Concealed Handguns on College Campuses

[unformed 0]

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Well, a college living situation. You have the same problems in a nearby frat or shared apartment. You wouldn't have the same problem with a student living at home, or by himself. (Although the suicide issue would still be an issue no matter where he lives.)

I would fully expect that any responsible gun owner (ie: anyone who has taken a CCW course) would know far better than to leave a firearm accessible to roommates.

The person who introduced me to guns was someone most people would think should never have access to a gun. Often loaded and on drugs.

However, he never even so much brought out his gun while he was loaded. It was always locked up and away. No one ever had access to them, and most importantly he always gave every firearm the respect it was due.

My understanding is that those who have carry permits understand the dangers of guns, and just as much, especially since their guns are most likely registered to themself wouldn't want other people to have access.

This ad space for sale.

[billvon 2,426]

>I would fully expect that any responsible gun owner (ie: anyone who
>has taken a CCW course) would know far better than to leave a firearm
>accessible to roommates.

Of course. And any college student who is a responsible driver (ie: anyone who has taken driver training) should know far better than to drive drunk. Yet it happens with great regularity. Any college student with half a lick of sense should never drink so much they pass out, or convince someone else to drink so much. But that also happens with great regularity.

Most students are pretty responsible people. But it takes some people longer than 18 years to learn common sense; sometimes it just comes with age. (Of course, some people never learn it at all - fortunately they are in the minority.)

Besides which, if my choice in college had been buying a gun safe or eating for the next week - I know which one I would have chosen.

>My understanding is that those who have carry permits understand the
>dangers of guns . . .

Just as drivers understand the dangers of driving drunk. But convenience, inexperience, laziness and poverty are often strong incentives to ignoring such dangers.

None of this means that college students cannot safely carry guns (given the proper instruction) and I would not support any federal or state law that said they couldn't. But because college students tend to be less mature, less experienced, poorer and (often) more intoxicated than the average population, I can see why a specific school might decide to outlaw guns on their campuses.

OTOH, I can see cases where a school might well decide such a rule is too hard to enforce and/or will not be very effective, and thus allow them.

[Lindsey 0]

Hence, if he knows that many guns could be around him to so try and stop him, he would just find another way to do the harm. With a bomb for instance. In the end, nobody is any safer and the self-defence tool has become useless.

So why are folks so hell-bent on taking away people's right to own a gun? It's just a grain on the ant-hill all-in-all, yet people are focused on banning guns as though it would solve the problem of human violence.

linz

--
A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[kelpdiver 2]

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Besides which, if my choice in college had been buying a gun safe or eating for the next week - I know which one I would have chosen.

If those are the choices, the person in question is not likely to be a candidate for CCW. (keeping one at home, yes) Most of the states have class and license fee requirements that dwarf the rather low cost of a single gun lock up.

[billvon 2,426]

>If those are the choices, the person in question is not likely to be
>a candidate for CCW.

Perhaps. Yet a few people still somehow scrape up the money to skydive in college - and some people enjoy owning guns as much as others enjoy skydiving.

In any case, the overall issue is that the college environment is different than the environment of the average gun owner, and thus colleges may decide on different rules.

[kelpdiver 2]

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In any case, the overall issue is that the college environment is different than the environment of the average gun owner, and thus colleges may decide on different rules.

Your assertion.

You should be comparing the college environment to the average 21 yo gun owner, though.

And I'm a bit troubled by the conclusion that the college may decide on different rules ... seems like that has a slope nearby.

[Richards 0]

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Many colleges have a not-insignificant suicide problem, and (relatively) easy availability of guns would likely increase the success rate of suicide attempts. It was a serious problem at our school, but we were able to stop most suicide attempts (which I think is a good thing.)

