Does Obama have a fucking clue?

[rushmc 18]

He condems the Honduran troops as doing something illegal when in fact the troops were in full support of that countries constitution. The ass the troops threw out was trying to make himself electable for life when his term limits were up. Obama has yet again aligned himself with dictators and tyrants and shows he dont know much about other countries.

What a fucking joke he looks like....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/30/AR2009063001601_pf.html

And this biased piece of shit "newspaper" support him.



New Honduran President Warns Former Leader of Arrest

By William Booth and Juan Forero
Washington Post Foreign Service
Tuesday, June 30, 2009 11:55 AM



TEGUCIGALPA, Honduras, June 30 -- The newly appointed president of Honduras, Roberto Micheletti, is warning that if ousted president Manuel Zelaya attempts to return here, he will be immediately arrested and sent to prison.

"If he comes back to our country, he would have to face our tribunals and our trials and our laws," Micheletti said in an interview with The Washington Post late Monday night at his residence in the hills overlooking the capital. "He would be sent to jail. For sure, he would go to prison."

Micheletti was named the new president of Honduras by the National Congress on Sunday, hours after soldiers burst into the presidential palace, detained Zelaya while he was still in his pajamas and then put him on a plane to Costa Rica.

The new Honduran president said he did not see any way to negotiate with the Obama administration and international diplomats seeking a return of Zelaya to power because Micheletti insisted that Zelaya was guilty of crimes against the country.

"No, no compromise, because if he tries to come back or anyone tries to bring him back, he will be arrested," Micheletti said.

The streets of Tegucigalpa were empty Monday night because of a curfew, but the city is awash in rumors that Venezuela is marshaling its forces for a possible invasion. Micheletti was meeting with Honduran congressional leaders and others at his house, as soldiers stood guard outside.

Micheletti cautioned the world that his army was on alert and prepared to defend the country against any invasion.

"Our army also consists of 7.5 million people prepared to defend freedom and liberty," said Micheletti, who stressed that Hondurans were a peaceful people.

Media outlets friendly to Zelaya have been shut down, and some reporters are hiding -- as are members of Zelaya's former cabinet. Most Hondurans must rely on state media or on newspapers and television stations that support the coup. Cable news outlets such as CNN en Español have been blacked out, but it is still possible to get outside news via satellite.

Although the United States condemned the coup, the most vocal statements of opposition -- along with threats of military intervention -- have come from Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, who led a summit of leftist allies in Nicaragua on Monday that demanded Zelaya's reinstatement.

"We are saying to the coup organizers, we are ready to support a rebellion of the people of Honduras," Chávez said. "This coup will be defeated."

Micheletti said, "We have fears because of Mr. Chávez. We don't know what to expect of him."

Micheletti and others in his new government say that Zelaya was acting as a strongman who was surrounding himself with leftist allies of Chavez, including the Castro brothers in Cuba and President Daniel Ortega of Nicaragua.

Leaders around the hemisphere, including President Obama, quickly condemned the removal of Zelaya and called it a coup. But Honduran leaders insist that the world does not understand what happened here. They say that Zelaya was found guilty by a Supreme Court tribunal, that his arrest by the military was legal and that Zelaya was attempting to circumvent the Congress and the courts by staging a referendum vote on Sunday. The referendum, they say, could have led to a change in the constitution that would have allowed Zelaya to run for the top office again after his term ended in January 2010.

Micheletti said he was sending a delegation Tuesday to the United States to make the case against Zelaya and for the new government.

The new president said he thought his country could hold out long enough for world opinion to turn its way. Venezuela has already said it would suspend oil shipments, and Honduras's neighbors -- El Salvador, Guatemala and Nicaragua -- announced that they would stop overland trade.

"That is why I want to make a call to our allies in the United States, that they should stick with us at this very important moment in the life of the country," Micheletti said. "The economy of our country is completely destroyed -- because of the acts of the former government. If aid [from the United States and Europe] keeps coming, we will show that every little penny that we borrowed will be spent for the people of this country."

Micheletti promised that Honduras would hold presidential elections in November and that a new president would take office in January 2010. Micheletti, a leader of the Liberal Party, which is also the party of Zelaya, vowed that he would not run for president.

