I just drove past my local Home Depot

[Andy9o8 0]

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Ironically, the closest anyone comes to that is Andy, who used "fucking spics". And that's ironic because he was someone trying to accuse others of racism. So you just add to that irony yourself, because now two people who have accused others of racism, are themselves the ones using the derogatory terms for the illegal aliens. Ha!

Sigh. John, please. Even a trained chimp can see how you've twisted this on its head.

[cloudseeker2001 0]

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legal immigrants are completely different than illegals

Due to the nearly arbitrary ways--people call it a lottery for good reason--in which we've tightened immigration, the distinction is not nearly as clear as it seems.

If we could magically enforce all the immigration laws on our books today it would decimate the economy.

There are clearly undesirables among the mix of illegal immigrants, as there are criminals among our "legal" citizenry. Criminals among illegal immigrants do not justify wholesale deportations of the people whose illegal migration supports our economy, any more than the criminals among us citizens justify locking up the rest of us.

You seem to have changed your tune a little.
And I still completely disagree with you. The very act of person being in this country as an illegal, makes that person is a criminal.

"Some call it heavenly in it's brilliance,
others mean and rueful of the western dream"

[kallend 1,666]

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Any of you people what TIG stands for w/o googling it?

Yes, I've even used a TIG welder on my antique car.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 0]

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The very act of person being in this country as an illegal, makes that person is a criminal.

Sometimes true; sometimes false.

If a non-citizen enters the US without the lawful permission of immigration authorities, then the entry itself is a criminal violation of the Immigration and Naturalization Act for which he can be criminally prosecuted.

But if a non-citizen enters the US legally, but then remains after he's no longer authorized to remain (for example, he overstays his visa), that continued illegal presence is a civil violation of the INA, for which he can be deported, but it is not a crime.

So while it's true that all illegal immigrants are illegal (duh), not all illegal immigrants are criminals.

[normiss 635]

when taught to use one..."TITS!!! It's GAS!!!

[masterrig 1]

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The very act of person being in this country as an illegal, makes that person is a criminal.

Sometimes true; sometimes false.

If a non-citizen enters the US without the lawful permission of immigration authorities, then the entry itself is a criminal violation of the Immigration and Naturalization Act for which he can be criminally prosecuted.

But if a non-citizen enters the US legally, but then remains after he's no longer authorized to remain (for example, he overstays his visa), that continued illegal presence is a civil violation of the INA, for which he can be deported, but it is not a crime.

So while it's true that all illegal immigrants are illegal (duh), not all illegal immigrants are criminals.

Unless, the laws have been changed, you might want to re-read the I&NS laws. It is not a 'criminal offense', to enter this country illegally. Illegals are 'apprehended' not 'arrested'. They are not breaking civil law, they are violating Immigration law.


Chuck

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Unless, the laws have been changed, you might want to re-read the I&NS laws. It is not a 'criminal offense', to enter this country illegally. Illegals are 'apprehended' not 'arrested'. They are not breaking civil law, they are violating Immigration law...

It does appear to be a criminal offense: a misdemeanor on the first offense; a felony on the second or subsequent offense:

http://www.cairco.org/legal/legal.html

8 U.S.C. 1325 - Improper Entry by Alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts; Any alien who -

(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or

(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or

(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under Title 18, or imprisoned not more than two years or both.

The subtle distinction here seems to be that being in the country illegally is a civil matter, while entering illegally is a criminal matter. Generally people apprehended along the border have not been charged criminally in the past, but lately it seems that prosecutors are getting tougher and are sometimes prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[masterrig 1]

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Unless, the laws have been changed, you might want to re-read the I&NS laws. It is not a 'criminal offense', to enter this country illegally. Illegals are 'apprehended' not 'arrested'. They are not breaking civil law, they are violating Immigration law...

It does appear to be a criminal offense: a misdemeanor on the first offense; a felony on the second or subsequent offense:

http://www.cairco.org/legal/legal.html

8 U.S.C. 1325 - Improper Entry by Alien

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts; Any alien who -

(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or

(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or

(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under Title 18 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under Title 18, or imprisoned not more than two years or both.

The subtle distinction here seems to be that being in the country illegally is a civil matter, while entering illegally is a criminal matter. Generally people apprehended along the border have not been charged criminally in the past, but lately it seems that prosecutors are getting tougher and are sometimes prosecuting to the fullest extent of the law.

I appreciate your posting that. Thanks!


Chuck

[nathaniel 0]

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The very act of person being in this country as an illegal, makes that person is a criminal.

