California Supreme Court Holds that Gay Marriage must be Allowed under the California Constitution

[skymiles 3]

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Great! I'll soon be able to marry that goat I've had my eye on. Make that several goats. No, no, no, make that several under aged goats. Slippery slope don't ya know.

Comparing same-sex marriage to beastiality is pretty lame. And it's getting pretty old too.

Sorry Shotgun, I thought the sarcasm was obvious.

[Shotgun 1]

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Yep. We're almost there now. Once they stop telling people who they can and can't marry, then your view will be true in all but name only.

Oh, I see what you meant now. I guess I just misunderstood you.

[Shotgun 1]

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Sorry Shotgun, I thought the sarcasm was obvious.

Well, I guess I misunderstood you too.

It's just such a common "argument" about same-sex marriage ("Well we might as well start letting people marry animals!") that I thought you were serious.

It's a really stupid comparison, so I'm glad you weren't serious.

[lawrocket 3]

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Do juries ever get involved in family court, or is it always just the judge?

In Cali, it's only a judge. In some states (like New York) it can go to a jury as to whether you can ev4n GET a divorce.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Great! I'll soon be able to marry that goat I've had my eye on. Make that several goats. No, no, no, make that several under aged goats. Slippery slope don't ya know.

Comparing same-sex marriage to beastiality is pretty lame. And it's getting pretty old too.

Sorry Shotgun, I thought the sarcasm was obvious.

unfortunately, there are several posters here for who the remark would be quite serious. Makes it hard to detect others's sarcasm.

The out of staters are already gearing up for the November election in response. I suspect that they're going to spend a lot of money unsuccessfully. 8 years ago the Mormons got 60% to vote for the save the marriage amendment, but that was a long time ago in the progress for gays. Some suggest that McCain has a shot of winning the state based on this issue, but I think it will be the other way around - Bush fucked CA so much over the past 2 terms that the turnout will be heavily slanted towards Obama's side.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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Another sad day for those who value morals....

I value morals, and it's not a sad day for me.

I understand that you believe it doesnt really affect you right? I think everyone should at least be held accountable for what they themselves believe to be right and wrong. It is easy to be indifferent, much harder to stand for what you really believe to be right or wrong.

The question, when it comes to morals, is not whether the country decides it is right, but what you decide. Because slowly but surely, the law is deciding the face America has in the world...they are speaking for us. Do you believe it is right for a man to marry another man? This is ultimately what the court of californias descision had to be, wrong or right. They made an open descision in the face of the world today in which the impact will be greater than what people think. I love America, I served, I love our beloved country, but it is slowly slipping away from a country which is good, to a country which is not. More to say on this....later.

"We didn't start the fire"

[Shotgun 1]

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It is easy to be indifferent, much harder to stand for what you really believe to be right or wrong.

I'm not indifferent. I'm standing for what I believe to be right.

[jcd11235 0]

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Do you believe it is right for a man to marry another man? This is ultimately what the court of californias descision had to be, wrong or right.

No, that's not what was decided. What was decided was should it be allowable to discriminate against people based on their sexual preference. The California Supreme Court happened to make a decision favoring morality and equal rights instead of homophobia and discrimination.

If "god" had a problem with homosexuality, why is homosexuality/bisexuality so widespread in the animal kingdom? If humans were "designed" by a supernatural being that is against gays, why do men have prostates?

Please, enlighten us, Ye of Many Words.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[livendive 8]

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I understand that you believe it doesnt really affect you right? I think everyone should at least be held accountable for what they themselves believe to be right and wrong. It is easy to be indifferent, much harder to stand for what you really believe to be right or wrong.

The question, when it comes to morals, is not whether the country decides it is right, but what you decide. Because slowly but surely, the law is deciding the face America has in the world...they are speaking for us. Do you believe it is right for a man
to marry another man?

You are making an unstated argument that a person has an obligation to impose their sense of right and wrong on others. I do not believe it would be "right" for ME to marry another man, but that does not mean that I should stop two men who believe differently. (Note there is a substantial distinction between right/wrong and moral/immoral) Laws should protect victims and the vulnerable. What consenting adults choose to do with each other is neither my nor your business. The government certainly should not discriminate on the basis of who people decide to commit themselves to. I'll go back to your first sentence. Everyone should be accountable for what they believe to be right and wrong. As with anything, not everyone will agree on what is right and wrong, and that's just fine. So you be held accountable for what you believe to be right and wrong, and let women who promise love, monogamy, and flannel Tuesdays with other women be accountable for their decisions too.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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Another sad day for those who value morals....