After Zelaya was hustled out of the country to exile in Costa Rica, the leaders of his ouster produced a letter of resignation purportedly signed by Zelaya. It conceded that he had triggered a national crisis by his actions, that his political base had eroded, that he faced insurmountable health problems and that with his irrevocable resignation he hoped to help heal the wounds of the nation.

Zelaya called the letter a fabrication.

Micheletti said he signed it.

Micheletti also said that Zelaya, who had been his political ally for years in the Liberal Party, was a master at bending world opinion his way. Another source in the government here said that Zelaya actually was wearing a crisply ironed dress shirt when he was sent into exile in Costa Rica, but that he changed to a white T-shirt to show how he was hustled out of his official residence at dawn while still in his pajamas.

Senior Obama officials said an overthrow of the Zelaya government had been brewing for days -- and they worked behind the scenes to stop the military and its conservative, wealthy backers from pushing Zelaya out. The U.S. failure to stop the coup gave antagonists such as Chávez room to use events in Honduras to push his own vision for the region.

The coup appears to have been well organized. Sunday morning, as Zelaya was being ousted, local television and radio stations went off the air. Cellphone and land-line communications were jammed, and many numbers offered nothing more than a busy signal.

Zelaya, speaking to reporters in Managua, demanded that he be restored to power but said that violence was not an option.

He also said that many Hondurans had no idea about the worldwide condemnation of the coup because private television stations in his country blacked out coverage, playing cartoons and soap operas.

By early Monday night, another meeting of Latin American nations had begun in Managua, with such participants as Mexico and the secretary general of the Organization of American States, José Miguel Insulza, criticizing Zelaya's opponents.

Across the Americas and Europe, leaders called for Zelaya's reinstatement. Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, president of Brazil, said his government would not recognize a Honduran administration not headed by Zelaya.

"We in Latin America can no longer accept someone trying to resolve his problem through the means of a coup," Lula said.

The United Nations also condemned the coup and said Micheletti should make way for Zelaya's return. Zelaya was invited to address the U.N. General Assembly on Tuesday.

The ouster in the poor, agricultural country of 7 million people revived memories of coup-driven turmoil in Latin America. Zelaya, who has spoken frequently with reporters, has been quick to mention the political chaos that military overthrows have traditionally caused.

"Are we going to go back to the military being outside of the control of the civil state?" Zelaya asked. "Everything that is supposed to be an achievement of the 21st century is at risk in Honduras."


Make sure you read to page two. Sound like another country down south?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0629/p06s01-woam.html

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Another perspective.....
From Fox and AP...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/06/30/obamas-support-ousted-honduran-leader-accused-breaking-law-stirs-concerns/?test=latestnews

Support for Ousted Honduran President Raises Questions About 'Democratic' Leadership


Honduran President Manuel Zelaya, who is backed by U.S. nemesis Hugo Chavez,was overthrown in a military coup Sunday after the Honduran Congress and Supreme Court said he maneuvered illegally to amend the constitution -- apparently in hopes of extending his rule.

The U.N. General Assembly's decision to condemn the military coup in Honduras and demand the return to power of President Manuel Zelaya has created a rare incidence of near universal support for a man who has defied his nation's constitution and Congress.

But while Zelaya wins widespread support, including from President Obama as well as Venezuela's Hugo Chavez, critics in the United States are asking why the U.S. leader doesn't take a stand against clearly illegal actions by Honduras' ousted chief executive.

"Manuel Zelaya trampled the Honduran constitution by pushing for his illegal referendum to allow him to rule indefinitely, and by firing the top military official, Gen. Romeo Vasquez Velasquez, when he refused to comply with Zelaya's unconstitutional orders," said Rep. Connie Mack, R-Fla.

Zelaya, the ousted leftist leader, ignored a ruling from the Honduran Supreme Court, warnings from the military and opposition by a sizable swath of his country's population when he maneuvered to amend his country's constitution, apparently in hopes of extending his own rule


Many sectors of Honduran society now support the ascension of congressional leader Roberto Micheletti, who was sworn in as president after the military stormed the presidential compound and whisked Zelaya to Costa Rica. Elections are scheduled to be held in November.

But Zelaya, who was elected by popular vote in 2005, was bolstered by international support when the 192-nation General Assembly voted by acclamation Tuesday to condemn the military's arrest of the president.