I get your point: immigration should be illegal because it is illegal.

Way to distinguish premise from conclusion there, Socrates.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[freethefly 6]

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The impression I'm getting is that you feel entitled to a high wage for a comparably simple to learn task

I can teach someone to tig in less than an hour. You're right, it is not that hard to learn how to make a simple weld. It is hard to make certification welds. There is far more to doing pressure vessel than there is to sticking two pieces of metal together. What do you know about pre-heating and control cooling? What rod do you use on any given schedule pipe? What grade is the pipe? A? B? C? Do you know that there is a certian way to start and end a weld so not to produce a defect. Undercut any part of the toe and it is a bad weld and it's marked to be grinded. Spatter is another visible that is not allowed on cerification work. Overlap the toe and it's a defect. Can you produce a uniform bead vertical up. Bead height and width the same along the entire weld? How many passes are needed for 1"? How do you tie in each bead? Why is a vertical up your strongest weld? All pipe is welded up unless it is welded on a rotating positioner or inline positioner for submersible welding. We welded most jobs with SMAW. Even more intensive as there is more possibilties for a defect.
You can go ahead and say that it is a comparably simple to learn task and you're right. The basics are easy but, beyond that it takes years of continous learning and doing to do it right. That is the same with any job that actually require skill and knowledge. Myself, I haven't welded in 6 years and I know that I would have an extremely hard time passing certification today ( I worked bothsides of the field, welding and NDT since 1980 starting in the Navy as a C-1 welder). With a few days of practice I'm sure I could regain part of those skills but would still be iffy. If I can pass the test, I want top pay and nothing less. The union sees to it that top dog welders get that pay in most areas. They also see to it that someone who skipped across the border does not.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[misaltas 0]

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I know my shit and I deserve my pay. Just like a fuckin lawyer, doctor or whatever.

I certainly respect professionalism and excellence in any field, and the skills you've honed help make the world a better place, no more and no less than some degreed professional.

But to be honest, you lost me on that last sentence. The only pay one deserves is what someone else is willing to pay them for what they do. Nothing more, nothing less. One can list complex skills until the sun goes down and if no one needs them, they're (quite literally) useless. Yours seem to be valuable, so you're paid for that value. Good for you, but not my point.

I don't see unions' positions as good or bad, black or white, managements'/owners' either. I can add to the one-sided conversations here on either side, but that would be pointless.

But one thing that does bug me about some union members who don't think things all the way through is that they feel they're owed something more than the market will bear because of some fill in the blank reason which is something other than simple supply and demand. To me, the goal of a union is to distort fair and open market forces. Why?

Ohne Liebe sind wir nichts

[Tornolf 0]

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If I can pass the test, I want top pay and nothing less. The union sees to it that top dog welders get that pay in most areas. They also see to it that someone who skipped across the border does not.

This is what I don't really understand. As posted immediately above, the union is adversely affecting market forces. What happens if someone who has skipped across the border happens to be better than these top dogs, simply because they're naturally talented when it comes to welding? How about someone who isn't in a union, but is more efficient and just happens to be better than these top dog union welders? Why should someone be paid more solely because they're in a union, especially when they're using anti-competitive, anti-capitalist tactics? When companies do what unions try to do, it's called anti-competitive and hurts everyone except for the company unless the government steps in.

It appears to me that unions tend to only look at the short term, microeconomic issues, rather than long term or macroeconomic issues.

A waddling elephant seal is the cutest thing in the entire world.
-TJ

[rehmwa 2]

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I think I had two days of training before TIG welding overpacks on a few capsules containing ~8 lbs of cesium (Cs-137) chloride each. I wouldn't say that I was "very proficient" at it, but I was good enough.

I had one day of TiG training at a shipyard for orientation - was doing fine until we were trying to do stuff with mirrors (i don't recall the term) but I stuck the probe in the weld (I've never had steady hands-brain surgery was also discouraged). The instructor laughed his ass off and invited his 'real' class to come see a good example of what to avoid.

regular stick welding was more fun and a lot easier

welding is an art (Our camera guy is a welder)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

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I can teach someone to tig in less than an hour. You're right, it is not that hard to learn how to make a simple weld. It is hard to make certification welds. There is far more to........{{{details}}}} in most areas. They also see to it that someone who skipped across the border does not.

did you also do your own NDT? what types?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JohnRich 4]

News:

Half of immigrants in Texas are there illegally

Half of the nearly 3.5 million immigrants living in Texas are in the country illegally, the Center for Immigration Studies says.