I value morals, and it's not a sad day for me.

I understand that you believe it doesnt really affect you right? I think everyone should at least be held accountable for what they themselves believe to be right and wrong. It is easy to be indifferent, much harder to stand for what you really believe to be right or wrong.

The question, when it comes to morals, is not whether the country decides it is right, but what you decide. Because slowly but surely, the law is deciding the face America has in the world...they are speaking for us. Do you believe it is right for a man to marry another man? This is ultimately what the court of californias descision had to be, wrong or right. They made an open descision in the face of the world today in which the impact will be greater than what people think. I love America, I served, I love our beloved country, but it is slowly slipping away from a country which is good, to a country which is not. More to say on this....later.

The question when it comes to homosexuality is, is it a choice or not? The truth is that no one but that person truly knows. But there is a difference in being gay and being sexually immoral. As long as there is Jesus in the country, then there will be division between those who believe it is right and those who do not. The division will be because of our beliefs, not becuase of the individual descision of those involved. Of course I am open as you all are to discuss this more, but morally, I dont believe it is right. But of course I dont believe alot of things we do are. I will say one thing. I dont believe it is right to point the immoral finger at homosexuals, if you are guilty of something else. Jesus spoke about other things as well.... "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander"

"We didn't start the fire"

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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It is easy to be indifferent, much harder to stand for what you really believe to be right or wrong.

I'm not indifferent. I'm standing for what I believe to be right.

There you go. Im assuming your homosexual?

"We didn't start the fire"

[Nightingale 0]

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It is easy to be indifferent, much harder to stand for what you really believe to be right or wrong.

I'm not indifferent. I'm standing for what I believe to be right.

There you go. Im assuming your homosexual?

If I recall correctly, Shotgun (female) is happily married to her husband (male).

You don't have to be gay to support equal rights for everyone.

[Casurf1978 0]

How are we slipping away? What the Ca supreme court basically said was that it is NOT ok to discriminate against sexual orientation and that to do so is equivalent, under the Cali constitution, to racial discrimination. Is that such a bad idea. Should sexual orientation dictate what rights a person has or doesn't have.

[Shotgun 1]

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If I recall correctly, Shotgun (female) is happily married to her husband (male).

You don't have to be gay to support equal rights for everyone.

Yes.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I swear people never look at the brighter side of things. Just think. now they'll all be registered! And all for what? A tax break,a certificate, and potential to lose half of one's wealth? And no I'm not cynical at all about marriage.

What tax break? Dual income couples with similar pay an average of over $1100 more in taxes than if they were single.

The higher tax brackets aren't double a single person's, one partner can't itemize while the other takes the standard deduction, a partner with less income can become ineligible for things like the eduction tax credits, at higher incomes the exemptions and deductions don't phase out at twice the income of a single person, you can only subtract $3000 of capital losses drom ordinary income as a married couple versus $6000 when living in sin....

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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Do you believe it is right for a man to marry another man? This is ultimately what the court of californias descision had to be, wrong or right.

No, that's not what was decided. What was decided was should it be allowable to discriminate against people based on their sexual preference. The California Supreme Court happened to make a decision favoring morality and equal rights instead of homophobia and discrimination.

Ok, first of all, no matter what anyone says, if someone disagrees with someone else, there will always be division, unless we understand that it is simply ok to disagree. Which is basically what I am assuming everyone is telling me now. I dont make a judgment on anyone, but I still believe it should remain morally not right.

What someone believes to be civally right does not mean that it is morally right. Now, we can stay in these threads for the next 50 years explaining why we think things are right or wrong, but that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that cival liberties shouldnt have anything to do with sexual orientation. This is only my opinion. Discriminating on color, race, or sex, is not the same as discriminating against sexual orientation. But the law has taken a moral issue (with much of the country and the world) and covered it under a cival rights issue. On top of that, they passed a law making what they did ok. In my opinion, it should remain wrong, morally, whether or not people decide to do it is up to them. For those who beilieve this wont affect them or their children, I disagree. Homosexuality has brought shame to the hearts of many people who have been caught up in its lie. Most homosexuals I have talked to, always say they wish they werent this way. Again, this is ony my opinion and observation.

