Gato 0 #1 September 25, 2006 Greetings and Salutations - I want to try doing this - I can't think about much else lately, just dreaming about how much fun it could be, and the cool subculture surrounding skydiving. I recently decided to make my first jump, and after checking DZ.com and calling around, I found 2 that are within reasonable distance to my house. Both DZs use S/L as the beginning training methods, which then progress into longer and longer freefall times, and at the end you have between 27 and 30 jumps to qualify for your A rating. For AFF training, I'd have to travel two or three hours, which I just can't do right now. However, gas prices aside, the cost of either method works out to be around the same (Roughly $2000 to an A Licence.) So after checking all this out and physically visiting both places, here are my observations: 1. I'm going to have to trust these people with my life and physical integrity. Death is stalking when you step into and out of the airplane. This is not something to be taken lightly. 2. At DZ-1, there were no S/L students that day (Sat.) and the winds were up high enough to keep the regulars on the ground. Four tandems went up, each with a camera flyer. At DZ-2, also no students (Sun.) and moderate to high winds with low clouds. Three tandems go up with cameras, and two other jumpers who were regulars. Cessna 182s at both. 3. DZ-1 is older and their equipment is not completely up to date (not the latest AADs), but they had a lot of it and it is maintained immaculately by a master rigger. DZ-2 is younger (by quite a bit) and they have their gear sporting Cypress, however I don't know who maintains it and I won't say where it was kept. Not all of this information was volunteered. Hottie at manifest at DZ-2. 4. There were more people at DZ-1 and they have a classroom, a food shack, a heated packing area, and a cool campground. Less people at DZ-2, no food except for 2 vending machines, and part of a small hangar for packing and classes/instruction. There is less than $15 difference between the prices of the 1st jump. Did I mention the rigging loft at DZ-1? 5. The people at both places were nice enough, but DZ-1's staff was welcoming and informative, and made a point of showing me around and letting me see what they'd be strapping me into. I did not feel that DZ-2's staff really gave a damn whether or not I was there. Don't get me wrong - I don't need to be stroked and waited-on; but how do you get new customers, anyway? Service? (Note: I recognize that I went to DZ-2 on a sunday, so maybe this was a result of them partying too much or some exhaustive jumping the day before.) So after seeing all of this, weighing each factor carefully in your mind, which DZ would you choose? Well, my primary concern is still my mortality and body integrity, therefore: I've decided to go where I saw great landings. Where no one was off-heading, in areas where they weren't supposed to be flying. Where people landed on their feet, not their asses or shoulders. Where I didn't see anyone with a limp. Should I tell you which DZ it is? I won't tell the names of the two, but I thank God that DZ-1 will have my business. Gives me a great excuse to go and buy a new tent and Coleman stove. At one time, I thought "I'll be OK with any place that doesn't have an ambulance on the DZ that day." My perspective is so different, now. Please, please, please, when you decide you're going to do this, go visit in person first! There is no substitute for 1st-hand observation, and this is a HUMAN sport, and the humans made the difference for me. Just some food for thought, served lovingly from the rotisserie of my heart and mind . . . . Bluesies, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Elisha 1 #2 September 25, 2006 Hi Mr. Cat, I like skydiving with humans too. Cats would be....well, difficult. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #3 September 25, 2006 1) Suck it up cupcake, (and I mean that in the nicest possible way). You're simply going to have to accept that your instructor have certain obligations towards you. As an instructor, I can say that the vast majority of instructors are going to undertake those responsabilities with the gravity with which which they should be held. 2) Sounds to me like a pretty good description of any given DZ. Remember; tandem masters are often THE most experiernced jumpers on a DZ. They may be perfectly happy jumping when others stand down. 3) If equipment is rigger maintained that is good enough for me. Yes there are differences in kit, but if an FAA rigger says it's airworthy; it's airworthy. 4) Sounds like DZ1 has better facilities. Did you consider going to DZ1 rather than DZ2? (bearing in mind sometimes the smaller DZ has the cooler people). 5) The staff at DZ1 sound nicer. Did you consider going to DZ1 rather than DZ2? (bearing in mind the person who showed you round might just have been on the rag). QuoteI've decided to go where I saw great landings Remember, some people suck at what they do. That may not have anything to do with the DZ at which they're doing it. Sometimes a great DZ might have customers who suck, (and vice versa). Shitty landings on one occasion are far from conclusive. Quotetent and Coleman stove Coleman do do some cool stoves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skybytch 259 #4 September 25, 2006 QuoteRemember; tandem masters are often THE most experiernced jumpers on a DZ. They may be perfectly happy jumping when others stand down. Not always. It only takes 3 years in the sport and 500 jumps to become a drogue thrower. The tandem instructors often have to keep doing tandems when the winds come up to keep their and the dz's cash flows in the black - lots of times they'd choose not to jump their own rig in the same winds. From my experience, it's usually the most experienced jumpers on a DZ who are sitting down when the winds are high. Why? Cuz they've been there, done that; they don't need to make a skydive that bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DJmikeD 0 #5 September 26, 2006 I have to say that the drop zone I go to is an older one. charges a bit more then some of the other places. But I got that family fealing from them. even the time I opened my big mouth and thought I knew more then I did, Another instructor told me hey who do you think knows more about the mistake you just maid, your instructor with over 6,000 jumps or you with 3 jumps. Maid me think about and respect these guys for being so nice and then so firm when it came time to tell me how to be safe. Relaxes you and makes you remember what you were just taught. As for them costing a few extra bucks to jump there, hell I figure the crowd will be a better one because they want to make every jump count. I dont mind it because the money I spend I get back ten fold with the advice that is given to me for free from the staff that is willing to talk to me everytime I go down there. "Falling is the easy part, Landing smoothly is the most importent part! -DJ Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #6 September 26, 2006 Quote Remember; tandem masters are often THE most experiernced jumpers on a DZ. They may be perfectly happy jumping when others stand down. Let's also remember that tandem students are the least experienced jumpers on the DZ, and their life is totally in the hands of the instructor. It's not appropriate for an instructor to make risk decisions based on his/her willingness to take on gusty wind conditions. The instructor should be thinking about the experience, safety expectations, and risk tolerance of the student. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kkeenan 13 #7 September 26, 2006 I have jumped at a couple of DZs that actually had fire departments, with EMTs on duty, within sight of the landing area. That always made me feel better. But, I guess some people could be put off by it. Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,060 #8 September 26, 2006 IQuotet only takes 3 years in the sport and 500 jumps to become a drogue thrower. However, one can get an AFF rating with 350 jumps and 6 months in the sport. Time in the sport has value.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #9 September 26, 2006 Quote1) Suck it up cupcake, (and I mean that in the nicest possible way). You're simply going to have to accept that your instructor have certain obligations towards you. As an instructor, I can say that the vast majority of instructors are going to undertake those responsabilities with the gravity with which which they should be held. Quote Hello Mr2mk1g - You misunderstood the purpose of my post, twinkie - I wasn't making value judgements. As I said (in my post) they were observations. If you need to pull me down off my high-horse, then go ahead. These were MY observations, based my perspective and personal experience. What I said about death is true. Deny it, and it will surely kill you. Respect it, and you may tell your grandkids about it. This was an observation I made about my own fears and apprehension, and had nothing to do with any instructor obligation. Incidentally, it wasn't just one person with bad landings, or flying badly. And I know enough about how the weather affects skydivers (at a variety of altitudes) to understand why tandems were up and not others. I knew I shouldn't have revealed which DZ I chose. Big-ups and Respect to you All, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #10 September 26, 2006 QuoteI have jumped at a couple of DZs that actually had fire departments, with EMTs on duty, within sight of the landing area. That always made me feel better. But, I guess some people could be put off by it. Hello - No, I wouldn't be put-off by an EMT or ambulance on the DZ, UNLESS IT'S NOT NORMALLY THERE. My bad satire. I was trying to illustrate how much I don't know. I'm a newbie who doesn't know shit. In other words, I'm ignorant except for what I've seen and OBVIOUSLY I haven't seen it all. Who has? GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #11 September 26, 2006 I wasn't trying to pull you off anything. As I said, I really did mean it in the nicest of possible ways. And let's face it – you're going to have to put your life in the hands of your instructors at whichever DZ you train – that's simply something you're going to have to come to terms with if you want to jump. You've done all you can to ensure your safety and I applaud that. I'd also bet that given a couple of years in the sport you'll be back at DZ1 or 2 or whichever it is you appear to have concluded was black-death and wont be able to figure out what on earth you were so worried about when you made your first visit there as a non-jumper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #12 September 26, 2006 Hello Again Mr2mk1g - I understand what you are saying, it was just an observation about myself. I don't really have a problem trusting instructors, as I'm sure they are intending to keep me safe and alive. I trust my martial arts teachers in the same way. I just want to feel like I belong in the place, and DZ-2 wasn't right for me. You're probably right about jumping there in the future. It's on the way to my home state, and I'd like to have places to jump along the drive. The main reason I posted in this way was to illustrate the importance of exploring all the factors invoved in finding a place to jump, and how you must physically go there to make an informed decision. How people are performing, especially if they were trained there, is an important component of that choice. Sorry about getting loud, it just seems that I get flamed-on whenever I post here, and it seems to happen when people either don't understand what I've said or haven't clearly read what I've written. Later, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brabzzz 0 #13 September 26, 2006 I don't think a newbie can go anywhere and make judgements on people there regarding skydiving decisions or their performance. 1) It's a tiny sample that you're observing. Post AFF/SL, you're kinda on your own. If you get a small canopy and regularly stoof it, can't pack and are generally a bit of a peckerhead, it looks bad. But that's unlikely to be a direct result of AFF/SL - people develop differently post fjc. 2) I'd say the only criteria you need to be looking at is the vibe of the place. Friendly? Welcoming? That's what'll keep you coming back. Chances are they're both perfectly safe. It is in their own interest to keep their students walking - else who'se gonna buy the jump tickets? 3) Thinking back to my first jump course, I wouldn't have known what to begin looking for. Shiney new gear, vast hangars, facilities and big planes are all nice...but far from necessary for a fjc. You might want to ask to sit in on some briefs/lessons too, to see if you like the instructors style. A much more valuable observation than people falling over on landing! --------------------------------------- Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club www.skydivebristoluni.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #14 September 26, 2006 I think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #15 September 26, 2006 QuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. I think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga - just written with a bit more class. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #16 September 26, 2006 Good on him . . . This is the first of many "gut level" decisions he'll need to make, and he's not approaching it with a follow the herd mentality. We need way more of that in the sport. Besides, he writes so well, I'll be following his progress, if he chooses to share it with us. And that's coming from someone who needs to hear another student story like I need a hole in the head . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #17 September 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. I think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga - just written with a bit more class. So that's what that WOOOOSH sound was that I heard earlier.... Seriously, until proven otherwise, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Yossarian 0 #18 September 26, 2006 QuoteIQuotet only takes 3 years in the sport and 500 jumps to become a drogue thrower. However, one can get an AFF rating with 350 jumps and 6 months in the sport. Time in the sport has value. you're joking right? 