kallend 1,646
It's unfortunate that this fellow has only dealt with angry Christians. A true believer would never wish hell on anyone, but would pray for his change of heart, and be available to provide guidance. His study of Christianity is flawed. We are not born into debt to Christ. Quite the opposite. All debts are paid. Regret and self loathing for true Christians is a thing of the past, but something most people still struggle with at times. This chap does seem angry and wants to provoke Christians, and maybe that's why he gets - or maybe perceives - more anger. Jesus was a servant. His whole life, he served others. On the week of his death, he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey, not on a gallant horse as a king or conqueror would. There is a lot of written evidence of His life, from the Jews, from the Romans, and from the Greeks. Not just the Bible. If you simply rely on your intellect and your senses and you don't believe in God, nothing I can say will change your mind, but it may plant a seed that only God can cultivate in your heart. C.S. Lewis was a devout athiest who became a most noted Christian apologist. He was converted back to Christianity by JRR Tolkien. Both learned, intelligent, tallented men. I'm not angry that you are an athiest. I don't like being attacked or belittled because I am a Christian but I understand it. I find it interesting that I am posting this on a forum. Emails, the web, and forums are sterile places to post ideas. Christianity is about loving, serving relationships. Best cultivated where people laugh, eat, live, and love. I see miracles every day.
The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.
Hausse 0
QuoteIf you simply rely on your intellect and your senses and you don't believe in God, nothing I can say will change your mind
So wait, let me get this straight. Was this actually an argument for Christianity!?
gjhdiver 0
QuoteIt's unfortunate that this fellow has only dealt with angry Christians .
Sorry dude, I'll put my faith in science and reason. You can keep your imaginary friend.
Zenister 0
QuoteWe are not born into debt to Christ. Quite the opposite. All debts are paid.
Christians assume a 'debt' needed to be paid in the first. They are mistaken.
There is and has never been any debt. The assumption that there is/was, is the fundamental flaw in the entire christian argument.
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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
Zenister 0
Quote
If you want SILLY, I contend that believing in and worshipping an invisible supernatural being without a shred of supporting evidence trumps everything else.
For me, the evidence, God exists, is everywhere.
once again someone of 'faith' uses the word 'evidence' in a manner that it does not support.
there is no Evidence of any 'God' anywhere. What you refer to as 'evidence' is merely the Desire to find meaning in that which is not understood.
QuoteHow can you be so certain that the energy that comprises our consciousness will just be snuffed out at our death. You have no evidence for that.
this is a strawman argument often brought out by christians. No one is claiming that your energy is 'snuffed out'. It only changes forms.
The massive iceberg that melts into the sea and eventually evaporates into the atmosphere still exists, but it is no longer in the shape it once was. Your 'consciousness' is no different.
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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.
JackC 0
QuoteA true believer would never wish hell on anyone, but would pray for his change of heart, and be available to provide guidance.
That's one of the annoying things about "true christians", they automatically think atheists need to have their hearts changed.
jakee 1,257
QuoteYou know matter and energy can change but never be destroyed. How can you be so certain that the energy that comprises our consciousness will just be snuffed out at our death.
That's a pretty dumb use of the word energy.
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
beowulf 1
QuoteIf you simply rely on your intellect and your senses and you don't believe in God, nothing I can say will change your mind
The problem with not relying on your intellect and senses is that it opens you up to being fooled and tricked. Anything else is arbitrary at best. Relying on feelings is very unreliable. You feel that there is a god and you faith in that feeling, but you don't actually know that there is a god.
jakee 1,257
QuoteQuoteIf you simply rely on your intellect and your senses and you don't believe in God, nothing I can say will change your mind
The problem with not relying on your intellect and senses is that it opens you up to being fooled and tricked. Anything else is arbitrary at best. Relying on feelings is very unreliable. You feel that there is a god and you faith in that feeling, but you don't actually know that there is a god.
Are you questioning the truthiness of his claims? Learn to go with your gut!
Do you want to have an ideagasm?
beowulf 1
Oh I am sorry did I question the mysterious ways of God Almighty?!
Should I be waiting to be struck by lightning?
QuoteThe problem with not relying on your intellect and senses is that it opens you up to being fooled and tricked.
True, and there are countless examples of that. Maybe better words would be ...rely only on your intellect and your senses..... Many defenders of Christianity, including CS Lewis, don't exclude intellect or sensuality from their writings. I believe that there are things that science, as we think we know it, can't explain.
The forecast is mostly sunny with occasional beer.
beowulf 1
There are lots of things that science can't explain. That doesn't invalidate it. Science is a method for exploring the world around us. Science is based on critical thinking and logic. Faith has no logic.
That doesn't mean there is no place for spirituality. Spirituality exists, but science is not useful for exploring it.
The statement "I weigh 65 kilograms" is scientifically verifiable.
The statement "I love my daughter" is not.
There are some areas where science is useful and some areas where it is not. That doesn't mean those other areas are not real, just that the parameters of science are irrelevant to them.
The statement "I weigh 65 kilograms" is scientifically verifiable.
The statement "I love my daughter" is not.
There are some areas where science is useful and some areas where it is not. That doesn't mean those other areas are not real, just that the parameters of science are irrelevant to them.
Speed Racer
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Bingo! Well said.
steveOrino
steveOrino
beowulf 1
Spirituality is an imagined concept. Feelings can be scientifically measured. Love is a feeling.
Lookup brain waves or patterns.
Lookup brain waves or patterns.
For me, the evidence, God exists, is everywhere. There is so much "empirical evidence" yet to be collected, that it is nothing short of insane to make broad sweeping conclusions about absolute reality based on what little we currently know. You know matter and energy can change but never be destroyed. How can you be so certain that the energy that comprises our consciousness will just be snuffed out at our death. You have no evidence for that.
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We don't have to prove negatives. Your beliefs are totally devoid of all objective, testable evidence.
The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.