"We didn't start the fire"

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[chinagirl 0]

***The question when it comes to homosexuality is, is it a choice or not? The truth is that no one but that person truly knows. But there is a difference in being gay and being sexually immoral. As long as there is Jesus in the country, then there will be division between those who believe it is right and those who do not. The division will be because of our beliefs, not becuase of the individual descision of those involved. Of course I am open as you all are to discuss this more, but morally, I dont believe it is right. But of course I dont believe alot of things we do are. I will say one thing. I dont believe it is right to point the immoral finger at homosexuals, if you are guilty of something else. Jesus spoke about other things as well.... "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander"

Dude, Jesus was gay. Otherwise, why surround himself with 12 male disciples and then have an institution created to protect his students from prosecution for sexually abusing the altar boys. Talk about immoral...I think there is something wrong with your "beliefs"!!

It is a day for celebration when this great country continues to stand for FREEDOM!!

~Built for Abuse
www.skydivethefarm.com

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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It is easy to be indifferent, much harder to stand for what you really believe to be right or wrong.

I'm not indifferent. I'm standing for what I believe to be right.

There you go. Im assuming your homosexual?

Well, I feel like an absolute moron. Extremely embarassed. I thought I saw a post a while back saying that she was gay and married. I really wish I could discern when people were being sarcastic...No, I guess your right, you dont have to be gay to support same sex marriages. But again, because of this moral division, there will always be this "uncomfortable annoyance". Just as you support, as it is your right, I dont, as that is my right, there really shouldnt be a division of heart.

If I recall correctly, Shotgun (female) is happily married to her husband (male).

You don't have to be gay to support equal rights for everyone.

"We didn't start the fire"

[chinagirl 0]

***What someone believes to be civally right does not mean that it is morally right. Now, we can stay in these threads for the next 50 years explaining why we think things are right or wrong, but that is not what I am saying. What I am saying is that cival liberties shouldnt have anything to do with sexual orientation. This is only my opinion. Discriminating on color, race, or sex, is not the same as discriminating against sexual orientation. But the law has taken a moral issue (with much of the country and the world) and covered it under a cival rights issue. On top of that, they passed a law making what they did ok. In my opinion, it should remain wrong, morally, whether or not people decide to do it is up to them. For those who beilieve this wont affect them or their children, I disagree. Homosexuality has brought shame to the hearts of many people who have been caught up in its lie. Most homosexuals I have talked to, always say they wish they werent this way. Again, this is ony my opinion and observation.

[billvon 2,433]

>Do you believe it is right for a man to marry another man?

In the 1950's, a US court had this to say about whether it was right for a black to marry a white:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, Malay and red, and He placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with His arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that He separated the races shows that He did not intend for the races to mix."

The US Supreme Court finally struck down that decision, and I think we can all agree we are better off because of it.

Today we are facing a similar decision. One can argue that gay marriages are "unnatural" - certainly as unnatural (if not more so) than interracial marriages, although you wouldn't have known it in the 1950's. But history has shown that we tend towards giving people the freedom to make their own way through life, and to love the people they want to love even if we wouldn't make the same choices.

I don't think it's right for a man to marry a man. I don't think it's wrong for a man to marry a man. I wouldn't do it. But decisions I make for myself are just that, and should not be laws.

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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***The question when it comes to homosexuality is, is it a choice or not? The truth is that no one but that person truly knows. But there is a difference in being gay and being sexually immoral. As long as there is Jesus in the country, then there will be division between those who believe it is right and those who do not. The division will be because of our beliefs, not becuase of the individual descision of those involved. Of course I am open as you all are to discuss this more, but morally, I dont believe it is right. But of course I dont believe alot of things we do are. I will say one thing. I dont believe it is right to point the immoral finger at homosexuals, if you are guilty of something else. Jesus spoke about other things as well.... "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander"

Dude, Jesus was gay. Otherwise, why surround himself with 12 male disciples and then have an institution created to protect his students from prosecution for sexually abusing the altar boys. Talk about immoral...I think there is something wrong with your "beliefs"!!

It is a day for celebration when this great country continues to stand for FREEDOM!!

