Amazon 7
br0k3n 0
QuoteSin is a toxic by-product of the human free will
You can’t have both im afraid.
Sin is product of the Christian belief system. Originating from the story of the “Original Sin” which was caused by Adam and eve when they ate the fruit of the tree of the knowledge after explicitly being told not to by a snake. Now we know that Adam and Eve never existed so therefore could not have eaten anything, let alone forbidden fruit, So that pretty much means the whole concept of Sin is a farce.(and whole christian belief system, but that's another discussion)
Second the Christian god is omnipotent and omnipresent therefore the concept of free will is a farce…
QuoteIt has damaging effects on all who are touched by it. If the Catholic Church can lead a person to God and show them a way to escape the ravages of sin, I am all for it.
Madmax I asked you this in another thread, but as useall you decided to ignore it and bury your head in the sand… anyway if anyone can answer this then please go for it..
How can the Christian god exist when “non-resistant non-belief “exists????????????
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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+
Muenkel 0
QuoteHow can the Christian god exist when “non-resistant non-belief “exists????????????
I know you asked this of Maadmax but I must ask...What are you asking? I know I am not as enlightened as you which may explain why I have no idea what your question means. Seriously! Perhaps you could re-word it. Thanks.
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Chris
not sure myself, but would guess it means the people that have never heard of Christ, say in the rainforest etc. How can a GOD exist if some of his followers have not heard of him? either they have lost out big time, or all the believers are wrong.
Call me a pessimist but I reckon the bearded sandal wearing one is just a figment of our imagination. If he was not then for sure we would have had a sign by now, and by a sign I dont mean madmen claiming to be the messiah 2000 years ago. I mean EVIDENCE. There is plenty of EVIDENCE that we are just monkeys with typing skills, not a single shred that we are anything else. Why can't we just accept that we are monkeys???
Call me a pessimist but I reckon the bearded sandal wearing one is just a figment of our imagination. If he was not then for sure we would have had a sign by now, and by a sign I dont mean madmen claiming to be the messiah 2000 years ago. I mean EVIDENCE. There is plenty of EVIDENCE that we are just monkeys with typing skills, not a single shred that we are anything else. Why can't we just accept that we are monkeys???
pirana 0
QuoteSince SIN is an entirely HUMAN construct, I have no problem in comiting as much as I can get away with. I have yet to feel the need to confess any of it, or that it's going to send me to a hot place, or a cloudy place if I confess. I am happy to SIN as I am not constricted by a faith dominated by madmen. Are you ?
I agree about it being human invention. There existed a social contract long before it was called that, and long before the first religions were invented.
I think each person lives by their own rules, even though most also choose to live within populations that have chosen to abide by some codified version of social rules. That duality means a lot of people violate the social contract (at least in minor ways) on a very regular basis. It is the central dilemma anytime we try to formally or even informally codify morality.
Bottom line question for you then: Are you constricted by anything? Do you refrain from anything at all based on a sense of social responsibility? OK, baited question; since I'm assuming you would not murder the neighbors in order to raid their fridge; and I'm also guessing your statement about sinning as much as you can was missing some context.
But what are your limits and from what do they originate?
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
maadmax 0
---Second the Christian god is omnipotent and omnipresent therefore the concept of free will is a farce…
I disagree, free will can coexist inside of omnipotence.
--How can the Christian god exist when “non-resistant non-belief “exists????????????
I will be more than happy to take a stab at it, but you will need to provide a definition . And while you are at it, what is your definition of sin?
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maadmax 0
Isn't it a great comfort to know you can do anything you want in life to anyone you want.. but as long as you get last rights.. and ask for forgiveness that you will be saved??
I hate to say it, but you have missed the point entirely
. The purpose of any person seeking spiritual insight is to be able to live and do no harm to yourself or others. In the end, it is the hope that God will say welcome home my good and faithful servant. ...
Amazon 7
Quote
Isn't it a great comfort to know you can do anything you want in life to anyone you want.. but as long as you get last rights.. and ask for forgiveness that you will be saved??
I hate to say it, but you have missed the point entirely
. The purpose of any person seeking spiritual insight is to be able to live and do no harm to yourself or others. In the end, it is the hope that God will say welcome home my good and faithful servant. ...
