Which is worse?

[wmw999 2,132]

You can't let every person vote without allowing some bad votes. And you can't stop all bad voting without denying some people their vote. So, which is worse, and what do you basically consider yourself to be?

Idle curiosity. And dammit -- you can't fix typos in the poll.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[pirana 0]

I don't like the separatist and polarizing labels of liberal and conservative. My personal policy preferences make me a hybrid; so I'm not voting.

My opinion on the topic though is that the burden should be placed on eligible voters to get their shit together so they do not have to worry about being excluded; rather than put the burden on the government to open up the vote to potential fraud so that lazy or stupid eligibles that do not have their shit together can vote anyway.

If an eligible voter monkeyfarts around to the point where they can not prove they are eligible - then they don't get to vote.

That does not excuse assinine rules that make it a difficult process.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[Thanatos340 1]

There have always been Limitations on who can Vote in this country. The ability to suck in Air alone does not grant you the right to vote.

There are requirements that must be met.
You must be a US citizen.
You must be over 18 Years old.
You must be ALIVE.
In most states, You cannot be a Convicted Felon.

I strongly believe that very American citizen over 18 years old that takes the time (Of their own initiative) to register to vote and EDUCATES themselves on what they are actually voting for, Should vote if they meet the eligibility requirements.

The problem is when you get ignorant unmotivated people to vote.. You get results reflecting that.

Allowing people to vote that do not meet requirements does far more damage to our system than excluding people that do not.

I would much rather have fewer people that made the effort to follow the rules voting than to just have everyone vote.

10 people that took the time to understand the process, followed the rules and educated themselves on the issues will produce a much better result than 100 people who just show up to vote for whoever is offering them the most.

Wisdom is not additive; its maximum is that of the wisest man in a given group.

The more people you have voting and the lower the requirements are to do so only serve to dumb down the results.

We have rules in place on who can and who cannot vote. Those rules must be enforced.

[nerdgirl 0]

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Allowing people to vote that do not meet requirements does far more damage to our system than excluding people that do not.

How so?

Do you have specific examples?

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[DSE 3]

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Allowing people to vote that do not meet requirements does far more damage to our system than excluding people that do not.

How so?

Do you have specific examples?

VR/Marg

I'd submit that having over 4000 dead people voting could have a damaging impact on an election issue.

Lacking a State or Federal ID prevented more than 40,000 to be rejected in McCain's home state.

I can't imagine that under age voting is much of a problem anywhere.

Some contend that illegal aliens/non-citizens had a damaging impact on the elections in 2000....

I can't imagine anyone seriously disputing that proof of citizenship and identification should be required prior to being allowed to cast a vote.

[JohnRich 4]

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You can't let every person vote without allowing some bad votes. And you can't stop all bad voting without denying some people their vote.

I don't agree with that premise.

If you're not responsible enough to register in advance, then tough on you.

If you're not responsible enough to prove that you are who you say you are, then tough on you.

I'm disturbed to see here in Texas polling places that they don't even check I.D.'s to see if you match your registration card.

[Trent 0]

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I can't imagine anyone seriously disputing that proof of citizenship and identification should be required prior to being allowed to cast a vote.

I can't either, and yet they do it. Voting is a right to the people that meet the criteria. Having to show you meet that criteria should go without saying. I asked in another thread and will probably not get an answer... why are people against showing ID to vote? If you can make the effort to register to vote, you can make the effort to get an ID. It took me 5 minutes to go into a DPS, prove my ID and citizenship, and get my license renewed.

Oh, hello again!

[NotBond 0]

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why are people against showing ID to vote? .

Because someone might find out you are an illegal, or felon, or other class that is not allowed to vote. It's bad if your an illegal, because you may lose the free Social Security, free healthcare, no taxes, and all the other benefits that come with shafting the system and living off the fruit of legal, hardworking American citizens. Can't have that now......might even lose your park bench.

Working on my pariah status......

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyways... - John Wayne

[tbrown 26]

The plain fact is that there have been NO documented cases of widespread voter fraud anywhere in the US in recent years.

Why would anyone do it ? What's to be gained ? A prison sentence for casting a vote that doesn't put a dime in your pocket ? It makes no sense.

"Voter fraud" is a fraud perpetrated by the Republican Party to prevent lower income and Un-white types from voting. If you won't "vote right", you have no right to vote. In their eyes anyway.

By the way, The Colbert Report aired a 2006 video of McCain telling ACORN what a "beautiful" job they were doing (his words).

Case CLOSED.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[NotBond 0]

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The plain fact is that there have been NO documented cases of widespread voter fraud anywhere in the US in recent years.

Why would anyone do it ? What's to be gained ? A prison sentence for casting a vote that doesn't put a dime in your pocket ? It makes no sense.

