And McCains VP is Palin

[Lucky... 0]

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Saying that one feels that someone is "full of shit" (as in, saying things that are unbelievable and preposterous) is a PA?

Well, if it is, I'll restate, and avoid saying it like that in the first place. I really don't see how that's a PA, though. It's not attacking the person, it's attacking the thing that was said.

I'm not looking to get banned, so if you feel attacked, I'm sorry. I just was going for what you said. Clearly, all I expressed was the emphatic equivalent of, "You guys TALK about wanting 'change,' but when it comes down to it, when change is offered, you don't actually want it, do you."

>>>>>>>>>>>>>I guess you guys are only just full of SHIT ...


My feelings aren't hurt and I suggest we go to PM and call each other names, I think it's fun so I'll let you initiate. But I see where this is going and I'm trying to do us both a favor.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I really don't see how that's a PA, though. It's not attacking the person, it's attacking the thing that was said.


The emphasis was on, "you guys" that's a PA as in it's personal. I don't care, I just don't wanna go down that road.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>"You guys TALK about wanting 'change,' but when it comes down to it, when change is offered, you don't actually want it, do you."


As for change, getting some backwoods, hillbilly, redneck 2-year governor as VP isn't change, it's incompetence and extremism. Obama is by all accounts mainstream and serious, pageant ho-bag right wing nut what's-her-name is a pathetic attempt to win. And when you realize you don't have a chance, you should do desperate things, just as with a football game with the time winding down, down 2 scores, you go for plays you normally wouldn't. I just think a more established, less radical candidate would have been more prudent. I do think the woman selection was a good idea and I want to see us get away from the WASP male president and enter the 20th century 108 years late. I think we will become more progressive once we depart from the crap we have established so long. We will have other than a WASP male in the presidency/VP.

[likearock 1]

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www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com reminds us that the State of Alaska is younger than John McCain.

Guess what? Alaska is younger than this guy as well!

[marks2065 0]

Palin has 13 years elected experience running governments from mayor to govenor. the state she is running is larger in population than 36 countries. she has taken on the oil companies and won.

Obama has 3 years in senate and over half of that has been campaining.

sounds to me Palin has alot more experience than Obama. and she has done an excelent job! can't say that abput Obama.

[FallingOsh 0]

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Obama is by all accounts mainstream

I thought he represented change. Something not mainstream. Pick an argument.

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serious, pageant ho-bag right wing nut what's-her-name is a pathetic attempt to win.

ho-bag has been married 20 years with 5 kids. not sure what your definition of ho-bag is.

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just think a more established, less radical candidate would have been more prudent.

Holy shit. Again, I thought we needed change. But now we don't. We need a more established candidate. Like Obama. Seriously, pick an argument.

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Stay positive and love your life.

[FallingOsh 0]

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It's circular, but who started the whole, "lack of experience" idiocy. Just like when Gore ran against your cokehead in 2000, it was all about the military experience. That changed when the same cokehead...

What's with the childish name calling? I despise Clinton but still referred to him as President Clinton out of respect for the office. And again with the hypocracy. Obama has admitted to repeated use of cocaine.

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Stay positive and love your life.

[Gawain 0]

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>"I think he can be ready, but right now I don’t believe he is."

Yep, said over a year ago, back when Obama had less experience in government (but still much more than Palin.) Good thing McCain chose a VP with even less than that!

Gov. Palin has five more years in elected office than Sen. Obama.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[shropshire 0]

Time in a job is not a Key Performance Indicator. It's only an indication of how many pay cheques one has received.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gawain 0]

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Time in a job is not a Key Performance Indicator. It's only an indication of how many pay cheques one has received.

No dispute there, I was merely pointing out that if people are going to try and match Sen. Obama's experience with Gov. Palin's, based on time in office, then he's still outmatched.

Now, in terms of actual performance, her record in the short time as Governor of Alaska seems to be far more impressive than Sen. Obama's "community organizing".

In terms of "boxes checked" for work/tasks completed, she's got the goods.

I've been watching the bantering on this thread and my own two-cents are as follows:

In pure political context:
She's a knock-out. Gender, ideology, accomplishment, family, convictions, executive experience all outshine her Dem-VP-nominee counterpart. The recent birth of her son, with Downs Syndrome, gives a voice for special needs families at the very top, a health care challenge far more appealing than universal care. Her appearance will take the teeth out of Sen. Biden. The press doesn't know what to do about it. It will be proof in the pudding for the feminists that wonder if they've been backing the wrong party through Sen. Clinton.

Personal observation:
I think she'll be underestimated. Certain environments allow people to see through to the bottom of things. If someone takes the time to actually listen to her, I believe she will strengthen Sen. McCain's message (and keep him "straight talk").