Thomas Shannon, the top U.S. diplomat for the Americas, planned to meet with Zelaya on Tuesday after the Honduran leader traveled to Washington for a special gathering of the General Assembly of the Organization of American States.

Zelaya has said he will return home this week to regain control. The government run by Micheletti says he can come back -- but only as a common citizen.

Many voices in the Western Hemisphere and beyond have condemned the military coup, which has sparked clashes in the Honduran capital that have left dozens of people injured.

"We believe that the coup was not legal and that President Zelaya remains the democratically elected president there," President Obama said in Washington on Monday. "It would be a terrible precedent if we start moving backwards into the era in which we are seeing military coups as a means of political transition rather than democratic elections."

While Obama has won backing by some lawmakers, like Rep. Eliot Engel, D-N.Y., chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere, Mack and others say Zelaya has led a tumultuous three years in power -- topped with an illegal "power grab."

"There is little doubt that Zelaya, in his blatant power grab, has moved Honduras down a dangerous path toward less freedom, less security, and less prosperity. ... The United States and our allies in the region must now stand with the Honduran people to ensure the respect of freedom, the rule of law and democracy," Mack said.

Central America analysts say Obama had no choice but to condemn Zelaya's ouster.

"If you watch what happens, regardless of your take of what is happening, you're going to come to the conclusion that it was wrong," Michael Lisman of the Inter-American Dialogue, said of the coup. "But, it's a complicated situation. Something had to be done. What (else could be) done remains to be seen."

Peter DeShazo, director of the Americas Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said the military takeover of a democratically elected administration sets a "very dangerous precedent," one that awakens dormant memories of past military power.

Coups were common in Central America until the 1980s, but Sunday's ouster was the first military power grab in Latin America since a brief, failed 2002 coup against Chavez. That failed effort won early moral support by the Bush administration.

Sunday's coup was the first military ouster of a Central American president since 1993, when Guatemalan military officials refused to accept President Jorge Serrano's attempt to seize absolute power and removed him. They turned over power to a civilian within days.

Honduras had not seen a coup since 1978, when one military government overthrew another.

DeShazo said Zelaya's actions may have been unconstitutional, "but there are constitutional means for resolving these kinds of issues. That's what should be the process."

He added that "the United States really would be totally out of sync with its neighbors if it didn't come out and express concern about what happened in Honduras."

But Americans for Limited Government, which supports citizen democracy, noted that Obama "abetted the Zelaya power grab through his calculated silence" while at the same time he has been deafeningly silent about Iran, where the Islamic regime violently cracked down on protesters demonstrating against what they claim were rigged elections earlier this month. Obama has voiced support for protesters' rights but refuses to make specific demands on Iran's hard-line leaders.

Analysts who spoke with FOXNews.com said Obama's different responses are justified by the characteristics of each case.

"On the one hand, Iran is a lot more complicated, fraught with issues that I think affect a lot more sensibilities in our political culture," Lisman said. "It's not easy to talk about Honduras, but in this case, it's a political no-brainer to support democracy. Iran is anything but a no-brainer."

Complicating the drama in Honduras is the support Zelaya has gotten from Chavez, who has urged rebellion by the Honduran people.

Chavez has vowed to halt shipments of subsidized oil to Honduras, though the country gets most of its oil from other sources, and has said he will "do everything possible to overthrow this guerrilla government of Honduras.

"It must be overthrown," the socialist president said. "The rebellion in Honduras must be supported."

DeShazo said Chavez's support for Zelaya "is not of concern to the United States." What is of concern, he said, is that "mainstream" support in the region believes the military coup is "harmful to democracy in the region."

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

Yes Rush, you're right, he should fully support a military coup. I mean, geebus, you'd have to be a complete fucking moron not to recognize what was going on down there. I can't believe he's not siding with it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[headoverheels 292]

From what I see, the Pres was acting illegally, in violation of their constitution. He certainly needed reining in, and failing that, legal ousting.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Yes Rush, you're right, he should fully support a military coup. I mean, geebus, you'd have to be a complete fucking moron not to recognize what was going on down there. I can't believe he's not siding with it.

I do see your point but, our view can be in the prism of how things work here. Much different there.

