The Golden Compass

[mamajumps 0]

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> My kids will not see the movie or read the books.

FYI, when I was in high school (around age 13 or so) we were forbidden to see the Life of Brian. It was anti-catholic, anti-christian, immoral etc. The school sent a letter home to my parents - and THEY told me I shouldn't see it.

As a result, every single kid I knew in high school saw it. It was the height of dorkiness to be one of the kids who obeyed the school's silly ultimatums.

So raise your kids however you choose - but be aware that making a big deal out of the movie/books, and forbidding them to see it, will virtually guarantee they will both see the movie and think it's a big deal.

I appreciate your insight and remember being a kid too, and remember doing all the things my parents said I could not do. I was quite the rebel as a kid. However, why I could not or should not do those things was never explained. That is one that I have changed about the way I parent. I take the time to explain why I have made my decisions. Also, all my kids have been in church since birth. They have also heard they reasons why they should not see this movie from their sunday school leaders and youth pastor. My kids are more grounded in their faith than I am. Thats the only thing that I know I have done right as a parent.

[Shotgun 1]

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They have also heard they reasons why they should not see this movie from their sunday school leaders and youth pastor.

And, if you don't mind my asking, what are those reasons?

[mamajumps 0]

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I can understand Jaye not wanting to line the guy's pockets, but I don't understand not using it as an opportunity to talk with and educate a child.

If one of your kids wants to read the book, have you considered getting it from the library (thus you have given no money to the author), let them read it, and be open to any discussion that results?

I am not Christian, do not believe in a Christian God, but I do respect other belief systems, and fully intend on encouraging my children to explore Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and other belief systems for themselves. I would rather they talk with me about it, ask their questions, be open with my own beliefs and those of others than to be brainwashed into only one way of thinking (my own).

My mindset isn't too far different than Pullman's, so I'm guessing that Jaye and Mamajumps wouldn't let me anywhere near their kids... which is too bad, I'm a good person, live a very giving and generous life. Most who know me consider me a good role model.

As Jaye and I both stated in our posts, we both have friends of various religous and non-religous beliefs. I don't have any issues with my friends and what they choose to believe as long as they don't try to impose their beliefs on me and my kids. I would not talk about my beliefs unless they invited me to do so, its a respect thing. I heard a quote one time and really wish I could find the author, becuase it (too me) is very powerful. The quote is: "I would rather live life believing in God only to find out in the end that He doesn't exist rather than to live life not believing in Him to find out in the end that He does exist." That pretty much sums it up for me.... PS, Jen, I think you are a great person with a lot of neat insight and values. I hope to meet you one day and jump with you.

[mamajumps 0]

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They have also heard they reasons why they should not see this movie from their sunday school leaders and youth pastor.

And, if you don't mind my asking, what are those reasons?

The same reasons that have been stated here, that Pullman is a devout atheist who is trying to teach the kids of the world that there is no Christ or that He is a false prophet.

[billvon 2,400]

>I take the time to explain why I have made my decisions.

Years later my parents told me that they did the same thing. But for some reason I never heard it as a kid. I just heard "don't do it."

What reason did you give your children to not see it?

[peregrinerose 0]

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PS, Jen, I think you are a great person with a lot of neat insight and values. I hope to meet you one day and jump with you.

That's because we're myspace friends, and that's like deep, or something Don't worry, I've never discussed theology with kids uninvited by the parent and I've never tried to convince anyone to believe (or not believe) anything. People need to follow their guts, what feels right to them, when it comes to philosophy and theology. Since we're all different, I don't see any problem with taking different paths to being the best people we can be.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[nerdgirl 0]

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On one hand, I’m not aware of anyone calling for death sentences for Pullman.

You are now.

Ugh ... thanks for the additional information as saddening and disheartening as it is.

If the allegations are true, does anyone want to argue that such actions emulate the behavior or teachings of Christ?

For those who don't click through:

"Nicole Kidman and Daniel Craig, along with the rest of the cast of the new film ‘Golden Compass’ have been been receiving death threats from religious zealots.

"The zealots have been sending hate mail through the post, says an insider. 'The amount of hate mail has been unbelievable. There have been death threats. Most of the backlash has been aimed at Pullman but even the cast has had their fair share of abuse.'

"And '007'; star Daniel, 39 – who plays the character of Lord Asriel in the movie – says he can’t understand why it’s being targeted.

"He told Britain’s Daily Star Sunday newspaper: 'I think the majority of people criticizing it haven’t read it.

"'These books are not anti-religious. Mainly they’re anti-misuse of power – religious or political.'"

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[billvon 2,400]

>So they can boycott all they want; people will still think for themselves.

A great many will not, unfortunately. There are people out there who belong to a given religion primarily because they have been exposed to no other. From the perspective of a religion trying to retain members, "allowing" these people to see a movie like this is a strategic mistake.

[Shotgun 1]

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They have also heard they reasons why they should not see this movie from their sunday school leaders and youth pastor.

And, if you don't mind my asking, what are those reasons?