Very true. A flip side to that coin is that rape is an epidemic on some (many) campus's so predators might think twice if the little petite girl who epitomises vulnerability might actually have the means to harm or kill him. In fairness I can see that the suicide issue would be a big problem

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[Douva 0]

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Well, I wasn't really trying to argue for or against it. I was trying to just voice my concerns or thoughts about it, and i wanted to see what people proposing this thought.

I think you're right in one sense, that if you are allowed to carry everywhere else, you should be allowed to carry on a college campus. Isolated in and of itself, that logic of "I can do it elsewhere that is public, why not there" makes sense to me.

At the same time, Im not so sure it's a good idea because of the type of behavior that goes on in college. I just wanted to see a response that addressed those thoughts.

Personally, I think the gun debate is an interesting one. Usually, I don't engage in them because they turn into shouting matches that really don't do much for me as far as getting new information or points of view. I thought your original post seemed level headed and thought provoking to where i posted about it, and was curious if anyone else had the same thoughts about people carrying guns on college campuses that i do, or if perhaps someone who would advocate this could address my concerns in a way where i could understand the other side of the argument.

I agree that there are college activities where people have no business having guns. Hell, I've seen college hunting trips where people had no business having guns. But those activities do not pertain to the question at hand. The question is not whether or not college students should be allowed to have guns; the question is whether or not college students who are licensed to carry a gun everywhere else should also be allowed to carry a gun on campus.

1. Most wild college parties happen off campus.
2. There are already laws in place prohibiting the posession of a firearm while intoxicated and/or in a bar.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[billvon 2,426]

>And I'm a bit troubled by the conclusion that the college may decide
>on different rules ... seems like that has a slope nearby.

Hmm, I don't. Their school, their rules. Not much different than, say, a courthouse or a shopping mall - and colleges are significantly _less_ restrictive than an airport.

[FreeflyChile 0]

By campus do you mean campus buildings or the campus area?

Just curious because where i went to school, people didn't really leave campus as i understood it to be to party.

[mnealtx 0]

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[akarunway 1]

FLORIDA

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[kallend 1,646]

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I dont think giving hormonal teenagers weapons in such a densly populated environment as college could be any good for anyone. When the testosterone is flying around and arguments ensue do you really want guns to be at hand? Thats fucking stupid

As a college professor for the last 35 years, I'd claim a bit more insight than most.

The LAST thing we need in a situation like VT is a bunch of kids trying to play Wyatt Earp.

I'd have no problem at all with someone who's had tactical (police or military) training having a concealed weapon in my class or walking down the hallways, but untrained kids in an extreme stress situation would be a sure recipe for disaster.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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The LAST thing we need in a situation like VT is a bunch of kids trying to play Wyatt Earp.

Yeah!! Because, you know, that happens ALL THE TIME with concealed carry holders... that's why the Brady folks keep going on about "blood in the streets".

What *is* it with the anti-gunners and projection, anyway?

Those "kids" you refer to, btw, are legal adults over the age of 21 and responsible for their actions.

I suppose next you'll say that 21-year old college students aren't mature enough to vote, either?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[shortyj 0]

I am for law abiding citizens to carry handguns. As long as they pass a backround check. If more people had guns that day to protect themselves that shooter would have not got as far as he did More gun control is not the answer. People in the USA just keeping giving up their rights, this is one area we need not give up and over to the government.

Playtime is essential.

[SkyDekker 1,141]

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So why are folks so hell-bent on taking away people's right to own a gun? It's just a grain on the ant-hill all-in-all, yet people are focused on banning guns as though it would solve the problem of human violence.

because they see aother western countries with stricter gun laws and lower murder rates. I am not so sure that is the answer for the US though. I am not so sure an answer is needed, cause it would imply a problem. I don't think there is a problem, you are just seeing the cost of the 2nd amendmend.

[kallend 1,646]

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The LAST thing we need in a situation like VT is a bunch of kids trying to play Wyatt Earp.

Yeah!! Because, you know, that happens ALL THE TIME with concealed carry holders... that's why the Brady folks keep going on about "blood in the streets".