350 jumps? thats insane! i wouldnt trust any of the people i know with 350 jumps with a student of any level, let alone first jump aff, in the uk its 1000 jumps isnt it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #19 September 27, 2006 Quote you're joking right? 350 jumps? thats insane! i wouldnt trust any of the people i know with 350 jumps with a student of any level, let alone first jump aff, in the uk its 1000 jumps isnt it? It's 350 jumps plus a passage of the evaluation course. Unless that's a rubber stamp process, most of the people you're thinking of would quickly fail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #20 September 27, 2006 QuoteHi Mr. Cat, I like skydiving with humans too. Cats would be....well, difficult. Hello Elisha I hope I won't be difficult - I'm quite spry, you know. Sorry about the slow reply to your greeting. Catching up after putting out fires . . . . . . . Tremendo Indigo, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #21 September 27, 2006 QuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. Hey Remster - Thanks for the vote of confidence. I appreciate it. I'm just stayin' alive, like John Travolta. Like my Dad says, "Every day above ground is a good day." Blueness, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #22 September 27, 2006 This is the first of many "gut level" decisions he'll need to make, and he's not approaching it with a follow the herd mentality. We need way more of that in the sport. Quote Hey NickD - Thanks for your post and your kind words. I'll post my progress as it occurs. And I'll try my best not to be a hazard waiting to happen. Big-ups and Major Respect to You, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #23 September 27, 2006 QuoteI think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga. This is starting to seem like a covert advertisement operation for "DZ#*" Jeez, enough already, just go skydive already. -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #24 September 27, 2006 QuoteI don't think a newbie can go anywhere and make judgements on people there regarding skydiving decisions or their performance. 1) It's a tiny sample that you're observing. Post AFF/SL, you're kinda on your own. If you get a small canopy and regularly stoof it, can't pack and are generally a bit of a peckerhead, it looks bad. But that's unlikely to be a direct result of AFF/SL - people develop differently post fjc. 2) I'd say the only criteria you need to be looking at is the vibe of the place. Friendly? Welcoming? That's what'll keep you coming back. Chances are they're both perfectly safe. It is in their own interest to keep their students walking - else who'se gonna buy the jump tickets? 3) Thinking back to my first jump course, I wouldn't have known what to begin looking for. Shiney new gear, vast hangars, facilities and big planes are all nice...but far from necessary for a fjc. You might want to ask to sit in on some briefs/lessons too, to see if you like the instructors style. A much more valuable observation than people falling over on landing! I'll say this one more time: My post was a list of my observations and questions, and nowhere did I judge anyone. I came to a few conclusions based on those observations. My criteria for selection may not be yours. Just so we're ALL clear on this dynamic, here's the difference between Judgement and Opinion: OPINION: "I really don't care for that band, but you might dig it." (READ: I DON'T LIKE IT, BUT IT'S OK IF YOU DO.) JUDGEMENT: "They suck! And you suck for liking them!" (READ: THEY ARE BAD, AND SO ARE YOU.) No one I've ever met is qualified to make the second statement with any authority, myself included. My tiny sample of DZs is all I have to go on. If I'm understanding correctly, I shouldn't be reading any books, or listening to any advice given on DZ.com or Skydive Radio, or taking in any information that would possibly interfere with my training. So maybe I also shouldn't be posting, either, at least until after my first jump, and become worthy. Or will I need to have 30 minutes of FF time first? Happy Blusies, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #25 September 27, 2006 QuoteSeriously, until proven otherwise, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. you know what? you're right ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
mr2mk1g 10 #3 September 25, 2006 1) Suck it up cupcake, (and I mean that in the nicest possible way). You're simply going to have to accept that your instructor have certain obligations towards you. As an instructor, I can say that the vast majority of instructors are going to undertake those responsabilities with the gravity with which which they should be held. 2) Sounds to me like a pretty good description of any given DZ. Remember; tandem masters are often THE most experiernced jumpers on a DZ. They may be perfectly happy jumping when others stand down. 3) If equipment is rigger maintained that is good enough for me. Yes there are differences in kit, but if an FAA rigger says it's airworthy; it's airworthy. 4) Sounds like DZ1 has better facilities. Did you consider going to DZ1 rather than DZ2? (bearing in mind sometimes the smaller DZ has the cooler people). 5) The staff at DZ1 sound nicer. Did you consider going to DZ1 rather than DZ2? (bearing in mind the person who showed you round might just have been on the rag). QuoteI've decided to go where I saw great landings Remember, some people suck at what they do. That may not have anything to do with the DZ at which they're doing it. Sometimes a great DZ might have customers who suck, (and vice versa). Shitty landings on one occasion are far from conclusive. Quotetent and Coleman stove Coleman do do some cool stoves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #4 September 25, 2006 QuoteRemember; tandem masters are often THE most experiernced jumpers on a DZ. They may be perfectly happy jumping when others stand down. Not always. It only takes 3 years in the sport and 500 jumps to become a drogue thrower. The tandem instructors often have to keep doing tandems when the winds come up to keep their and the dz's cash flows in the black - lots of times they'd choose not to jump their own rig in the same winds. From my experience, it's usually the most experienced jumpers on a DZ who are sitting down when the winds are high. Why? Cuz they've been there, done that; they don't need to make a skydive that bad. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DJmikeD 0 #5 September 26, 2006 I have to say that the drop zone I go to is an older one. charges a bit more then some of the other places. But I got that family fealing from them. even the time I opened my big mouth and thought I knew more then I did, Another instructor told me hey who do you think knows more about the mistake you just maid, your instructor with over 6,000 jumps or you with 3 jumps. Maid me think about and respect these guys for being so nice and then so firm when it came time to tell me how to be safe. Relaxes you and makes you remember what you were just taught. As for them costing a few extra bucks to jump there, hell I figure the crowd will be a better one because they want to make every jump count. I dont mind it because the money I spend I get back ten fold with the advice that is given to me for free from the staff that is willing to talk to me everytime I go down there. "Falling is the easy part, Landing smoothly is the most importent part! -DJ Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #6 September 26, 2006 Quote Remember; tandem masters are often THE most experiernced jumpers on a DZ. They may be perfectly happy jumping when others stand down. Let's also remember that tandem students are the least experienced jumpers on the DZ, and their life is totally in the hands of the instructor. It's not appropriate for an instructor to make risk decisions based on his/her willingness to take on gusty wind conditions. The instructor should be thinking about the experience, safety expectations, and risk tolerance of the student. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kkeenan 13 #7 September 26, 2006 I have jumped at a couple of DZs that actually had fire departments, with EMTs on duty, within sight of the landing area. That always made me feel better. But, I guess some people could be put off by it. Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BIGUN 1,060 #8 September 26, 2006 IQuotet only takes 3 years in the sport and 500 jumps to become a drogue thrower. However, one can get an AFF rating with 350 jumps and 6 months in the sport. Time in the sport has value.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #9 September 26, 2006 Quote1) Suck it up cupcake, (and I mean that in the nicest possible way). You're simply going to have to accept that your instructor have certain obligations towards you. As an instructor, I can say that the vast majority of instructors are going to undertake those responsabilities with the gravity with which which they should be held. Quote Hello Mr2mk1g - You misunderstood the purpose of my post, twinkie - I wasn't making value judgements. As I said (in my post) they were observations. If you need to pull me down off my high-horse, then go ahead. These were MY observations, based my perspective and personal experience. What I said about death is true. Deny it, and it will surely kill you. Respect it, and you may tell your grandkids about it. This was an observation I made about my own fears and apprehension, and had nothing to do with any instructor obligation. Incidentally, it wasn't just one person with bad landings, or flying badly. And I know enough about how the weather affects skydivers (at a variety of altitudes) to understand why tandems were up and not others. I knew I shouldn't have revealed which DZ I chose. Big-ups and Respect to you All, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #10 September 26, 2006 QuoteI have jumped at a couple of DZs that actually had fire departments, with EMTs on duty, within sight of the landing area. That always made me feel better. But, I guess some people could be put off by it. Hello - No, I wouldn't be put-off by an EMT or ambulance on the DZ, UNLESS IT'S NOT NORMALLY THERE. My bad satire. I was trying to illustrate how much I don't know. I'm a newbie who doesn't know shit. In other words, I'm ignorant except for what I've seen and OBVIOUSLY I haven't seen it all. Who has? GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #11 September 26, 2006 I wasn't trying to pull you off anything. As I said, I really did mean it in the nicest of possible ways. And let's face it – you're going to have to put your life in the hands of your instructors at whichever DZ you train – that's simply something you're going to have to come to terms with if you want to jump. You've done all you can to ensure your safety and I applaud that. I'd also bet that given a couple of years in the sport you'll be back at DZ1 or 2 or whichever it is you appear to have concluded was black-death and wont be able to figure out what on earth you were so worried about when you made your first visit there as a non-jumper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #12 September 26, 2006 Hello Again Mr2mk1g - I understand what you are saying, it was just an observation about myself. I don't really have a problem trusting instructors, as I'm sure they are intending to keep me safe and alive. I trust my martial arts teachers in the same way. I just want to feel like I belong in the place, and DZ-2 wasn't right for me. You're probably right about jumping there in the future. It's on the way to my home state, and I'd like to have places to jump along the drive. The main reason I posted in this way was to illustrate the importance of exploring all the factors invoved in finding a place to jump, and how you must physically go there to make an informed decision. How people are performing, especially if they were trained there, is an important component of that choice. Sorry about getting loud, it just seems that I get flamed-on whenever I post here, and it seems to happen when people either don't understand what I've said or haven't clearly read what I've written. Later, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brabzzz 0 #13 September 26, 2006 I don't think a newbie can go anywhere and make judgements on people there regarding skydiving decisions or their performance. 1) It's a tiny sample that you're observing. Post AFF/SL, you're kinda on your own. If you get a small canopy and regularly stoof it, can't pack and are generally a bit of a peckerhead, it looks bad. But that's unlikely to be a direct result of AFF/SL - people develop differently post fjc. 2) I'd say the only criteria you need to be looking at is the vibe of the place. Friendly? Welcoming? That's what'll keep you coming back. Chances are they're both perfectly safe. It is in their own interest to keep their students walking - else who'se gonna buy the jump tickets? 3) Thinking back to my first jump course, I wouldn't have known what to begin looking for. Shiney new gear, vast hangars, facilities and big planes are all nice...but far from necessary for a fjc. You might want to ask to sit in on some briefs/lessons too, to see if you like the instructors style. A much more valuable observation than people falling over on landing! --------------------------------------- Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club www.skydivebristoluni.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #14 September 26, 2006 I think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #15 September 26, 2006 QuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. I think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga - just written with a bit more class. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #16 September 26, 2006 Good on him . . . This is the first of many "gut level" decisions he'll need to make, and he's not approaching it with a follow the herd mentality. We need way more of that in the sport. Besides, he writes so well, I'll be following his progress, if he chooses to share it with us. And that's coming from someone who needs to hear another student story like I need a hole in the head . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #17 September 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. I think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga - just written with a bit more class. So that's what that WOOOOSH sound was that I heard earlier.... Seriously, until proven otherwise, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Yossarian 0 #18 September 26, 2006 QuoteIQuotet only takes 3 years in the sport and 500 jumps to become a drogue thrower. However, one can get an AFF rating with 350 jumps and 6 months in the sport. Time in the sport has value. you're joking right? 350 jumps? thats insane! i wouldnt trust any of the people i know with 350 jumps with a student of any level, let alone first jump aff, in the uk its 1000 jumps isnt it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #19 September 27, 2006 Quote you're joking right? 350 jumps? thats insane! i wouldnt trust any of the people i know with 350 jumps with a student of any level, let alone first jump aff, in the uk its 1000 jumps isnt it? It's 350 jumps plus a passage of the evaluation course. Unless that's a rubber stamp process, most of the people you're thinking of would quickly fail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #20 September 27, 2006 QuoteHi Mr. Cat, I like skydiving with humans too. Cats would be....well, difficult. Hello Elisha I hope I won't be difficult - I'm quite spry, you know. Sorry about the slow reply to your greeting. Catching up after putting out fires . . . . . . . Tremendo Indigo, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #21 September 27, 2006 QuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. Hey Remster - Thanks for the vote of confidence. I appreciate it. I'm just stayin' alive, like John Travolta. Like my Dad says, "Every day above ground is a good day." Blueness, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #22 September 27, 2006 This is the first of many "gut level" decisions he'll need to make, and he's not approaching it with a follow the herd mentality. We need way more of that in the sport. Quote Hey NickD - Thanks for your post and your kind words. I'll post my progress as it occurs. And I'll try my best not to be a hazard waiting to happen. Big-ups and Major Respect to You, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #23 September 27, 2006 QuoteI think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga. This is starting to seem like a covert advertisement operation for "DZ#*" Jeez, enough already, just go skydive already. -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #24 September 27, 2006 QuoteI don't think a newbie can go anywhere and make judgements on people there regarding skydiving decisions or their performance. 1) It's a tiny sample that you're observing. Post AFF/SL, you're kinda on your own. If you get a small canopy and regularly stoof it, can't pack and are generally a bit of a peckerhead, it looks bad. But that's unlikely to be a direct result of AFF/SL - people develop differently post fjc. 2) I'd say the only criteria you need to be looking at is the vibe of the place. Friendly? Welcoming? That's what'll keep you coming back. Chances are they're both perfectly safe. It is in their own interest to keep their students walking - else who'se gonna buy the jump tickets? 3) Thinking back to my first jump course, I wouldn't have known what to begin looking for. Shiney new gear, vast hangars, facilities and big planes are all nice...but far from necessary for a fjc. You might want to ask to sit in on some briefs/lessons too, to see if you like the instructors style. A much more valuable observation than people falling over on landing! I'll say this one more time: My post was a list of my observations and questions, and nowhere did I judge anyone. I came to a few conclusions based on those observations. My criteria for selection may not be yours. Just so we're ALL clear on this dynamic, here's the difference between Judgement and Opinion: OPINION: "I really don't care for that band, but you might dig it." (READ: I DON'T LIKE IT, BUT IT'S OK IF YOU DO.) JUDGEMENT: "They suck! And you suck for liking them!" (READ: THEY ARE BAD, AND SO ARE YOU.) No one I've ever met is qualified to make the second statement with any authority, myself included. My tiny sample of DZs is all I have to go on. If I'm understanding correctly, I shouldn't be reading any books, or listening to any advice given on DZ.com or Skydive Radio, or taking in any information that would possibly interfere with my training. So maybe I also shouldn't be posting, either, at least until after my first jump, and become worthy. Or will I need to have 30 minutes of FF time first? Happy Blusies, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #25 September 27, 2006 QuoteSeriously, until proven otherwise, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. you know what? you're right ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kkeenan 13 #7 September 26, 2006 I have jumped at a couple of DZs that actually had fire departments, with EMTs on duty, within sight of the landing area. That always made me feel better. But, I guess some people could be put off by it. Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,060 #8 September 26, 2006 IQuotet only takes 3 years in the sport and 500 jumps to become a drogue thrower. However, one can get an AFF rating with 350 jumps and 6 months in the sport. Time in the sport has value.Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #9 September 26, 2006 Quote1) Suck it up cupcake, (and I mean that in the nicest possible way). You're simply going to have to accept that your instructor have certain obligations towards you. As an instructor, I can say that the vast majority of instructors are going to undertake those responsabilities with the gravity with which which they should be held. Quote Hello Mr2mk1g - You misunderstood the purpose of my post, twinkie - I wasn't making value judgements. As I said (in my post) they were observations. If you need to pull me down off my high-horse, then go ahead. These were MY observations, based my perspective and personal experience. What I said about death is true. Deny it, and it will surely kill you. Respect it, and you may tell your grandkids about it. This was an observation I made about my own fears and apprehension, and had nothing to do with any instructor obligation. Incidentally, it wasn't just one person with bad landings, or flying badly. And I know enough about how the weather affects skydivers (at a variety of altitudes) to understand why tandems were up and not others. I knew I shouldn't have revealed which DZ I chose. Big-ups and Respect to you All, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #10 September 26, 2006 QuoteI have jumped at a couple of DZs that actually had fire departments, with EMTs on duty, within sight of the landing area. That always made me feel better. But, I guess some people could be put off by it. Hello - No, I wouldn't be put-off by an EMT or ambulance on the DZ, UNLESS IT'S NOT NORMALLY THERE. My bad satire. I was trying to illustrate how much I don't know. I'm a newbie who doesn't know shit. In other words, I'm ignorant except for what I've seen and OBVIOUSLY I haven't seen it all. Who has? GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mr2mk1g 10 #11 September 26, 2006 I wasn't trying to pull you off anything. As I said, I really did mean it in the nicest of possible ways. And let's face it – you're going to have to put your life in the hands of your instructors at whichever DZ you train – that's simply something you're going to have to come to terms with if you want to jump. You've done all you can to ensure your safety and I applaud that. I'd also bet that given a couple of years in the sport you'll be back at DZ1 or 2 or whichever it is you appear to have concluded was black-death and wont be able to figure out what on earth you were so worried about when you made your first visit there as a non-jumper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #12 September 26, 2006 Hello Again Mr2mk1g - I understand what you are saying, it was just an observation about myself. I don't really have a problem trusting instructors, as I'm sure they are intending to keep me safe and alive. I trust my martial arts teachers in the same way. I just want to feel like I belong in the place, and DZ-2 wasn't right for me. You're probably right about jumping there in the future. It's on the way to my home state, and I'd like to have places to jump along the drive. The main reason I posted in this way was to illustrate the importance of exploring all the factors invoved in finding a place to jump, and how you must physically go there to make an informed decision. How people are performing, especially if they were trained there, is an important component of that choice. Sorry about getting loud, it just seems that I get flamed-on whenever I post here, and it seems to happen when people either don't understand what I've said or haven't clearly read what I've written. Later, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites brabzzz 0 #13 September 26, 2006 I don't think a newbie can go anywhere and make judgements on people there regarding skydiving decisions or their performance. 1) It's a tiny sample that you're observing. Post AFF/SL, you're kinda on your own. If you get a small canopy and regularly stoof it, can't pack and are generally a bit of a peckerhead, it looks bad. But that's unlikely to be a direct result of AFF/SL - people develop differently post fjc. 2) I'd say the only criteria you need to be looking at is the vibe of the place. Friendly? Welcoming? That's what'll keep you coming back. Chances are they're both perfectly safe. It is in their own interest to keep their students walking - else who'se gonna buy the jump tickets? 3) Thinking back to my first jump course, I wouldn't have known what to begin looking for. Shiney new gear, vast hangars, facilities and big planes are all nice...but far from necessary for a fjc. You might want to ask to sit in on some briefs/lessons too, to see if you like the instructors style. A much more valuable observation than people falling over on landing! --------------------------------------- Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club www.skydivebristoluni.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #14 September 26, 2006 I think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #15 September 26, 2006 QuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. I think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga - just written with a bit more class. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NickDG 23 #16 September 26, 2006 Good on him . . . This is the first of many "gut level" decisions he'll need to make, and he's not approaching it with a follow the herd mentality. We need way more of that in the sport. Besides, he writes so well, I'll be following his progress, if he chooses to share it with us. And that's coming from someone who needs to hear another student story like I need a hole in the head . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Remster 24 #17 September 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. I think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga - just written with a bit more class. So that's what that WOOOOSH sound was that I heard earlier.... Seriously, until proven otherwise, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Yossarian 0 #18 September 26, 2006 QuoteIQuotet only takes 3 years in the sport and 500 jumps to become a drogue thrower. However, one can get an AFF rating with 350 jumps and 6 months in the sport. Time in the sport has value. you're joking right? 350 jumps? thats insane! i wouldnt trust any of the people i know with 350 jumps with a student of any level, let alone first jump aff, in the uk its 1000 jumps isnt it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #19 September 27, 2006 Quote you're joking right? 350 jumps? thats insane! i wouldnt trust any of the people i know with 350 jumps with a student of any level, let alone first jump aff, in the uk its 1000 jumps isnt it? It's 350 jumps plus a passage of the evaluation course. Unless that's a rubber stamp process, most of the people you're thinking of would quickly fail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #20 September 27, 2006 QuoteHi Mr. Cat, I like skydiving with humans too. Cats would be....well, difficult. Hello Elisha I hope I won't be difficult - I'm quite spry, you know. Sorry about the slow reply to your greeting. Catching up after putting out fires . . . . . . . Tremendo Indigo, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #21 September 27, 2006 QuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. Hey Remster - Thanks for the vote of confidence. I appreciate it. I'm just stayin' alive, like John Travolta. Like my Dad says, "Every day above ground is a good day." Blueness, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #22 September 27, 2006 This is the first of many "gut level" decisions he'll need to make, and he's not approaching it with a follow the herd mentality. We need way more of that in the sport. Quote Hey NickD - Thanks for your post and your kind words. I'll post my progress as it occurs. And I'll try my best not to be a hazard waiting to happen. Big-ups and Major Respect to You, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #23 September 27, 2006 QuoteI think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga. This is starting to seem like a covert advertisement operation for "DZ#*" Jeez, enough already, just go skydive already. -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #24 September 27, 2006 QuoteI don't think a newbie can go anywhere and make judgements on people there regarding skydiving decisions or their performance. 