The same reasons that have been stated here, that Pullman is a devout atheist who is trying to teach the kids of the world that there is no Christ or that He is a false prophet.

So it's because the movie might teach them something that would contradict what your church has been teaching them?

Do you also forbid them from reading books about Islam or other religions that would contradict your church's teachings?

(I promise I'm not trying to be confrontational here. I'm really just trying to understand.)

[jakee 1,255]

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Ugh ... thanks for the additional information as saddening and disheartening as it is.

No probs. I hadn't actually heard anything like that being reported on the news but I did a quick google after I read your post and that was the first thing that popped up.

To be fair though, in todays world it seems that death threats are pretty much part and parcel of being involved with any kind of mildly provocative entertainment, no matter who or what is being poked. Still, for sheer volume of threats I'd wager it's hard to beat the god botherers.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Shotgun 1]

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>So they can boycott all they want; people will still think for themselves.

A great many will not, unfortunately. There are people out there who belong to a given religion primarily because they have been exposed to no other.

That doesn't necessarily mean that they're not thinking for themselves. (I had never been exposed to another religion when I decided that I didn't believe in Christianity.) Perhaps they've thought about it and decided that they don't want to be exposed to another religion.

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From the perspective of a religion trying to retain members, "allowing" these people to see a movie like this is a strategic mistake.

Yep. So of course they are going to try to discourage it.

[jakee 1,255]

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The same reasons that have been stated here, that Pullman is a devout atheist who is trying to teach the kids of the world that there is no Christ or that He is a false prophet.

It's interesting you say that, since out of all the religious philosophy and power structures dealt with in the books, any mention of Jesus is conspicuous by its absence!

Original sin, check. Rebellion of angels, check. Corrupted and authoritarian church a la the inquisition, check. Jesus, nada.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[rehmwa 2]

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I made the choice to go see Narnia.. and found it a wonderful movie in spite of all the hype about religion.. and enjoyed it for what it was.. ENTERTAINMENT.

I made the choice to go see The Golden Compass.. and found it a wonderful movie in spite of all the hype about religion.. and enjoyed it for what it was.. ENTERTAINMENT.........


Both movies entertained me and I look forward to the next installment for either.

Jeanne has got the right of it. We are going to see Compass because it looks neat and entertaining.

I might not understand exactly why a parent would keep their kids from certain movies or books. But I'm not raising their kids so I don't much care - most people do just fine without the interference or judgment. Heck their kids aren't even in my "village". It's even more fun when people without kids go crazy about that.

as far as nutjobs? they are always there

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[billvon 2,400]

>That doesn't necessarily mean that they're not thinking for themselves.

Well, to be more accurate, they may be thinking for themselves but have not much to think about in terms of alternatives.

>Perhaps they've thought about it and decided that they don't want to be
>exposed to another religion.

That may well be true - but in my experience people don't generally choose ignorance when they have a choice. (Perhaps it's just selection bias.)

[Darius11 12]

(Not at you rehmwa)

I think people should raise there children the way they wish, and I give them credit for being open about there feelings knowing they would get attacked by the all knowing ones in SC.


I find it extremely funny that the ones with no faith are so sure that there is no god, and speak to the people with faith as if they are idiots. Mean while neither side have any real evidence of what they claim.

Faith or no faith is a personal issue, and for anyone to claim they have the higher or smarter road is simply idiotic. We will know when we die so to each there own.


Personly I used to listen to Slayer when I was 11 and I have faith, but I also had friends who took the lyrics literally and got way to in too dark side of things.

People are different so are children. That’s why the parents bare the responsibility of bringing them up the way they choose. Every child is different and requires a different approach.


I have not seen the movie or read the books yet but my philosophy does not change. I believe in leave me the fuck alone and I will leave you the fuck alone. Good philosophy I know.

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[Shotgun 1]

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>That doesn't necessarily mean that they're not thinking for themselves.

Well, to be more accurate, they may be thinking for themselves but have not much to think about in terms of alternatives.

True. I guess my point was that you don't have to have many alternatives to think for yourself regarding a certain religion. Either you believe it or you don't. But yeah, having exposure to many different ideas would provide more to think about.

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>Perhaps they've thought about it and decided that they don't want to be
>exposed to another religion.

That may well be true - but in my experience people don't generally choose ignorance when they have a choice. (Perhaps it's just selection bias.)

Right, but in the case of religion, they may not see it as ignorance but rather respect for their own god (not looking elsewhere for other gods).

I don't know. I personally like to hear as many different ideas as possible, but I can understand that that doesn't work for everyone.

[livendive 8]

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But I only had to read one book to decide that I didn't believe in Christianity, and that book was the Bible. So they can boycott all they want; regrettably few people will still think for themselves.

Fixed it for ya.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[livendive 8]

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They have also heard they reasons why they should not see this movie from their sunday school leaders and youth pastor.

And, if you don't mind my asking, what are those reasons?

The same reasons that have been stated here, that Pullman is a devout atheist who is trying to teach the kids of the world that there is no Christ or that He is a false prophet.