"Voter fraud" is a fraud perpetrated by the Republican Party to prevent lower income and Un-white types from voting. If you won't "vote right", you have no right to vote. In their eyes anyway.

By the way, The Colbert Report aired a 2006 video of McCain telling ACORN what a "beautiful" job they were doing (his words).

Case CLOSED.

I don't think so:

Milwaukee Journal/Sentinal

Inquiry finds evidence of fraud in election
Cast ballots outnumber voters by 4,609
By GREG J. BOROWSKI
[email protected]
Investigators said Tuesday they found clear evidence of fraud in the Nov. 2 election in Milwaukee, including more than 200 cases of felons voting illegally and more than 100 people who voted twice, used fake names or false addresses or voted in the name of a dead person.

KMBC Kansas City:

ACORN Workers Indicted For Alleged Voter Fraud

POSTED: 5:02 pm CST November 1, 2006
UPDATED: 10:25 pm CST November 1, 2006


KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Four people have been indicted on charges of voter fraud in Kansas City, officials said Wednesday.

Investigators said questionable registration forms for new voters were collected by the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, a group that works to improve minority and low-income communities.

ORANGE CITY, Iowa -- Thousands of deceased voters found in Houston with absentee requests mailed out. Millions of duplicate registrations made in many states. Thousands of Obama campaign-supported ACORN workers violating voter registration laws in most states. Having our legal votes canceled by fraud and corruption n priceless.

There are lots more, but my mouse finger is getting tired.......

Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyways... - John Wayne

[Thanatos340 1]

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"Voter fraud" is a fraud perpetrated by the Republican Party to prevent lower income and Un-white types from voting.

Bullshit.

Voter Fraud is when people cast votes that do not have the right to cast.

This would include Non-Citizens Voting, Convicted Felons Voting, People voting for their Dead Great Aunt, and/or any other people cast votes when they have not met the eligibility requirements to do so.

This is not a partisan thing and members of BOTH Parties have done this in the past.

Steps to verify the eligibility of voters can only improve the election process as long as those steps reasonable in nature. Providing ID and verifying that ID against the registered voter list is completely reasonable in my opinion.

[billvon 2,412]

>Steps to verify the eligibility of voters can only improve the election process as
>long as those steps reasonable in nature.

Agreed. However, those steps themselves can be abused to try to prevent a valid count of votes. A favorite tactic is to target all the democratic areas of a state, then go there at the last possible moment and challenge every possible registration, requiring the voter to "re-prove" his right to vote. They can often hit significant numbers of voters if they are careful enough (i.e. my name might be listed as VONNOVAK on the computer when it is actually VON NOVAK on my passport) and get them taken off the rolls. If they time the effort correctly, there is not enough time to get re-registered and vote.

Some counties have laws against doing this too close to the election, but others do not - and thus such efforts concentrate there.

[headoverheels 291]

Similar too other crimes. I'd rather let a few bad guys get away, than have my rights trampled on or be locked up for no reason.

[skydyvr 0]

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"Voter fraud" is a fraud perpetrated by the Republican Party to prevent lower income and Un-white types from voting. If you won't "vote right", you have no right to vote. In their eyes anyway.

That's a huge load of horse shit.

Sheesh.

. . =(_8^(1)

[idrankwhat 0]

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The problem is when you get ignorant unmotivated people to vote.. You get results reflecting that.

What about motivated ignorant people? What do we do about them?

[Thanatos340 1]

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What about motivated ignorant people? What do we do about them?

Those are usually the ones being voted FOR.

[kallend 1,635]

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"Voter fraud" is a fraud perpetrated by the Republican Party to prevent lower income and Un-white types from voting. If you won't "vote right", you have no right to vote. In their eyes anyway.

That's a huge load of horse shit.

Sheesh.

It's interesting that when Indiana (Red) changed it's laws to require ID at elections, despite all the GOP's best efforts they could not come up with a single instance of vote fraud due to misidentification.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[miked10270 0]

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You can't let every person vote without allowing some bad votes. And you can't stop all bad voting without denying some people their vote.

I don't agree with that premise.

Concur.

However, I'm somewhat confused by the whole "Voter-Registration-Thing" you have.

Here in Britain we have automatic (compulsory?) voter registration with each house required to submit the names of everyone resident there of voting age in response to a request from the local authority. 'Said local authority is responsible for compiling an Electoral Roll for their area divided by address. Unsurprisingly, the roll is used for other purposes such as property taxation.

When an election or referendum comes up, people living in the area are all sent a polling card to their registered address. Only those on the register can vote.

When attending the designated (local) Polling Station, voters must declare who they are and can vote (once).

There is a (convoluted) way to check how an individual has voted to cover Personation or other voter fraud.

Not perfect, but I feel a better system than the US one in that all voters are registered.

Mike.

Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable.

Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode.