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[likearock 1]

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In pure political context:
She's a knock-out. Gender, ideology, accomplishment, family, convictions, executive experience all outshine her Dem-VP-nominee counterpart.

As far as ideology goes, no doubt she will help with the Republican base. On the other hand, her extreme anti-abortion views (no exceptions for rape, incest, or the mother's health) will be a serious obstacle for gaining independents, especially the Hillaryistas.

[Amazon 7]

You do have to give McCain props for learning the most fundamental lesson of a naval aviator, the ability to find attractive women and use them.

[kelpdiver 2]

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the state she is running is larger in population than 36 countries.

that's good spin! Sounds better than "the state has a smaller population than 20 US cities and is 1/10th the size of the 100th largest country." Or "ranks 47th out of 50 states."

[crwtom 0]

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a rough analogy to Sarah Palin would be Sheila Dixon, major of Balitmore, Maryland.

Balitimore and Alaska have almost the same population.
Both are women.
Both assumed office only about 20 months ago.
Both are relatively young

Smaller differences: Socio-economic problems in Baltimore are likely a lot more difficult than in Alaska, and Dixon is a bit older with a number more previous public offices.

Either way, no one to boast about.

who is boasting? ... looks like you entirely missed the point.

Even if the problems were as benin as in Alaska and Dixon was successful -- the pick as VP would be a major cause of headshaking and puzzlement.

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[shropshire 0]

Thanks for the insight.. we still don't know very much about her over here ... but the little I've heard so far makes her sound a touch extreme (way right of my centre) for my liking

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gawain 0]

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Thanks for the insight.. we still don't know very much about her over here ... but the little I've heard so far makes her sound a touch extreme (way right of my centre) for my liking

Well, sure. You're in an environment where the "center" is well left of center over here.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[shropshire 0]

Touche

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[TheAnvil 0]

You could take it further to El Jefe Clintonista...but he didn't have any military or foreign policy experience and won the election, did he?

This is really funny as hell. We've got idiots roaring about Gov. Palin's lack of experience who were recently defending Sen. Obama's lack of experience - ahd Obama has no executive experience, unlike Palin. Morons decrying Palin's lack of foreign policy experience who voted for another governor from Arkansas with no foreign policy experience a few years ago. Even a few dems are out there claiming she's there on the ticket solely because she's a beautiful woman - her accomplishments notwithstanding - so it looks like the dems have the sexist vote locked up along with their regular racist vote ($harpton, Jack$on, FarraKKKhan and their ilk)!

Yes, she's a fabulous choice. With a few years behind a mentor like McCain, just wait until she has the top job. Hehehehehe,. Oh, happy day. McCain-Palin. What a great ticket. Vice President Palin has a nice ring to it.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Lucky... 0]

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Obama is by all accounts mainstream

I thought he represented change. Something not mainstream. Pick an argument.

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serious, pageant ho-bag right wing nut what's-her-name is a pathetic attempt to win.

ho-bag has been married 20 years with 5 kids. not sure what your definition of ho-bag is.

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just think a more established, less radical candidate would have been more prudent.

Holy shit. Again, I thought we needed change. But now we don't. We need a more established candidate. Like Obama. Seriously, pick an argument.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I thought he represented change. Something not mainstream. Pick an argument.

That's why he is change, he isn't an elitist millionaire; get it?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>ho-bag has been married 20 years with 5 kids. not sure what your definition of ho-bag is.

Former pageant winner puts her as a bit of a ho bag when we're talking president.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Holy shit. Again, I thought we needed change. But now we don't. We need a more established candidate. Like Obama. Seriously, pick an argument.

Nice skewing of words, when I wrote more established, as you dishonestly diced my sentence, I was referring to a woman who was more established, as in > 2 years, perhaps a bit older, a replacement for a likely ill McSame. And a nutty radical evangelical? Why? The country doesn't want to have our morality legslated.

[Shotgun 1]

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With a few years behind a mentor like McCain, just wait until she has the top job.

So you think she'll need a few years being mentored by McCain before she's capable of handling the top job?

In any case, I'm thinking I don't want her anywhere near the top job. She seems to be way too far right for my liking.

[Lucky... 0]

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It's circular, but who started the whole, "lack of experience" idiocy. Just like when Gore ran against your cokehead in 2000, it was all about the military experience. That changed when the same cokehead...

What's with the childish name calling? I despise Clinton but still referred to him as President Clinton out of respect for the office. And again with the hypocracy. Obama has admitted to repeated use of cocaine.

