Should the Pledge of Allegiance be said in school?

[SpeedRacer 1]

When I was little we would say the pledge of allegiance in home-room in the morning. Just wondering if people still think it's a good idea.

Speed Racer
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[Andrewwhyte 1]

It should but teachers should be under public written instructions not to coerce participation.

[downwardspiral 0]

I think, like the Star Spangled Banner, it should be taught but requiring a moment every morning to say the pledge is a complete waste of time.

www.FourWheelerHB.com

[headoverheels 291]

I said yes/liberal, but I really think that the original or 2nd wording should be used, not that which came in in the 50's (IIRC).

[SpeedRacer 1]

one conservative blogger has this to say:

http://www.gopmike.com/2009/01/gop-mikes-educational-series-pledge-of.html

Speed Racer
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[livendive 8]

I'm not sure. Not so long as it includes the religous provision, but I'd be interested to hear arguments either way if those two words were returned to their rightful place.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[tkhayes 128]

only if they take out the 'under God' part. Otherwise it violates the church and state separations.

[SpeedRacer 1]

I was just wondering because the Pledge, and the idea of having school children say it, was a socialist's invention. But Conservatives like the idea of having our children say the Pledge of Allegiance (and many of them really want the "under God" part to be in there to). Read the blog post above where the guy talks about how immigrants should be good Americans & say the pledge, or get the hell out.

And yet many of these same Conservatives don't want President Obama to give one speech in front of their kids for fear of "indoctrination."

Speed Racer
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[kallend 1,633]

Take out the "God" bit and it's just fine. Rather pointless (no-one ever became a patriot by rote recitation of anything every morning), but harmless.

I'd prefer to remind people of the Constitution on a regular basis.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

Yes/unaffiliated. What's wrong with national pride? We're not talking about socialism with missle parades and daily mandantory radio announcements. We're talking about instilling a sense of pride for one's country, a pledge. The Pledge of Allegiance, imo, is not about political parties or one's opinion of the government.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Yes/unaffiliated. What's wrong with national pride? We're not talking about socialism with missle parades and daily mandantory radio announcements. We're talking about instilling a sense of pride for one's country, a pledge. The Pledge of Allegiance, imo, is not about political parties or one's opinion of the government.

right, so if there is nothing frightening about requiring school children to daily claim their fealty to the USA, why is it so frightening that those children should be allowed to hear a speech from the American President?

Speed Racer
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[shropshire 0]

Repeating a bunch of words over and over does not generate or even reflect pride.

Speaking your Pledge of Allegence no more makes you a good American than repeating your marrige vows makes you a good spouse.

Repeating text by rote achieves nothing ..... talking about the meaning(s) behind those words would achive far more.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[quade 3]

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right, so if there is nothing frightening about requiring school children to daily claim their fealty to the USA, why is it so frightening that those children should be allowed to hear a speech from the American President?

Because them's evil words is comin' from Satan hisself!

He's gonna hypnotise them younguns with his voodoo witchcraft and turn them all into socialist-liberal-commie-homosexual-gun-grabbin'-Nazi-zombies on welfare . . . lookin' for health care.

That's what he's plannin' . . . I'll bet cha.

Forget these kids live with me 365 days a year and parental influence has a bigger effect on a person's education that anything, one listen, one look at that President guy is dangerous I tells ya! DANGEROUS! We gotta take our kids outta school so they never hear about stayin' in school. We needs to educate them on not getting an education! Drop out so they can be like Bill Gates! He dropped out of school and he turned out aight. Sure, he's a statistical anomaly, but screw that! We don't need our kids learning about stuff like statistical anomalies. Them's just fancy words for smart people!

This guy wants to indoctrinate our kids! I won't be any part of that and that's the last word.

Now, if you'll excuse me . . . Glenn Beck is about to come on. I always like to hear what he has to say after Rush Limbaugh.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

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right, so if there is nothing frightening about requiring school children to daily claim their fealty to the USA, why is it so frightening that those children should be allowed to hear a speech from the American President?

You replied to my post and asked about the president's speech as if I disagreed with it. I don't disagree with it. What's your point?

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

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Repeating a bunch of words over and over does not generate or even reflect pride.

True, however, the point of citing the POA is not to make uber-patriots out of kids, it's to lay a basic foundation for having pride in one's country. Note where I said basic, when they get older they will start to do their own thing, and that's fine. What's wrong with that? We all have reasons to be pissed off at policies, presidents, laws, current/former governments, politicians, etc... but let's not let that interfere with teaching our youth the foundations.

[Andy9o8 0]

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It should but teachers should be under public written instructions not to coerce participation.

It's a similar point to whether or not to have a "moment of silence" in school: The very act of everyone else doing it, especially among juveniles, is, in itself, socially coercive, in that it impliedly threatens ostracization to those who might wish to opt-out.

[SpeedRacer 1]

You replied to my post and asked about the president's speech as if I disagreed with it. I don't disagree with it. What's your point?

[DJL 232]

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I said yes/liberal, but I really think that the original or 2nd wording should be used, not that which came in in the 50's (IIRC).

I agree. My only problem with this is that it turns into a God issue when said in its current form.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[PLFXpert 0]

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Take out the "God" bit and it's just fine. Rather pointless (no-one ever became a patriot by rote recitation of anything every morning), but harmless.

I'd prefer to remind people of the Constitution on a regular basis.

While I tend to agree, I might object to actually removing the word "God". Most people believe in some sort of God--even if that God is Jimmy Hendrix.

To play devil's advocate, it might not be so pointless to repeat. While no-one may have ever became a patriot by "rote recitation", children learn best by repetition. It is embarrassing the basic fundamentals many of adults born in the USA do not know, but I would be surprised if any of them did not know the Pledge of Allegiance as most of us_did_have to repeat it daily.

I entered school in the mid-80s. We always said the pledge and listened to--and were welcomed to sing along with--a song (Neil Diamond's "They're Coming to America", Greenwood's "God Bless the USA", Seals' and Osmond's "Meet me in Montana", Springsteen's "Born in the U.S.A., and the usual "America the Beautiful", "Star-Spangled Banner", and "My Country 'Tis of Thee" to name a few.)

I do not think that few minutes each morning was pointless or a waste of time. It was a few minutes to think about my country and be thankful to be an American.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[ryoder 1,390]

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I entered school in the mid-80s. We always said the pledge and listened to--and were welcomed to sing along with--a song (Neil Diamond's "They're Coming to America", Greenwood's "God Bless the USA", Seals' and Osmond's "Meet me in Montana", Springsteen's "Born in the U.S.A., and the usual "America the Beautiful", "Star-Spangled Banner", and "My Country 'Tis of Thee" to name a few.)
.

Have you ever read the lyrics to "Born In The U. S. A."???

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[skybill 19]

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When I was little we would say the pledge of allegiance in home-room in the morning. Just wondering if people still think it's a good idea.

Hi Speedie,
It's really a sad state of affairs in this country if ya' really just have to ask that question. After Barry gets done with this place and it becomes "Obamaland" what the hell are we going to say?? As for our "current Pledge (the one with "under God" in it), My answer is "Say it" "Everybody Say it" and "SAY IT LOUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Got that??/

SCR-2034, SCS-680

III%,
Deli-out

[quade 3]

Ok, and now for some crap you didn't know.

The guy that wrote the Pledge, Francis Bellamy, was a Christian Socialist. He wrote it as part of a scheme by The Youth's Companion magazine in an effort to sell flags promoting the 400th anniversary of Columbus "discovering" America.

HERE is how Bellamy intended the flag to be saluted and is how it was done prior to WWII.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

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Ok, and now for some crap you didn't know.

I never new that, thanks for sharing. Definately seems odd, the whole "Hail Hitler" thing and all. But just to clear a few things up and for the sake of a good debate....

I can't help but get the idea that you are insinuating that Bellamy intended the salute to mock the "Hail Hitler" salute.

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It was first demonstrated on October 12, 1892 according to Bellamy's published instructions for the "National School Celebration of Columbus Day":

Although Bellamy was not the first to use the salute, the Romans get that credit, he did not get the idea from the Nazis.

I broke it into paragraphs to make it easier to read

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In the 1920s, Italian fascists adopted the Roman salute to symbolise their claim to have revitalised Italy on the model of ancient Rome. This was quickly copied by the German Nazis, creating the Nazi salute. The similarity to the bellamy salute led to confusion, especially during World War II.

From 1939 until the attack on Pearl Harbor, detractors of Americans who argued against intervention in World War II produced propaganda using the salute to lessen those Americans' reputations. Among the anti-interventionist Americans was aviation pioneer Charles Lindbergh. Supporters of Lindbergh's views would claim that Lindbergh did not support Adolf Hitler, and that pictures of him appearing to do the Nazi salute were actually pictures of him using the Bellamy salute.

In his Pulitzer prize winning biography Lindbergh, author A. Scott Berg explains that interventionist propagandists would photograph Lindbergh and other isolationists using this salute from an angle that left out the American flag, so it would be indistinguishable from the Hitler salute to observers.

source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

[quade 3]

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I can't help but get the idea that you are insinuating that Bellamy intended the salute to mock the "Hail Hitler" salute.

Nope. Just pointing out the "weirdness".

I'm not a smart man, but I do know that 1892 comes a few days before 1933.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[PLFXpert 0]

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Have you ever read the lyrics to "Born In The U. S. A."???

I just did. Interesting. I might feel pretty silly if I were a Springsteen fan, had actually ever listened to the song, or were not three years old when it came out.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.