We decended from apes and monkeys...FACT?

[Skyrad 0]

I just watched this news clip

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/itn/20080805/video/vwl-world-primates-facing-extinction-15af341.html

in which they take Darwins theory of evolution as fact. Do you feel that this piece should have been less biased towards evolution and mentioned the other side of the story with equal regard? Should evolution be the one and only accepted theory? Is it time to consign Creationism to the history books?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[BIGUN 1,062]

Is there room for "Theistic Evolutionists" in these books?

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[nerdgirl 0]

Nope.

Modern humans (H. sapiens sapiens) did not descend from apes (or monkeys or chimpanzees or bonobos; the latter two are the closest genetically). Modern humans descended from Australopithecus spp.

The evolutionary lines of chimpanzees and humans split 5-7 million years ago.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

I just watched this news clip

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/itn/20080805/video/vwl-world-primates-facing-extinction-15af341.html

in which they take Darwins theory of evolution as fact. Do you feel that this piece should have been less biased towards evolution and mentioned the other side of the story with equal regard? Should evolution be the one and only accepted theory? Is it time to consign Creationism to the history books?

What's the "other side" of this particular story?

[beowulf 1]

Due to the absence of evidence creationism should be relegated to the church, where they need no evidence. Science requires evidence. Evolution has lots of supporting evidence.

[JackC 0]

In scientific terms, evolution is the only game in town; there is no other side to the story.

[nerdgirl 0]

Quote

Is there room for "Theistic Evolutionists" in these books?

History, ethics, & philosophy books – yes, imo.

And most definitely ‘science in society’ books, e.g., the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) and the Institute of Medicine (IOM)’s “Science, Evolution, and Creationism,” (which was partially funded by your tax dollars through an independent agency created by President Lincoln).

Chapter 3 & some of the other sidebars (e.g., pp. 13-15) include comments by Pope John Paul II, the Central Conference of American Rabbis, the Presbyterian General Assembly, and the Clergy Letter Project disputing the claim that evolution is in conflict with religious belief. I’m heartened to see that minister at my church has signed the latter.

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[chuteless 1]

Perhaps you " descendents" of monkeys should take up another sport....like swinging from tree to tree.

Your evolution is a load of absolute CRAP.

Its hard to imagine so little intelligence in your minds. Who said all mean were created equal????

[idrankwhat 0]

Quote

In scientific terms, evolution is the only game in town; there is no other side to the story.

Seems to me that the story validates Darwin's theory, regardless of whether or not people think monkeys and humans are related.

[Butters 0]

It's not a fact, it's a theory.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[beowulf 1]

Ahh your back to grace us with more of your delusions!

Try bringing some evidence next time.

[billvon 2,407]

> We decended from apes and monkeys...FACT?

No. We merely share a common ancestor with them.

[MiataMan 0]

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Many scientific theories had no evidence until someone proved it right. We should not abandon a theory due to a lack of evidence. Our understanding of our world is limited.

A man without a mustache is like a hamburger without a bun, Un-American.

[billvon 2,407]

>We should not abandon a theory due to a lack of evidence.

So you think the world might be flat? (After all, the lack of evidence is not evidence it's not flat!)

[chuteless 1]

TOTAL CRAP.

[beowulf 1]

Because of the lack of evidence it is unreasonable to believe in such a theory. It's called faith. Faith is unreasonable.

[JackC 0]

Quote

TOTAL CRAP.

I'll see your "total crap" and raise you a "grade-one bullshit".

[billvon 2,407]

> TOTAL CRAP.

Sorry. A great many branches - paleontology, molecular biology, developmental biology, geology, genetics and archaeology - all agree on the basics of darwinian evolution, which is that mutation and natural selection drive changes to our phenotype through changes to our genome.

Of course, you can believe whatever you like.

[MiataMan 0]

Are you comparing a theory that was disproved, not by a lack of evidence but, by evidence that is contrary to the theory to that of my statement?

I was commenting on beowulf's comment that we can drop one theory because of lack of evidence.

A man without a mustache is like a hamburger without a bun, Un-American.

