What good have the Vatican done for the people?

[Coreece 190]

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he interviews 2 vatican priests who suprisling gave good answers.

I haven't seen it, but I am interested in hearing what you personally think is a good answer...perhaps there is a short clip you could link to?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Butters 0]

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I have a tendency to not financially support those I find repulsive.

So, do you support the Catholic Church?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[frequentfaller 0]

one interview was with the former director of vatican observatory who agreed that science and religion shouldnt be mixed. when the religious texts were written, 2000 - 3000 years ago there was no science. sea monsters, a flat earth, witch burnings were common. modern science has nothing to do with religious texts and vice versa. The other interview was with father Reginald Foster, the Pope’s principal Latinist. he agreed with maher on the audacity of the vatican castle and what jesus would think. and how the catholics in italy were polled on who they pray to for help (jesus was #6) i guess you pray to other saints and arch angels too.

Born ok 1st time.

[Muenkel 0]

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I have a tendency to not financially support those I find repulsive.

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So, do you support the Catholic Church?

I sure do there Butters. I do acknowledge that individuals have done repulsive things in the name of the Catholic Church but I will not acknowledge that the Catholic Church in its purest form is repulsive.

BTW, I did not click on your link as I just assumed it was something that tried to portray the true Catholic Church in a negative light. I figured it would be a waste of time.

As you know everyone who claims to be Catholic do things at times that are against Catholic teaching. This is a reflection on the individual, not the true teachings of the Catholic Church.

Is there anyone here capable of making this distinction...anyone...anyone...Buehler....Buehler?

_________________________________________
Chris

[pirana 0]

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have any of you catholics seen religulous? the not tooo...snarky film about bill mahers search for religious answers to his belief in "i dont know"

he interviews 2 vatican priests who suprisling gave good answers.

Finally saw it this past week. Good fun in his pokings at the literal fundamentalist interpretation of the Bible; but that is such an easy target. Better was his pinning people down on their hypocritical behaviors. Quite entertaining, with a few nuggets of good wisdom.

What I find most amazing is that those with blind faith in the ancient techings so easily dismiss (or ignore) the overwhelming archaeological and historical evidence for the roots of religion simply because it does not fit with what they were told to believe.

Loads of information versus somebody said so. Must be a matter of upbringing to choose dogma versus questioning.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Royd 0]

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but most people take it much farther than that, some are even willing to die for it, without a shred of proof that their belief system is any more valid than that belonging to the person they are fighting.

Well, there, professional scientist, how is that religion of environmentalism working for you? Talk about trying to trap every single human being on earth, under a system of bondage.
Not only do they attempt to use that old religious concept of guilt, whether real or imagined, to their advantage, they are now trying to make all of us do our penance, in the form of indulgences, call taxes.
Of course, the pope, being just a little closer to Mother Nature, doesn't have to concern himself with such menial thoughts or actions.

[billvon 2,427]

>how is that religion of environmentalism working for you?

Never been to an 'environmentalist' church. But out here, at least, environmentalism is working great.

I first came to LA around 1977. It was like descending into a bowl of soup. The air stank of gasoline. We were all sick within days of getting there. My wife's family moved out of LA on advice of their doctor, the air was so bad.

Now, thanks to 'environmentalism' (actually the CARB) the air is between 50 to 90% cleaner depending on the pollutant. The air doesn't make people sick any more. You can see the mountains most days. Childhood asthma and deaths from COPD and emphysema are way down.

So overall it's working really well.

>under a system of bondage.

Hey, whatever you're into . . .

>Not only do they attempt to use that old religious concept of guilt, whether
>real or imagined, to their advantage, they are now trying to make all of us do our
>penance, in the form of indulgences, call taxes.

Next thing you know, doctors will try to use 'religious guilt' to make you do 'penance' in the form of exercise, diet and taxes! (i.e. medical treatments.) But you will resist their wiley ways I am sure and choke down that extra quarter pounder with bacon with the supersize fries.

[schmit.paul 0]

Haha, I like your reply billvon!

Royd, I can't quite wrap my head around what is causing your angst...it seems your reasons are more political than scientific/epistemological. I'll readily acknowledge that politicians make life for us scientists very difficult--with little to no scientific background, they still control nearly our entire research budget, forcing (many, but not all of) us to compete fiercely for limited funding and tailor our fundamental directives to try to cater to the cultural hot topics of today (currently climate change and energy top the list, and I happen to be working in a field that could have major repercussions in both arenas). In this respect I am on your side; in a perfect world free of useless wars, incendiary bigotry, and rampant corporatism, scientists could explore in any direction they so desired without recourse to risk and reward, leading to more momentous discoveries and a more honest discourse between scientists and nonscientists.

However, beyond that your diatribe lost me completely. The religious notion of "guilt," at least as far as the Judeo-Christian doctrine is concerned, is that you are born imperfect and are destined to suffer eternally because of it unless you spend the entirety of your mortal life paying penance by adhering to some archaic, incomplete moral doctrine (and let's not forget giving up a significant fraction of your income to the church). While the details concerning climate change and other environmental matters are certainly not 100% determined (and no good scientist will ever say they are, no matter how seemingly concrete the theory seems to be), we can offer hoards of empirical evidence to support our claims, and we put our reasons and doubts out there publicly for the world, and in particular the rest of the scientific community, to see. There are no conspiracies or deceptive veils, no preying on the desperate, downtrodden, and uneducated, and dishonesty is treated with harsh consequences when this self-regulating community discovers someone practicing dubious science.

And as far as taxes are concerned, the total federal scientific research budget across all agencies is roughly 30 billion dollars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Science_Foundation), approximately the cost of 5 Nimitz-class aircraft carriers, or less than 3 months in Iraq, or less than 6% of the total US Dept. of Defense annual budget, or about 3% of our annual Social Security expenditure. If you're pissed about your taxes, don't blame science.

Don't get me started on the pope!!!

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than knowledge." ---Charles Darwin