1) It's a tiny sample that you're observing. Post AFF/SL, you're kinda on your own. If you get a small canopy and regularly stoof it, can't pack and are generally a bit of a peckerhead, it looks bad. But that's unlikely to be a direct result of AFF/SL - people develop differently post fjc. 2) I'd say the only criteria you need to be looking at is the vibe of the place. Friendly? Welcoming? That's what'll keep you coming back. Chances are they're both perfectly safe. It is in their own interest to keep their students walking - else who'se gonna buy the jump tickets? 3) Thinking back to my first jump course, I wouldn't have known what to begin looking for. Shiney new gear, vast hangars, facilities and big planes are all nice...but far from necessary for a fjc. You might want to ask to sit in on some briefs/lessons too, to see if you like the instructors style. A much more valuable observation than people falling over on landing! I'll say this one more time: My post was a list of my observations and questions, and nowhere did I judge anyone. I came to a few conclusions based on those observations. My criteria for selection may not be yours. Just so we're ALL clear on this dynamic, here's the difference between Judgement and Opinion: OPINION: "I really don't care for that band, but you might dig it." (READ: I DON'T LIKE IT, BUT IT'S OK IF YOU DO.) JUDGEMENT: "They suck! And you suck for liking them!" (READ: THEY ARE BAD, AND SO ARE YOU.) No one I've ever met is qualified to make the second statement with any authority, myself included. My tiny sample of DZs is all I have to go on. If I'm understanding correctly, I shouldn't be reading any books, or listening to any advice given on DZ.com or Skydive Radio, or taking in any information that would possibly interfere with my training. So maybe I also shouldn't be posting, either, at least until after my first jump, and become worthy. Or will I need to have 30 minutes of FF time first? Happy Blusies, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #25 September 27, 2006 QuoteSeriously, until proven otherwise, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. you know what? you're right ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
Gato 0 #10 September 26, 2006 QuoteI have jumped at a couple of DZs that actually had fire departments, with EMTs on duty, within sight of the landing area. That always made me feel better. But, I guess some people could be put off by it. Hello - No, I wouldn't be put-off by an EMT or ambulance on the DZ, UNLESS IT'S NOT NORMALLY THERE. My bad satire. I was trying to illustrate how much I don't know. I'm a newbie who doesn't know shit. In other words, I'm ignorant except for what I've seen and OBVIOUSLY I haven't seen it all. Who has? GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #11 September 26, 2006 I wasn't trying to pull you off anything. As I said, I really did mean it in the nicest of possible ways. And let's face it – you're going to have to put your life in the hands of your instructors at whichever DZ you train – that's simply something you're going to have to come to terms with if you want to jump. You've done all you can to ensure your safety and I applaud that. I'd also bet that given a couple of years in the sport you'll be back at DZ1 or 2 or whichever it is you appear to have concluded was black-death and wont be able to figure out what on earth you were so worried about when you made your first visit there as a non-jumper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #12 September 26, 2006 Hello Again Mr2mk1g - I understand what you are saying, it was just an observation about myself. I don't really have a problem trusting instructors, as I'm sure they are intending to keep me safe and alive. I trust my martial arts teachers in the same way. I just want to feel like I belong in the place, and DZ-2 wasn't right for me. You're probably right about jumping there in the future. It's on the way to my home state, and I'd like to have places to jump along the drive. The main reason I posted in this way was to illustrate the importance of exploring all the factors invoved in finding a place to jump, and how you must physically go there to make an informed decision. How people are performing, especially if they were trained there, is an important component of that choice. Sorry about getting loud, it just seems that I get flamed-on whenever I post here, and it seems to happen when people either don't understand what I've said or haven't clearly read what I've written. Later, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brabzzz 0 #13 September 26, 2006 I don't think a newbie can go anywhere and make judgements on people there regarding skydiving decisions or their performance. 1) It's a tiny sample that you're observing. Post AFF/SL, you're kinda on your own. If you get a small canopy and regularly stoof it, can't pack and are generally a bit of a peckerhead, it looks bad. But that's unlikely to be a direct result of AFF/SL - people develop differently post fjc. 2) I'd say the only criteria you need to be looking at is the vibe of the place. Friendly? Welcoming? That's what'll keep you coming back. Chances are they're both perfectly safe. It is in their own interest to keep their students walking - else who'se gonna buy the jump tickets? 3) Thinking back to my first jump course, I wouldn't have known what to begin looking for. Shiney new gear, vast hangars, facilities and big planes are all nice...but far from necessary for a fjc. You might want to ask to sit in on some briefs/lessons too, to see if you like the instructors style. A much more valuable observation than people falling over on landing! --------------------------------------- Ex-University of Bristol Skydiving Club www.skydivebristoluni.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #14 September 26, 2006 I think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #15 September 26, 2006 QuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. I think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga - just written with a bit more class. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #16 September 26, 2006 Good on him . . . This is the first of many "gut level" decisions he'll need to make, and he's not approaching it with a follow the herd mentality. We need way more of that in the sport. Besides, he writes so well, I'll be following his progress, if he chooses to share it with us. And that's coming from someone who needs to hear another student story like I need a hole in the head . . . NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #17 September 26, 2006 QuoteQuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. I think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga - just written with a bit more class. So that's what that WOOOOSH sound was that I heard earlier.... Seriously, until proven otherwise, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian 0 #18 September 26, 2006 QuoteIQuotet only takes 3 years in the sport and 500 jumps to become a drogue thrower. However, one can get an AFF rating with 350 jumps and 6 months in the sport. Time in the sport has value. you're joking right? 