No it is you who is missing the point. FAR TO MANY people seem to beleive they can do as they wish ....fuck over their neighbors.. rob them... and do as they want all week long.. as long as they go confess those sins.. and show up ion their Sunday best to church on Sunday morning.. and when its time to die.. that final act of the Last Rights.. and they are good to go for the Pearly Gates.
googled definition:
Abstract J.L. Schellenberg’s Argument from Divine Hiddenness maintains that if a perfectly loving God exists, then there is no non-resistant non-belief. Given that such nonbelief exists, however, it follows that there is no perfectly loving God. To support the conditional claim, Schellenberg presents conceptual and analogical considerations, which we subject to critical scrutiny. We also evaluate Schellenberg’s claim that the belief that God exists is logically necessary for entering into a relationship with the Divine. Finally, we turn to possible variants of Schellenberg’s case, and argue that the modifications necessary to accommodate our criticismas leave those variants with much less of a sting than originally suggested by his provocative formulation.
Abstract J.L. Schellenberg’s Argument from Divine Hiddenness maintains that if a perfectly loving God exists, then there is no non-resistant non-belief. Given that such nonbelief exists, however, it follows that there is no perfectly loving God. To support the conditional claim, Schellenberg presents conceptual and analogical considerations, which we subject to critical scrutiny. We also evaluate Schellenberg’s claim that the belief that God exists is logically necessary for entering into a relationship with the Divine. Finally, we turn to possible variants of Schellenberg’s case, and argue that the modifications necessary to accommodate our criticismas leave those variants with much less of a sting than originally suggested by his provocative formulation.
Born ok 1st time.
Good question.
I draw the line at harming/stealing etc. I work in healthcare and look after old people who are very venerable. Most are Frail/demented to some degree. I feel very strongly about the proper care of others, animals etc. BUT I do NOT get this value system from a make believe GOD, the fear of eternal suffering or any other silly hocus pocus. I get this value system from myself and my friends.
I do love to SIN though, mostly fornication. As I am just another monkey , I dont see any problem with behaving like one in my own spare time/private life.
I am not bothered by the silly beliefs of others who are too stupid to believe anything other than what their parents taught them. I also do not respect their beliefs. This is one of the problems with society today. It is very unpopular to say something about someones race/sexual preference and rightly so, but WHY OH WHY is it still wrong to critisize someones belief system, when it is obvious that is is INSANE?
We are not going to get anywhere while we tip-to around the idiotic beliefs of the bronze age. RELIGION IS INSANE
I draw the line at harming/stealing etc. I work in healthcare and look after old people who are very venerable. Most are Frail/demented to some degree. I feel very strongly about the proper care of others, animals etc. BUT I do NOT get this value system from a make believe GOD, the fear of eternal suffering or any other silly hocus pocus. I get this value system from myself and my friends.
I do love to SIN though, mostly fornication. As I am just another monkey , I dont see any problem with behaving like one in my own spare time/private life.
I am not bothered by the silly beliefs of others who are too stupid to believe anything other than what their parents taught them. I also do not respect their beliefs. This is one of the problems with society today. It is very unpopular to say something about someones race/sexual preference and rightly so, but WHY OH WHY is it still wrong to critisize someones belief system, when it is obvious that is is INSANE?
We are not going to get anywhere while we tip-to around the idiotic beliefs of the bronze age. RELIGION IS INSANE
maadmax 0
How can the Christian god exist when “non-resistant non-belief “exists????????????
Ok, I assume you are using John Schellenberg description of not resisting God as the meaning of "non-resistant". I disagree with this assumption based on Rom 2: 12-16. God awareness is part of our genetic make-up. Genetic behaviorists have presented evidence of a "god gene" existing in our genetic code. For those who have not heard of God verbally, they can know God through the collection of genetic intelligence or instincts we all inherit. Also termed fixed action patterns. So "non-resistance" is wrong, which means passive "non-belief" is impossible.
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maadmax 0
No it is you who is missing the point. FAR TO MANY people seem to beleive they can do as they wish ....fuck over their neighbors.. rob them... and do as they want all week long.. as long as they go confess those sins.. and show up ion their Sunday best to church on Sunday morning.. and when its time to die.. that final act of the Last Rights.. and they are good to go for the Pearly Gates.
We are talking about two different things. As far as the people you are referring to Jesus said, " Many will say to Me on that day, Lord Lord did we not prophesy in Your name and in Your name cast out demons and in Your name perform many miracles? And I will declare to them I never knew you; depart from Me you who practice lawlessness. Matt 7:22 &23
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Sin is a toxic by-product of the human free will. It has damaging effects on all who are touched by it. If the Catholic Church can lead a person to God and show them a way to escape the ravages of sin, I am all for it.
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Isn't it a great comfort to know you can do anything you want in life to anyone you want.. but as long as you get last rights.. and ask for forgiveness that you will be saved??