Who cares, that's semantic to worry about names, I wasn't referring to anyone here. The McSame camp started the whole, "lack of experience" idiocy. I'm sure you're referred to Clinton in ugly terms, I'm over it.

I guess the denial of Bush is the worst, esp since he was in the military, kind of, flying jets as a hobby, sort of, and the Dems aren't all ass-tight with their war on things they engage in.

[Lucky... 0]

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In pure political context:
She's a knock-out. Gender, ideology, accomplishment, family, convictions, executive experience all outshine her Dem-VP-nominee counterpart.

As far as ideology goes, no doubt she will help with the Republican base. On the other hand, her extreme anti-abortion views (no exceptions for rape, incest, or the mother's health) will be a serious obstacle for gaining independents, especially the Hillaryistas.

That's my point, McSame is so right that he needed someone moderate. Just being young and semi-hot doesn't make you moderate when you act like a social Nazi.

[TheAnvil 0]

Nope - you inferred that. She's more ready than Senator Obama now, given her executive experience versus his smashing lack of it. With the extra experience, she'll be even better.

Quite billvon-esque of you.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Shotgun 1]

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Nope - you inferred that.

Yes, I did. Which is why I asked for clarification.

[Lucky... 0]

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You could take it further to El Jefe Clintonista...but he didn't have any military or foreign policy experience and won the election, did he?

This is really funny as hell. We've got idiots roaring about Gov. Palin's lack of experience who were recently defending Sen. Obama's lack of experience - ahd Obama has no executive experience, unlike Palin. Morons decrying Palin's lack of foreign policy experience who voted for another governor from Arkansas with no foreign policy experience a few years ago. Even a few dems are out there claiming she's there on the ticket solely because she's a beautiful woman - her accomplishments notwithstanding - so it looks like the dems have the sexist vote locked up along with their regular racist vote ($harpton, Jack$on, FarraKKKhan and their ilk)!

Yes, she's a fabulous choice. With a few years behind a mentor like McCain, just wait until she has the top job. Hehehehehe,. Oh, happy day. McCain-Palin. What a great ticket. Vice President Palin has a nice ring to it.

>>>>>>>>>>>>You could take it further to El Jefe Clintonista...

OMG, what's with the silly name calling.... oh,. I thought i was someone above.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...but he didn't have any military or foreign policy experience and won the election, did he?

He was traveled, but let's face, US politics are so fucked that that doesn't matter. Clinton won because Perot split the Repub vote. Obama will win because the right have fucked things up so bad, just as when Carter won. Sad but true, but people run from candidates/parties more than to candidates.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>This is really funny as hell. We've got idiots roaring about Gov. Palin's lack of experience who were recently defending Sen. Obama's lack of experience

Just as we recently had idiots, the idiots to start the rhetoric about Obama's inexperience, then pick a less experienced candidate for VP. Again, the most crucial pick here is the R VP, as McSame likely will won't make 77, his full term if he wins.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Morons decrying Palin's lack of foreign policy experience who voted for another governor from Arkansas with no foreign policy experience a few years ago.

The other morons crying about Clinton didn't realize he was a Rhodes Scholar, which obviously susbstituted for foreign experience. Remember the morons who started the lack of exp rhetoric, they have big R.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.Even a few dems are out there claiming she's there on the ticket solely because she's a beautiful woman - her accomplishments notwithstanding - so it looks like the dems have the sexist vote locked up along with their regular racist vote ($harpton, Jack$on, FarraKKKhan and their ilk)!

Who knows why she's there based upon McSame's intent. It's a radical desperate measure. The Repubs had the extreme vote locked up, they needed the swing vote, they didn't do thimgs to get it with her.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Yes, she's a fabulous choice. With a few years behind a mentor like McCain, just wait until she has the top job.

Hopefully she lives that long. And she lost the Limbaugh chauvenist (sp) vote, as that would make #2 and #3 a woman, not an issue with the left, but fatcat good ole boy GOPers won't like that.


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hehehehehe,. Oh, happy day. McCain-Palin. What a great ticket. Vice President Palin has a nice ring to it.

So does the right wing fascist nightmare is over, sound great.

[Lucky... 0]

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Nope - you inferred that. She's more ready than Senator Obama now, given her executive experience versus his smashing lack of it. With the extra experience, she'll be even better.

Quite billvon-esque of you.

He said she seems too far right. All evidence seems to support that, evangelical, anti-abortion at all costs, etc. Just not the moderate that the country is hungry for.

[shropshire 0]

I've been reading up on her and its seems like she's completely anti- choice (it that across all of her policies or just anti-abortion?).

What ever, doesn't that tend to make her un-democratic? I thought that America stands for less government intervention not more.

Confused of Europe

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome