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[NickDG 23]

Long time jumpers will find a certain déjà vu in this subject.

In the '80s whenever (and it was generally only occasionally) PARACHUTIST ran a photo of a military jumper there were grumbles. "The Army has their own pipeline to distribute this sort of stuff," is what some thought, "and why is my dime (USPA dues) being used to facilitate Army recruiting?"

I remember one PARACHUTIST that showed a loaded down HALO jumper in full military garb exiting right on the cover. The Freaks of the sport freaked out.

But there has always been, as mentioned upboard, a strong symbiosis between civilian and military jumping, but there is more to it than just shared technology and technique. I started jumping in a military club in the '70s and I can tell you there wasn't much difference between the civilian side and the military side. We also (military jumpers at the time) secreted beers behind the hangar between loads and rolled fat ones.

If you read the older magazines from the 70s when Norm Heaton was running things at USPA (out of San Francisco) he did a monthly column called "In the Wind" where he recapped the various goings-on around the sport and this always included the military clubs. It was innocent enough with things like, "Sgt Rock makes his 100th jump," or, "Major Minor gets married," and things like that. And that seemed fine. In the 70s, in the midst of all the freaks on the DZ, there was still more than a few sporting crew cuts who still shined their jump boots.

Then began USPA's fascination with the "operational" side of military jumping. And this includes the Knights and at first it was just a bit weird, and than it became a little creepy. It's hard to write about recent history because it's too recent. But you can draw your own conclusions. And while you do - remember this was the 1980s and not 2007.

Nowadays whenever I see something military in PARACHUTIST it still reeks of recruitment on my dime, but it’s a different world now and the majority seems to see nothing wrong with it.

DZ.com is a totally different story. It's not an "association" and I don't pay dues. HH can run ads for anything he wants and I can't say anything about it.

Except this . . .

Leaving politics aside, leaving right and wrong aside, surly some impressionable 18-year old will see that DZ's advert, enlist in the Army for good or bad, and maybe loose his life. And all he came here for in the first place was to ask about a good place to make a tandem.

Oh boy, Skyride's got nothing on us . . .

NickD BASE 194

[waltappel 1]

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DZ.com is a totally different story. It's not an "association" and I don't pay dues. HH can run ads for anything he wants and I can't say anything about it.

Except this . . .

Leaving politics aside, leaving right and wrong aside, surly some impressionable 18-year old will see that DZ's advert, enlist in the Army for good or bad, and maybe lose his life. And all he came here for in the first place was to ask about a good place to make a tandem.

Oh boy, Skyride's got nothing on us . . .

NickD BASE 194

Nick, I've had mucho respect for you for a long time, but I am awed by your "out of the box" thinking on this one!
Walt

[warpedskydiver 0]

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What do you think when you find it here?

I think: "How kind of them to give me half of the $439.3 billion US defense budget!"

Just remember to share

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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Leaving politics aside, leaving right and wrong aside, surly some impressionable 18-year old will see that DZ's advert, enlist in the Army for good or bad, and maybe loose his life. And all he came here for in the first place was to ask about a good place to make a tandem.

Absolutely because it would have been WAY better for that impressionable 18 year old to continue with the drug dealers they were running with, get pregnant and end up dead in the streets of Seattle from a drug overdose.

I would have rather died for a cause.

I'm not picking on your post, I know you said 'for good or bad' and I was just trying to show in this difficult time in our country the good things that can come from the military. As it was, I didn't lose my life...but what I got out of it personally, I feel was well worth the risk. If I had been killed, I would have died a better person than had I never joined, there is no doubt about that. A lot of us joined when we were impressionable teenagers that needed some direction. Those that I knew and served with had no regrets, and we were proud of how we matured while serving our country.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[NickDG 23]

I'm with you on that . . .

On my seventeenth birthday in 1971 I enlisted in the Marine Corps and served 4 years.

On the other hand I'm not 17 anymore and that was 36 years ago.

I've learned a lot since then . . .

NickD BASE 194

[livendive 8]

I think they're betting that skydivers will be more vulnerable to the "It's not just a job, it's an adventure!" brand of bs.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[bozo 0]

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I think they're betting that skydivers will be more vulnerable to the "It's not just a job, it's an adventure!" brand of bs.

Blues,
Dave

It seems from, my memory , that you bought into the bullshit once , Dave and you werent even a skydiver yet.

bozo
Pain is fleeting. Glory lasts forever. Chicks dig scars.

[livendive 8]

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I think they're betting that skydivers will be more vulnerable to the "It's not just a job, it's an adventure!" brand of bs.

Blues,
Dave

It seems from, my memory , that you bought into the bullshit once , Dave and you werent even a skydiver yet.

If I hadn't, I wouldn't know what utter bullshit it was.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[NickDG 23]

I'm not naïve enough to ignore that some wars are justified. But raise the military enlistment age to 35, rather than 17, and most ancillary wars wouldn't occur. You can say what you want about us old hippies, but, "What if they had a war and no one showed up," is more valid today than ever before.

Like most in my generation, I feel used and abused. Someday, and with no joy, I'll venture you will too.

