay for it?
Quote
This is not about control, NOT about HC. And you must feel good about controlling that with which you do not agree. AND using laws to do it
I lived two years in pretty much anarchy state. Trust me, you do not want it. You might go to Somali to get a taste though. Grab your guns.
* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *
Quote
Oh yeah - that's me. Closed-minded.
Must have been hard for you to see it
A sarcastic attempt at empathy?
But where are the
?Action expresses priority. - Mahatma Ghandi
normiss 622
Those that have paid medical insurance their entire adult life only to have a catastrophic medical event, insurance didn't cover or "preexisting condition", or the coverage was insufficient, and are now broke for life?
Have a clue what your insurance would pay out if you were to become a quad after pounding in?
YOU'D BE FUCKED!
But of course you would totally succeed financially....
QuoteI disagree.
Some people have fewer obstacles to over come then others. Anyone can pull themselves out of poverty if they have the drive to do so along with the ability to see opportunities and take advantage of them. Many do not have that ability or the intelligence to see the opportunities and act on them.
Society doesn't limit them, they limit themselves.
This is complete garbage. Meritocracy doesn't work in terms of social mobility.
Society doesn't limit them, they limit themselves.
I know I'm a bit late to this conversation but I think this statement summed it up perfectly.
From what I've seen the issue is two-fold. First from what I have personally seen there are a large number of lower income earners who do not want to put in the effort to work their way out of the position they are in. There are of course also quite a fewpeople who work themselves to death trying to scrape by and I personally haven't seen any statistics that show which group is the majority. The even bigger issue though is that typically people in this demographic refuse to live the ife that they can afford. Everyone wants all the nice shiny things that they see everyone else having so they pass up the things they need or the opportunity to use that money to better their position because they want the nice shiny toys. Think about how many times you've been in a low-income neighborhood and seen people driving around with cars that they shouldn't be able to afford, talking on new expensive cell phones and wearing new designer clothes. A large number of these people do it to themselves and I have zero sympathy for them. The problem is they make the people willing to work hard look bad and it is hard to differentiate between the two.
History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid.
--Dwight D. Eisenhower
--Dwight D. Eisenhower
Skyrad 0
QuoteI was Just curious what people thought about the old adage about "Poor people do things to keep themselves poor"
Being poor is a state of mind, being broke is a fiscal situation.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
billeisele 122
interesting seeing "poor" folks with a cig hanging from their mouth, beer in hand, gold jewelry, buying name brand products with food stamps, and a flashy ride complaining about they can't afford food, medical insurance, etc.
Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.
wmw999 2,123
The crux of the matter is that in the US, by and large, life is harder if you're poor than if you're middle class or rich. You have to work harder to get to middle class if you're poor than if you're already middle class.
How many of us would be willing to work hard enough not to be poor. I mean the grinding kind of poor, where you don't even know how to go about being better off, where the idea of rich means being able to afford a car and a gold chain?
How many of us are willing to work hard enough to be rich? Or are we OK with where we are?
It's easy to talk about "the poor." Let's talk instead about "people."
Wendy P.
How many of us would be willing to work hard enough not to be poor. I mean the grinding kind of poor, where you don't even know how to go about being better off, where the idea of rich means being able to afford a car and a gold chain?
How many of us are willing to work hard enough to be rich? Or are we OK with where we are?
It's easy to talk about "the poor." Let's talk instead about "people."
Wendy P.
There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)
rushmc 18
QuoteQuote
Oh yeah - that's me. Closed-minded.
Must have been hard for you to see it
A sarcastic attempt at empathy?
But where are the
? Yet another lame attempt !
Didnt need em,... .... ... ... ... until now!
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
kbordson 8
QuoteIt's easy to talk about "the poor." Let's talk instead about "people."
Wendy P.
OK, let's.
Me - upper middle class, maybe lower upper class. I have an education. I have savings, I have stocks, I have investments.
Sister one - "poor." She lives at my moms house with her husband and her three year old (amazingly darling and wonderful) daughter. She was National Honor Society in high school, dropped out of college and was a carny for almost a decade. (yup... a carny - which is a GREAT story to have... but doesn't put much in the bank.)
Sister two - maybe not "poor" but definitely doing things to bring herself down. She's trying HARD, working way too much at her two jobs just to make ends meet in a condo that she couldn't really afford. Just not understanding HOW she can help herself and refusing to listen to advice on how to be SMARTER with her finances. Example, last December, the dentist recommended that her son have a root canal... but she doesn't have the money for her portion of that procedure... because she's saving up to buy season tickets for the Brewers.
All three of us had the same beginnings: same parents, same influence on education, same lower middle class upbringing..... but CHOICES divide us.
Now, I will grant that some do have choices crossed off by others or by situations. But, generally, if someone truly tries hard to get an education and to improve and save and not give into "I want" and "Gimme now"... That desire is usually rewarded.
rehmwa 2
QuoteYes, this is right. For example, look on two brothers, both getting $100. One would spend it on books and education, one would spend it on booze and weed. Who has a better chance to success?
It depends, does brother 2 use the booze and weed? Or turn around and sell it at a profit and then purchase other commodities with a for-profit mission - eventually opening a huge import-export business and ending up on the Board of Directors at several Fortune 100 companies.......
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
TomAiello 25
I'll admit I had to use google to find out what a 'carny' was.
Because there is a lot of people around who are incapable of making a right choice - for example, they think paying for a cell phone or skydiving should have greater priority than paying their health insurance premiums. And once they are being hit by their bad choices, it's the rest of us who are paying for that.
It is actually very similar to auto liability insurance - if the law was not there requiring everyone to have it (and providing stiff penalties for those who do not), you can bet a lot of people would find a premium cable TV or new iPhone is more important than liability insurance. That's why the law is needed. Of course it would be much better if everyone was responsible, but this is not the case anywhere around the world.
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