Tell me, how far are we supposed to let those freedoms go? All the way? Why have any laws then? Why not just anyone do whatever they want? Dont you see that the more we say yes, without any concern with whats morally right, the more laws we recieve protecting those "freedoms". We wonder where all these wierd little laws are coming from? Thinking just like that.... Forgive me, but if you believe there is something wrong with my beliefs, it is because you believe yours to be right. I believe that is the issue?
anyway, I have way overstepped my boundaries here....Very sorry to everyone, I was just throwing out some serious thoughts (surely mixed with more opinion that I would have liked), but, I am far from perfect.

"We didn't start the fire"

[likearock 1]

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It is easy to be indifferent, much harder to stand for what you really believe to be right or wrong.

I'm not indifferent. I'm standing for what I believe to be right.

There you go. Im assuming your homosexual?

If I recall correctly, Shotgun (female) is happily married to her husband (male).

You don't have to be gay to support equal rights for everyone.

But see, this goes back to the earlier question of why people prefer Eastern religions to Western ones. The Western religions, including Christianity, spend too much time telling us what not to do. Eastern religions, by contrast, are more concerned with showing us a path to enlightenment that doesn't impose a moral judgment on every other thing. No matter how much these guys spout about Jesus' love, in the end it all comes down to follow the rules or you go to hell.

[chinagirl 0]

*** Forgive me, but if you believe there is something wrong with my beliefs, it is because you believe yours to be right. I believe that is the issue?

[jcd11235 0]

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Do you believe it is right for a man to marry another man? This is ultimately what the court of californias descision had to be, wrong or right.

No, that's not what was decided. What was decided was should it be allowable to discriminate against people based on their sexual preference. The California Supreme Court happened to make a decision favoring morality and equal rights instead of homophobia and discrimination.

I still believe it should remain morally not right.

Interesting claim considering you conveniently didn't answer my questions pertaining to god and homosexuality.

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What I am saying is that cival liberties shouldnt have anything to do with sexual orientation. This is only my opinion.

Agreed. People should have exactly the same civil liberties regardless of their sexual orientation.

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Discriminating on color, race, or sex, is not the same as discriminating against sexual orientation.

And here you completely contradict your previous claim. So you think it's okay to be bigoted based on sexual orientation, as long as you aren't bigoted with regard to color, race or sex? Interesting and quite telling.

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But the law has taken a moral issue (with much of the country and the world) and covered it under a cival rights issue. On top of that, they passed a law making what they did ok.

Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. What law was passed?

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In my opinion, it should remain wrong, morally, whether or not people decide to do it is up to them.

Just as I feel it is morally wrong to be a religious fundamentalist, but I don't believe that in itself justifies prison sentences.

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For those who beilieve this wont affect them or their children, I disagree. Homosexuality has brought shame to the hearts of many people who have been caught up in its lie.

I have to call bullshit. I've lived in a few cities with higher than average GLBT populations, as well as being raised in the belt buckle of the bible belt. If anything, the diversity is good for kids. Being around gays doesn't make people gay any more than being around cancer victims causes cancer.

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Most homosexuals I have talked to, always say they wish they werent this way.

So basically, you understand and acknowledge that being gay is not a choice (i.e. God made gay people gay, from a creationist perspective).

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[rynodigsmusic 0]

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>Do you believe it is right for a man to marry another man?

In the 1950's, a US court had this to say about whether it was right for a black to marry a white:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, Malay and red, and He placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with His arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that He separated the races shows that He did not intend for the races to mix."

>>>See, I didnt know that, but then again, where is that written in the bible? Thats demonic rhetoric forged by ignorance and fear. Of course I have hinesight and i grew up in the city, but, how could any preacher just let that go???

The US Supreme Court finally struck down that decision, and I think we can all agree we are better off because of it.

Today we are facing a similar decision. One can argue that gay marriages are "unnatural" - certainly as unnatural (if not more so) than interracial marriages, although you wouldn't have known it in the 1950's. But history has shown that we tend towards giving people the freedom to make their own way through life, and to love the people they want to love even if we wouldn't make the same choices.

>>>I agree. I just dont see the similarities of same sex marriages and interacial marriages, morally that is. I do however see your point, that it seems this is something that will take 60 years or less (or more) for America to accept. Forgive me, but I disagree with that. I think the impact of this is going to be much more profound than that of interacial marriages.

I don't think it's right for a man to marry a man. I don't think it's wrong for a man to marry a man. I wouldn't do it. But decisions I make for myself are just that, and should not be laws.

"We didn't start the fire"