Or maybe he's just an author, hoping to make a couple books by entertaining us.

Here's what I think about controversial subjects (not that you asked for it). As in any debate, consideration of alternate perspectives can do one of three things, strengthen previously held beliefs, not affect previously held beliefs, or weaken previously held beliefs. Why would a parent be concerned that the latter is what would occur if their child was exposed to opposing views?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[skysprite 0]

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...I heard a quote one time and really wish I could find the author, becuase it (too me) is very powerful. The quote is: "I would rather live life believing in God only to find out in the end that He doesn't exist rather than to live life not believing in Him to find out in the end that He does exist." That pretty much sums it up for me.... ...

That quote says to me that your faith isn't faith based, but is in fact fear based, yes?

~skysprite

[Shotgun 1]

I was just checking the showtimes to see when this movie is on (which I might not have done without all the attention it's been getting! ;-), and I came across this review:

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Take it from this Sunday School teacher: If your faith is so fragile that it cannot engage in a discussion about the virtue of free will and the potential abuse of power, this movie/book isn't for you. The irony being, of course, such close-mindedness is exactly what the author fears will be the downfall of mankind. If you can engage in the debate, however, you might find your faith strengthened by realizing you couldn't have true faith without freedom of thought. (Witness our frustrations with extremist versions of Sharia law.)

The film's moral is relatively simplistic: A society's populace must be vigilant to ensure the governing authority is honest and just, as those with power often fear its loss and will often fight to preserve their power. And as history has shown us religious institutions are not immune to this. In this case, a pseudo-religious/governing agency known as The Magesterium is working to maintain their power within a developing society. Questioning authority isn't smiled upon, so when a young girl arises as potential usurper to their status by revealing other truths about the world, the Maegesterium's Mrs. Coulter (Nicole Kidman) acts to ensure that doesn't happen.

That the story takes place in a fantasy realm doesn't diminish its relevancy to the real world. What it does, however, is reduce the debate to its core, as any and all commentary about faith and organized religion is not confined to Christianity, Judaism, Islam or so forth. The quest ultimately is about how each person should be allowed to make their own discoveries and choices about life (and, to wit, faith). Without this option we are in fact soulless, reduced to puppets merely doing the will of another master. Being so young the heroine hasn't the pretext to understand the force at play in her quest, she only knows that certain factions seek to support her, and others seek to control her. Reduced to her to animal instincts just to survive, she unveils both the best and worst aspects of human nature.

True faith cannot be achieved without an understanding of one's god and their beliefs. These beliefs cannot be achieved without learning and, most importantly, asking questions. Concepts should never be taken to heart if they are accepted blindly. As such, I hope people will not presume to judge this story as a matter of blind faith.

[rehmwa 2]

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(Not at you rehmwa)

I wish it was, it was a very good post and I'd like to comment:

+1

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Amazon 7]

I think I've figured out what the problem is...

[peregrinerose 0]

Ok, I was curious, so did some digging.

http://www.philip-pullman.com/about_the_author.asp Is the author's blurb about who he is, why he writes, his philosophy, etc.

Someone here quoted him as saying that his goal is to talk kids out of Christianity... not true... what he said was actually in an interview. The interviewer asked him what C.S. Lewis would say of Pullman's writing. Pullman replied that CS would say that he is trying to get kids away from Christianity. The quote was taken completely out of context.

Here's a discussion between him an an archbishop of England, I found interesting http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2004/03/17/bodark17.xml

And, he's not even a true athiest http://www.surefish.co.uk/culture/features/pullman_interview.htm The man is a writer, not really big on labels. He sounds more agnostic than athiest to me, and aqually quite humble in realizing just how little he knows of the world and possibility of God.

I read some of his commentaries on the Narnia series and found them quite thought provoking. He stated in several of them that it's not the Christian themes that he had a problem with, but the lack of Christian values (primarily love) that was expressed. His comparisons between Lyra (Golden Compass) and Susan in Narnia was interesting too. I hadn't read either book with some of the things he pointed out in mind, makes me want to go re-read both and see some of these perspectives that I missed. http://www.crlamppost.org/darkside.htm

I actually had a blast entertaining myself at work between patients reading some of his commentaries and interviews. He's an extremely intelligent man, good writer, and although I disagree with him on some things, overall, he made me think. And isn't that a good thing?

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[SkyDekker 1,123]

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and although I disagree with him on some things, overall, he made me think. And isn't that a good thing?

Not if you are running an organized religion. In that case you just want people to listen, believe and above all open their wallets.

[Squeak 17]

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I am comfortable with my beliefs enough to read the book and enev enjoy the book.

The issue lies in those that have young children who ther are trying to teach their faith nd having a CHILDREN'S book come along and directly speak aganst that. There lies the issue. Talk about confusing a kid.

Kids aren't equipped to handle all that.

OH YES THEY ARE what is required here is parenting skills that inform their kids to learn to view things with an open mind, and to promote critical reasoning, very young kids can do this well when exposed to a variety of inputs, kids with dogmatic narrow minded influences tend to not do it too well.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
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