NickD BASE 194

[NickDG 23]

Funny.

The closer to the truth we get the faster we get moved to the ash heap of the speaker's corner.

That sucks . . .

On another front. When the BASE Zone got the heave where was the disscusion? It's like the transition was seemless and that can't be right . . .

NickD BASE 194

[NickDG 23]

And the topper . . .

>>I think: "How kind of them to give me half of the $439.3 billion US defense budget!<<

3645 Americans dead.

Not so funny, HH . . .

NickD
BASE 194

[freethefly 6]

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I won't be permanently retired, just moving on to a second career. I am planning on taking a job where everyone loves me:

Driving a Roach Coach

Yup, you'll be a real hit with those week old http://www.landshire.com/sandwichlist1.htm

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[sangiro 4]

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And the topper . . .

>>I think: "How kind of them to give me half of the $439.3 billion US defense budget!<<

3645 Americans dead.

Not so funny, HH . . .

NickD
BASE 194

Nick,

Who said anyone, not only Americans, dying at war was funny?

I recall you complaining (as you seem to do a lot nowadays) in some other thread that I was "assigning untold meaning to your thoughts". You're showing yourself to be a master of the art.

I know you enjoy writing about BASE from your years of experience and we all enjoy reading it, but please do not make the mistake of assuming for a second that I need to be told about the impact and consequences of war. I have plenty of first-hand experience and is well able to form my own opinions about it.

Safe swoops
Sangiro

[Skyrad 0]

Why not? Suitable audiance as any.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rehmwa 2]

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What do you think when you find it here?

I think they paid HH for advertising that keeps this site open, likely more than any of us have.

I have yet to click on it even though there is likely some some form of hypnotic compulsion designed into the banner to make us click on it

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[freethefly 6]

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What do you think when you find it here?

I think they paid HH for advertising that keeps this site open, likely more than any of us have.

I have yet to click on it even though there is likely some some form of hypnotic compulsion designed into the banner to make us click on it

The Army will give you a "free" cd video game if you visit their site. (more waste of the taxpayers money)

In reply to the post suggesting that 18yo's will become drug addicts if they don't join.
This war and the same with past wars, is producing drug addicts, homeless, unemployable, mental illness, armless, legless, faceless and dead people.
I'd much rather an 18yo look into college, tech school or an apprenticeship or simply apply for work at the factory. I much rather they meet someone and get married, have children and raise their families. I'd much rather they grow old with their arms, legs, faces and with their minds intact.

Maybe a casualty report will put this bullshit war into perspective for those who are hellbent on sending kids and anyone else into a meatgrinder while they sit safe and sound at home.
http://icasualties.org/oif/default.aspx

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[rehmwa 2]

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The Army will give you a "free" cd video game if you visit their site. (more waste of the taxpayers money)

Dang, Ftfly - that sounds very Libertarian of you.

Hey, the video game is free if you don't pay any taxes.

Much like "free" health care, "free" housing, "free" prescriptions, "free" roads, "free" cheese

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[freethefly 6]

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"free" cheese

Toss in some free Animal Crackers at the taxpayers expense and I'm onboard for the long haul.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[GravityGirl 0]

>>Except this . . .

Leaving politics aside, leaving right and wrong aside, surly some impressionable 18-year old will see that DZ's advert, enlist in the Army for good or bad, and maybe loose his life. And all he came here for in the first place was to ask about a good place to make a tandem.
<<

That same 18 year old kid is gonna see that same ad everywhere he turns. Because they are marketing it right at him, and they know where he hangs out. At least here he can ask on one of the forums what seasoned skydivers/military personel think about it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[birdshit 0]

dz.com is a business. They have to pay for servers, hardware, networking gear, firewalls, intrusion detection, software, and lots of other stuff we don't know about that happens behind the scenes so that when you type the url into your browser that a page pops up. It is a complicated and expensive process to run a website.

They might have discretion about whos ads they put in the banners, etc, but why should they be concerned about it? why wouldn't they have an army banner? Maybe I am slipping back into 'hoe mode', but if they are the highest bidder... lol.. It's a free market in action.

With the burden that is placed on our soldiers, and the very visible daily reports from the front lines, they are probably having an enormously difficult time making their numbers...

I have mixed feelings and I could go on for days about the damage that the fools running our country have done to it. But it is a pointless argument that will drag on for 27 pages.

But I DO know that my buddies need backup out there, and not the burnt out shell of a guy they just rotated back to the rear 3 weeks ago. If they can trick some suckers into signing on the dotted line, more power to em. It worked for me... LOL..

If ever asked, I would advise against joining the Army though. I would say that back when I served, America only put people in harms way when it was absolutely nessecary to secure freedom for ourselves and our allies and to protect our interests and all other options had been explored.

The dangerous new policy of preemption, extraordinary rendition, the utter disregard for the articles of the Geneva convention and Cheney's 2% doctrine makes our soldiers more or less 'expendable', and they could be sent wherever, whenever without much of a good reason at all.

My $0.02

[matthewcline 0]

I think I am ahead of ya!

An Instructors first concern is student safety.
So, start being safe, first!!!