Based on the latest Census Bureau data, the report said Texas has one of the fastest-growing immigrant populations of any state. It said that 50 percent of the state's foreign-born population — slightly more than 1.7 million people — are illegal immigrants. Only Arizona at 65 percent, North Carolina at 58 percent and Georgia at 53 percent had a higher proportion of illegal immigrants in their immigrant populations.

Nearly one in three of these newcomers is here illegally. Half of the immigrants from Mexico and Central America are in the country illegally, and one-third of those from South America are illegal immigrants...

Full story: Statesman

[JohnRich 4]

P.S. We have two different discussions going on simultaneously, and intermingled. This thread is supposed to be about illegal immigration. Moderators: Please break-off the talk about unions to another thread.

[nigel99 151]

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P.S. We have two different discussions going on simultaneously, and intermingled. This thread is supposed to be about illegal immigration. Moderators: Please break-off the talk about unions to another thread.

Hey John if you hadn't noticed nobody reads anyone elses posts anyway. All threads are simply a collection of opposing views

PS Just to keep this thread off topic I saw this youtube video and thought that you would enjoy it (strong language) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojXT9-7IGZU

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[masterrig 1]

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News:

Half of immigrants in Texas are there illegally

Half of the nearly 3.5 million immigrants living in Texas are in the country illegally, the Center for Immigration Studies says.

Based on the latest Census Bureau data, the report said Texas has one of the fastest-growing immigrant populations of any state. It said that 50 percent of the state's foreign-born population — slightly more than 1.7 million people — are illegal immigrants. Only Arizona at 65 percent, North Carolina at 58 percent and Georgia at 53 percent had a higher proportion of illegal immigrants in their immigrant populations.

Nearly one in three of these newcomers is here illegally. Half of the immigrants from Mexico and Central America are in the country illegally, and one-third of those from South America are illegal immigrants...

Full story: Statesman

...and all our politicians want to do is give them 'amnesty'. I don't care how they word it. We in this country are so controlled by 'Political Correctness'. Not to mention, we are letting the Mexican government and big business lead us by our collective nose.
We need to stop it! We need to fix our welfare program and secure our borders! Who else is here that we don'tknow about?


Chuck

[freethefly 6]

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I can teach someone to tig in less than an hour. You're right, it is not that hard to learn how to make a simple weld. It is hard to make certification welds. There is far more to........{{{details}}}} in most areas. They also see to it that someone who skipped across the border does not.

did you also do your own NDT? what types?

When I was welding, I did not do any testing. Not allowed. All of our welds on pressure pipe was RT'd by St.Louis Testing.
While with Sperry Rail Service I learned UX and EMF NDT. I was a level 2 examiner (we were more like a level 3 as we also setup, repair and made technical changes to the equipment). The rail test car employed UX and EMF testing methods. The shop in Danbury can take a test a bit further with xray (RT) and destructive testing such as etching as can be seen in pic #4.
The rail test car use 4 roller search units with three piezo crystals to convert electrical energy into mechanical energy (a focused vibration) set at 0, 70, and 37 degrees. 2 RSU's are used on each side configured at 70,0,37,37,0,70 so as to see every part of the rail. Time gates (in milliseconds) allow the impluses to pass without hitting each other. If there is no defect to return the energy it just dissipitates off into the rail. A defect is like a wall that you would toss a ball at. It's the end of the line and the sound is returned along the path it followed and back to the crystal to be converted back into electrical energy and then amplified and regitered on a read out tape to be interpeted by the examiner. This all happens within a few milliseconds while the test car travels at 6.5 (in switch areas) to 13 mph (on clean rail). Speed is determined by rail surface conditions.
EMF sets an electrical field around the rail and a coil is passed over the surface of the railhead. Being that an electrical current follows the path of least resistance, the lines of force will deviate from the path to go around a defect. The coil is "hit" by these deviations as it rides but 1/8th above the surface. The line takes on the form of a "bump" and hits the bottom of the coil to give an indication that something is below the rail surface.

A bit of history on SRS
http://www.trainweb.org/elso/SPERRY.HTM

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Andy9o8 0]

It's easily verified or disproved, right? I looked it up and double-checked it before I posted it. I wouldn't have posted it in this shark pen if I wasn't sure.

[billvon 2,462]

>We have two different discussions going on simultaneously, and intermingled.

Actually three. A welding subthread has popped up as well. I'll lock it and let you restart it if you choose. (And other posters should feel free to restart the welding or union threads.)