But, I guess supporting dictators is what Obama is doing. So why not continue...

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[labrys 0]

Quote

"Our army also consists of 7.5 million people prepared to defend freedom and liberty," said Micheletti, who stressed that Hondurans were a peaceful people.

Umm.... since Honduras has a population of about 7.5 million I'm going to call bullshit on that stat.

Owned by Remi #?

[rushmc 18]

Quote

From what I see, the Pres was acting illegally, in violation of their constitution. He certainly needed reining in, and failing that, legal ousting.

In our world a coup is not the way to go. Legal is different down there. I have to admit I am surprised a military to support the constittution of a country down there.

Obams missed the boat big time to yet one more time seem popular with the world. Rolling over on the US and its historic postions yet one more time

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

"Our army also consists of 7.5 million people prepared to defend freedom and liberty," said Micheletti, who stressed that Hondurans were a peaceful people.

Umm.... since Honduras has a population of about 7.5 million I'm going to call bullshit on that stat.

On the stat? I would agree (given your numbers are correct)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Dutton 0]

Q. Does Obama have a fucking clue?

A. No.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Q. Does Obama have a fucking clue?

A. No.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[bodypilot90 0]

Quote

Umm.... since Honduras has a population of about 7.5 million I'm going to call bullshit on that stat.

Acorn did the counting

[redlegphi 0]

Quote

Media outlets friendly to Zelaya have been shut down, and some reporters are hiding -- as are members of Zelaya's former cabinet. Most Hondurans must rely on state media or on newspapers and television stations that support the coup. Cable news outlets such as CNN en Español have been blacked out, but it is still possible to get outside news via satellite.

You can always tell that a military coup is completely valid and legal when they start shutting down opposing media outlets and arresting the political opposition. Yay democracy!

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

Media outlets friendly to Zelaya have been shut down, and some reporters are hiding -- as are members of Zelaya's former cabinet. Most Hondurans must rely on state media or on newspapers and television stations that support the coup. Cable news outlets such as CNN en Español have been blacked out, but it is still possible to get outside news via satellite.

You can always tell that a military coup is completely valid and legal when they start shutting down opposing media outlets and arresting the political opposition. Yay democracy!

Point taken.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[redlegphi 0]

And to expand a little bit on what I said before, do I think Zelaya's a great leader? No. In fact, he seems like a total douchebag. However, sending the military to the President's house to arrest him and deport him isn't really the best way to do things. Especially given Central American history of the last 100 years or so. The preferred route would have been for the legislature to impeach him or for him to get some kind of fair and open trial for the crimes he was accused of. I could be wrong, but I think that's what most of the world is up in arms about (except Hugo Chavez, who is acting like a complete douchebag himself...but I digress).

[rushmc 18]

Quote

And to expand a little bit on what I said before, do I think Zelaya's a great leader? No. In fact, he seems like a total douchebag. However, sending the military to the President's house to arrest him and deport him isn't really the best way to do things. Especially given Central American history of the last 100 years or so. The preferred route would have been for the legislature to impeach him or for him to get some kind of fair and open trial for the crimes he was accused of. I could be wrong, but I think that's what most of the world is up in arms about (except Hugo Chavez, who is acting like a complete douchebag himself...but I digress).

Again, we have to remember we view this through a prism based on what we think should happen based on our society and laws. Things are much different down there.

In the end, a military move such as this may have been the only workable option for that country.

Just have to wonder if Zelaya had a cohort high up in the military what might have happened.

In any event, Obamas responce is pile of crap. Especially when veiwed in the context of how he responded to Iran

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[wmw999 2,167]

Quote

In any event, Obamas responce is pile of crap

What would your reaction have been if Obama had agreed with the deposement of this president?

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[redlegphi 0]

The last military coup down there was in 1972, so your "this is how things work down there" argument doesn't sit very well with me.

Quote

In the end, a military move may have been the only workable option.

I actually agree with that. However, I don't think we were anywhere near the end here. The military jumped the gun here and once again made themselves the arbiter of who gets to be in power before things could be worked out on the civilian side.