[MiataMan 0]

Quote

Because of the lack of evidence it is unreasonable to believe in such a theory. It's called faith. Faith is unreasonable.

There are many current physics and astronomical theories that have no evidence right now. We should neither abandon them nor any theory because of lack of evidence.

I agree Faith and Belief should not be used as evidence in any theory.

A man without a mustache is like a hamburger without a bun, Un-American.

[JackC 0]

Quote

Are you comparing a theory that was disproved, not by a lack of evidence but, by evidence that is contrary to the theory to that of my statement?

I was commenting on beowulf's comment that we can drop one theory because of lack of evidence.

If people been looking for supporting evidence for several millenia and found absolutley none, it's a fairly safe bet that the theory was wrong to begin with. Epsecially when a rival (and fundamentally incompatible) theory has been around for a small fraction of the time and yet has supporting evidence in spades.

Creationism only survives as a religious dogma because they haven't turned the life support machine off yet. But as a scientific theory, it is long since been declared brain-dead.

[Skwrl 56]

Nerdgirl said what I came to say, but I thought that the chimpanzees' (including the pigmy chimps') ancestral line diverged from the homo ancestral line 3 or 4 mya, and the gorilla's ancestral line diverged from the homo/chimp ancestral line more like 6 or 7mya, with the separation from the other apes' (oranutan and gibbon) ancestral line earlier. The separation between the monkey ancestral line and the ape/human ancestral line is way far back long before that.

See http://hometown.aol.com/darwinpage/famtree4.gif

My dates may be off, though, I wasn't paying much attention back then.

In simpler terms: we didn't evolve from apes. We shared a common ancestor with something that evolved into apes.

I never see why this is offensive to people. If you get past the notion that it doesn't match the descriptions in the Bible/Koran/Other Creation Story of your choice, you're left with a pretty cool story: we humans are one of the descendants of around 3.5 billion years of successes. Pretty neat, when you think of that lineage.

Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography

Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork

[beowulf 1]

It would be stupid to dedicate your whole life to a theory that has no evidence. Deitys and creationism has been around for thousands of years and in that time not one shred of evidence has been found to support them. It is unreasonable to believe in any deity or creationism. If science had a similar theory that had been around for as long and also had no evidence, it would not be taken very seriously.

[BikerBabe 0]

Quote

TOTAL CRAP.

so what's the point of science?

Bill, i'm a Christian who believes that science is one way we have of becoming closer to God. Please, continue to tell me that's crap and i'll see you for what you are.

Shall we descend into purely logical argument for a moment, then? Because we all know that logic applies so well to matters of faith, but in this case, indulge me. You know, because God gave us rational minds and all that.

1. You believe that God created the universe and all its inhabitants and everything else in it as they are. If this is incorrect, please put me to rights.

2. If God created everything, it logically follows that He created science.

3. Bill calls science "total crap", thus calling something God-created "total crap".

4. Wait, Bill thinks God is total crap???!!!

By the way, evolution (with Darwinian natural selection as the mechanism) is NOT incompatible with creation in my mind. See my little logic experiment above ;)

As for being "descended from apes"...why not read some anthropology books for once and see that we didn't descend from "apes". We descended from a common ancestor that split millions of years ago. If you seriously think evolution says that a chimp is your great grandfather, well, that just makes people laugh at you for being uninformed.

Thinkgeek.com has a great t-shirt: http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/sciencemath/9899/

but i guess DNA analysis is crap, too...

But Bill, i point you Job 38:4-7 for reproof, not from me, but from God himself:

"4 "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.

5 Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?

6 On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone-

7 while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels [a] shouted for joy?"

Surely you know? Surely...

Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Do you feel that this piece should have been less biased towards evolution and mentioned the other side of the story with equal regard?

What other side? Creationism/ID? If evolution were to be disproved tomorrow, that would not make ID any more credible. They are not competing theories. There would still be zero evidence to suggest ID to be a reasonable explanation.

Quote

Should evolution be the one and only accepted theory?

I'm not aware of any other credible scientific hypothesis explaining how we got here, so yes.

Quote

Is it time to consign Creationism to the history books?

Or religious texts. It has no place in science.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!