[Trent 0]

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It's interesting that when Indiana (Red) changed it's laws to require ID at elections, despite all the GOP's best efforts they could not come up with a single instance of vote fraud due to misidentification.

That doesn't read quite right. So they couldn't come up with fraud before they changed the law or after?

I think their law is pretty fair and "common sensical".
http://www.in.gov/sos/photoid/

If voting is to be seen as one of our sacred rights, some measures to make sure we are eligible are reasonable.

Oh, hello again!

[kallend 1,635]

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It's interesting that when Indiana (Red) changed it's laws to require ID at elections, despite all the GOP's best efforts they could not come up with a single instance of vote fraud due to misidentification.

That doesn't read quite right. So they couldn't come up with fraud before they changed the law or after?

I think their law is pretty fair and "common sensical".
http://www.in.gov/sos/photoid/

If voting is to be seen as one of our sacred rights, some measures to make sure we are eligible are reasonable.

yes "my" writting wa's unklear!!!!!

The state GOP was asked to justify their bill to change the law "to prevent vote fraud", and they were unable to come up with a single case of vote fraud under the old law. Changed the law anyway, because their real motivation was to disenfranchise poor people.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[airdvr 198]

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It's interesting that when Indiana (Red) changed it's laws to require ID at elections, despite all the GOP's best efforts they could not come up with a single instance of vote fraud due to misidentification.

That doesn't read quite right. So they couldn't come up with fraud before they changed the law or after?

I think their law is pretty fair and "common sensical".
http://www.in.gov/sos/photoid/

If voting is to be seen as one of our sacred rights, some measures to make sure we are eligible are reasonable.

yes "my" writting wa's unklear!!!!!

The state GOP was asked to justify their bill to change the law "to prevent vote fraud", and they were unable to come up with a single case of vote fraud under the old law. Changed the law anyway, because their real motivation was to disenfranchise poor people.

I'd be interested in learning how, in the 2008 someone wouldn't have a Federal or State ID. It's not like it's impossible to do, or even that difficult. If you really want to cast a vote in Hoosierland, or any other state that will eventually have this requirement...just get an ID! Please help me understand how this disenfranchises anyone.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[kallend 1,635]

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It's interesting that when Indiana (Red) changed it's laws to require ID at elections, despite all the GOP's best efforts they could not come up with a single instance of vote fraud due to misidentification.

That doesn't read quite right. So they couldn't come up with fraud before they changed the law or after?

I think their law is pretty fair and "common sensical".
http://www.in.gov/sos/photoid/

If voting is to be seen as one of our sacred rights, some measures to make sure we are eligible are reasonable.

yes "my" writting wa's unklear!!!!!

The state GOP was asked to justify their bill to change the law "to prevent vote fraud", and they were unable to come up with a single case of vote fraud under the old law. Changed the law anyway, because their real motivation was to disenfranchise poor people.

I'd be interested in learning how, in the 2008 someone wouldn't have a Federal or State ID. It's not like it's impossible to do, or even that difficult.

If you really want to know (which somehow I doubt) go for a walk along Lower Wacker Drive in Chicago and ask some of the people sleeping on grates down there if they will show you their drivers licenses.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnDeere 0]

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If you really want to know (which somehow I doubt) go for a walk along Lower Wacker Drive in Chicago and ask some of the people sleeping on grates down there if they will show you their drivers licenses

Try reading! He said ID not drivers lic. Id's for voting are free and they will come to you! Try another excuse!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[kallend 1,635]

I'd be interested in learning how, in the 2008 someone wouldn't have a Federal or State ID.

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If you really want to know (which somehow I doubt) go for a walk along Lower Wacker Drive in Chicago and ask some of the people sleeping on grates down there if they will show you their drivers licenses

Try reading! He said ID not drivers lic. Id's for voting are free and they will come to you! Try another excuse!

IDs come to grates on Lower Wacker Drive. That's impressive!

Maybe it's their federal IDs that manage it - like their security clearances or passports. I bet those grate dwellers have FedEx accounts to make delivery easier, too.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[JohnDeere 0]

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I'd be interested in learning how, in the 2008 someone wouldn't have a Federal or State ID.

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If you really want to know (which somehow I doubt) go for a walk along Lower Wacker Drive in Chicago and ask some of the people sleeping on grates down there if they will show you their drivers licenses

Try reading! He said ID not drivers lic. Id's for voting are free and they will come to you! Try another excuse!

IDs come to grates on Lower Wacker Drive. That's impressive!

Maybe it's their federal IDs that manage it - like their security clearances or passports. I bet those grate dwellers have FedEx accounts to make delivery easier, too.

You are so funny, but it is a fact that they willo come to you to isue you an ID! How you doing on the board of ACORN????? Hopefully you can cover your tracts better than Obama!

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!