Quote

In any event, Obamas responce is pile of crap. Especially when veiwed in the context of how he responded to Iran

I don't think I'm tracking what you're saying here. Are you saying his response is different, and therefore you don't like it? Or are you saying that they were both weak responses, so you don't like it? Explain further, please.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

Quote

In any event, Obamas responce is pile of crap

What would your reaction have been if Obama had agreed with the deposement of this president?

Wendy P.

That position would have been better IMO but, I think his statement should have directed at the countries constitution and concerns of the activities of a president going against the states court rulings and trying to set himself up as ruler for life.

This answer is based on his "no medaling" stances taken before. But, he got raked about his Iran responce and he did not want that to happen again so, popularity before substance yet again

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

Quote

The last military coup down there was in 1972, so your "this is how things work down there" argument doesn't sit very well with me.

Quote

In the end, a military move may have been the only workable option.

I actually agree with that. However, I don't think we were anywhere near the end here. The military jumped the gun here and once again made themselves the arbiter of who gets to be in power before things could be worked out on the civilian side.

Quote

In any event, Obamas responce is pile of crap. Especially when veiwed in the context of how he responded to Iran

I don't think I'm tracking what you're saying here. Are you saying his response is different, and therefore you don't like it? Or are you saying that they were both weak responses, so you don't like it? Explain further, please.

Refer to my responce to Wendy. Let me know if that helps or not.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[redlegphi 0]

So, just so I'm clear, had Obama come out against the deposition of the President but also said something about the President overstepping his Constitutional authority, you'd be cool with that?
As far as Iran goes, Honduras is not Iran. "Meddling" in Iran would most likely produce the exact opposite result from what we want (though it would now appear that that will be the result anyway). This is because the Iranians mostly don't like/trust us and their government is run by loons who don't give a fuck what we say.
Compare that to Honduras, where the combined pressure of the US, OAS, and other countries around the world that have diplomatic, economic, and social ties to Honduras may force them to look at what they just did and possibly reconsider a civil option for getting rid of their aspiring dictator as opposed to standing by their military coup, which pretty much sets the country all the way back to 1972.

[rushmc 18]

Quote

So, just so I'm clear, had Obama come out against the deposition of the President but also said something about the President overstepping his Constitutional authority, you'd be cool with that?
As far as Iran goes, Honduras is not Iran. "Meddling" in Iran would most likely produce the exact opposite result from what we want (though it would now appear that that will be the result anyway). This is because the Iranians mostly don't like/trust us and their government is run by loons who don't give a fuck what we say.
Compare that to Honduras, where the combined pressure of the US, OAS, and other countries around the world that have diplomatic, economic, and social ties to Honduras may force them to look at what they just did and possibly reconsider a civil option for getting rid of their aspiring dictator as opposed to standing by their military coup, which pretty much sets the country all the way back to 1972.

THAT would have been better than what he did.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

Q. Does Obama have a fucking clue?

A. No.

He knows exactly what he's doing.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[marks2065 0]

Quote

Quote

Q. Does Obama have a fucking clue?

A. No.

He knows exactly what he's doing.

Quote

yep he does know and we and the world will pay for his views of how things should be for the rest of our lives. Obama has shown by his words and actions that he sides with dictators and ignores the countries that promote freedom. to bad the media couldn't ask the hard questions before the election so people could see who and what they were voting for.

[metalslug 31]

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"Our army also consists of 7.5 million people prepared to defend freedom and liberty," said Micheletti, who stressed that Hondurans were a peaceful people.
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[labrys]
Umm.... since Honduras has a population of about 7.5 million I'm going to call bullshit on that stat.
[/labrys]
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[rushmc]
On the stat? I would agree (given your numbers are correct)
[/rushmc]

Do you think the "7.5 million" was a statement blunder? ...which also just happens to coincide with the national population count?

The first time I read that quote; it was fairly obvious to me that Micheletti intentionally implied his belief that the entire nation would rise to defend the country as an 'army', not necessarily as troops with guns, hence the 7.5 million.

It's a bit of a shocker that you two didn't get that.

[Dutton 0]

Indeed, he knows what he is doing. He is tearing down a system that created the most powerful and wealthy nation on the Earth...

Do we deserve this? Not people like me who work for a living and will be supporting his minions.

However, I digress.

He knows what he is doing, he is doing what he thinks is right, but he doesn't have a FUCKING clue what the true consequences of his policies are.