350 jumps? thats insane! i wouldnt trust any of the people i know with 350 jumps with a student of any level, let alone first jump aff, in the uk its 1000 jumps isnt it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #19 September 27, 2006 Quote you're joking right? 350 jumps? thats insane! i wouldnt trust any of the people i know with 350 jumps with a student of any level, let alone first jump aff, in the uk its 1000 jumps isnt it? It's 350 jumps plus a passage of the evaluation course. Unless that's a rubber stamp process, most of the people you're thinking of would quickly fail. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #20 September 27, 2006 QuoteHi Mr. Cat, I like skydiving with humans too. Cats would be....well, difficult. Hello Elisha I hope I won't be difficult - I'm quite spry, you know. Sorry about the slow reply to your greeting. Catching up after putting out fires . . . . . . . Tremendo Indigo, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #21 September 27, 2006 QuoteI think you did a lot more then most by checking 2 places out before commiting. Good for you. Hey Remster - Thanks for the vote of confidence. I appreciate it. I'm just stayin' alive, like John Travolta. Like my Dad says, "Every day above ground is a good day." Blueness, El GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #22 September 27, 2006 This is the first of many "gut level" decisions he'll need to make, and he's not approaching it with a follow the herd mentality. We need way more of that in the sport. Quote Hey NickD - Thanks for your post and your kind words. I'll post my progress as it occurs. And I'll try my best not to be a hazard waiting to happen. Big-ups and Major Respect to You, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #23 September 27, 2006 QuoteI think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga. This is starting to seem like a covert advertisement operation for "DZ#*" Jeez, enough already, just go skydive already. -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Gato 0 #24 September 27, 2006 QuoteI don't think a newbie can go anywhere and make judgements on people there regarding skydiving decisions or their performance. 1) It's a tiny sample that you're observing. Post AFF/SL, you're kinda on your own. If you get a small canopy and regularly stoof it, can't pack and are generally a bit of a peckerhead, it looks bad. But that's unlikely to be a direct result of AFF/SL - people develop differently post fjc. 2) I'd say the only criteria you need to be looking at is the vibe of the place. Friendly? Welcoming? That's what'll keep you coming back. Chances are they're both perfectly safe. It is in their own interest to keep their students walking - else who'se gonna buy the jump tickets? 3) Thinking back to my first jump course, I wouldn't have known what to begin looking for. Shiney new gear, vast hangars, facilities and big planes are all nice...but far from necessary for a fjc. You might want to ask to sit in on some briefs/lessons too, to see if you like the instructors style. A much more valuable observation than people falling over on landing! I'll say this one more time: My post was a list of my observations and questions, and nowhere did I judge anyone. I came to a few conclusions based on those observations. My criteria for selection may not be yours. Just so we're ALL clear on this dynamic, here's the difference between Judgement and Opinion: OPINION: "I really don't care for that band, but you might dig it." (READ: I DON'T LIKE IT, BUT IT'S OK IF YOU DO.) JUDGEMENT: "They suck! And you suck for liking them!" (READ: THEY ARE BAD, AND SO ARE YOU.) No one I've ever met is qualified to make the second statement with any authority, myself included. My tiny sample of DZs is all I have to go on. If I'm understanding correctly, I shouldn't be reading any books, or listening to any advice given on DZ.com or Skydive Radio, or taking in any information that would possibly interfere with my training. So maybe I also shouldn't be posting, either, at least until after my first jump, and become worthy. Or will I need to have 30 minutes of FF time first? Happy Blusies, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #25 September 27, 2006 QuoteSeriously, until proven otherwise, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. you know what? you're right ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
AFFI 0 #23 September 27, 2006 QuoteI think it's just another installment in the "As the KC DZs Turn" saga. This is starting to seem like a covert advertisement operation for "DZ#*" Jeez, enough already, just go skydive already. -Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gato 0 #24 September 27, 2006 QuoteI don't think a newbie can go anywhere and make judgements on people there regarding skydiving decisions or their performance. 1) It's a tiny sample that you're observing. Post AFF/SL, you're kinda on your own. If you get a small canopy and regularly stoof it, can't pack and are generally a bit of a peckerhead, it looks bad. But that's unlikely to be a direct result of AFF/SL - people develop differently post fjc. 2) I'd say the only criteria you need to be looking at is the vibe of the place. Friendly? Welcoming? That's what'll keep you coming back. Chances are they're both perfectly safe. It is in their own interest to keep their students walking - else who'se gonna buy the jump tickets? 3) Thinking back to my first jump course, I wouldn't have known what to begin looking for. Shiney new gear, vast hangars, facilities and big planes are all nice...but far from necessary for a fjc. You might want to ask to sit in on some briefs/lessons too, to see if you like the instructors style. A much more valuable observation than people falling over on landing! I'll say this one more time: My post was a list of my observations and questions, and nowhere did I judge anyone. I came to a few conclusions based on those observations. My criteria for selection may not be yours. Just so we're ALL clear on this dynamic, here's the difference between Judgement and Opinion: OPINION: "I really don't care for that band, but you might dig it." (READ: I DON'T LIKE IT, BUT IT'S OK IF YOU DO.) JUDGEMENT: "They suck! And you suck for liking them!" (READ: THEY ARE BAD, AND SO ARE YOU.) No one I've ever met is qualified to make the second statement with any authority, myself included. My tiny sample of DZs is all I have to go on. If I'm understanding correctly, I shouldn't be reading any books, or listening to any advice given on DZ.com or Skydive Radio, or taking in any information that would possibly interfere with my training. So maybe I also shouldn't be posting, either, at least until after my first jump, and become worthy. Or will I need to have 30 minutes of FF time first? Happy Blusies, GatoT.I.N.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #25 September 27, 2006 QuoteSeriously, until proven otherwise, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. you know what? you're right ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