What *is* it with the anti-gunners and projection, anyway?

Those "kids" you refer to, btw, are legal adults over the age of 21 and responsible for their actions.

I suppose next you'll say that 21-year old college students aren't mature enough to vote, either?

Maybe you should attend a few more frat parties. That they're legal adults means diddly squat.

And the more gung-ho the kid is, the LESS likely he is to be of any value in a crisis. (I suspect that applies to a lot of DZ.COMers too.)

I would only feel comfortable with arming campus kids who have had some serious tactical training. The Rambo wannabees are the least likely to be of any help at all.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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Maybe you should attend a few more frat parties. That they're legal adults means diddly squat.

And if you talk to responsible gun owners... the guns are put up before the booze comes out.

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And the more gung-ho the kid is, the LESS likely he is to be of any value in a crisis. (I suspect that applies to a lot of DZ.COMers too.)

I would only feel comfortable with arming campus kids who have had some serious tactical training. The Rambo wannabees are the least likely to be of any help at all.

Funny thing about carrying concealed - you become much LESS gung-ho and find more ways to defuse a situation, because you know that the gun is the LAST resort, not the first.

Browsing other sites besides the Brady folks' for concealed carry info might be in order.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rehmwa 2]

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feel comfortable with arming campus kids who have had some serious tactical training.

You guys keep arguing with Kallend, but the above is pretty much concurrence with what pro-gunners say - (licensed and trained) the only difference is how much training is warranted - he's on the side of having no issue with those qualified and responsible enough to have gun ownership.

(I don't think most 21 year olds today are really adults. so flame away. they are much more sheltered and self centered now than ever before.)

(the only exception I take here is the tacit idea that Kallend's meritocracy is bestowing the arms on the kids. "arming kids" - society does not have the right to "arm" people. Implicit in that wording is again the socialist assumption that society owns all the rights and resources and doles it out as government sees fit. This is completely wrong. The people have the right to arm themselves provided they choose to (not are allowed to) and meet qualifications in skill and judgment.)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Douva 0]

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By campus do you mean campus buildings or the campus area?

Just curious because where i went to school, people didn't really leave campus as i understood it to be to party.

In Texas, it's just the campus buildings that are affected.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Douva 0]

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The LAST thing we need in a situation like VT is a bunch of kids trying to play Wyatt Earp.

Yeah!! Because, you know, that happens ALL THE TIME with concealed carry holders... that's why the Brady folks keep going on about "blood in the streets".

What *is* it with the anti-gunners and projection, anyway?

Those "kids" you refer to, btw, are legal adults over the age of 21 and responsible for their actions.

I suppose next you'll say that 21-year old college students aren't mature enough to vote, either?

Maybe you should attend a few more frat parties. That they're legal adults means diddly squat.

And the more gung-ho the kid is, the LESS likely he is to be of any value in a crisis. (I suspect that applies to a lot of DZ.COMers too.)

I would only feel comfortable with arming campus kids who have had some serious tactical training. The Rambo wannabees are the least likely to be of any help at all.

And there it comes out--You're biased. Your disdain for the kids you've spent a lifetime teaching skews your judgment.

I've seen some pretty crazy skydiving parties. Maybe skydivers shouldn't be allowed to carry firearms, either. That, of course, ignores the fact that those crazy parties often involve a few police officers and both active and retired military personnel, but they get crazy at parties, so obviously they're not mature enough in their day-to-day lives to carry firearms.

And all of your "gung-ho" and "Rambo" comments are based on nothing more than your own disdain for gun owners.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[kallend 1,646]

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The LAST thing we need in a situation like VT is a bunch of kids trying to play Wyatt Earp.

Yeah!! Because, you know, that happens ALL THE TIME with concealed carry holders... that's why the Brady folks keep going on about "blood in the streets".

What *is* it with the anti-gunners and projection, anyway?

Those "kids" you refer to, btw, are legal adults over the age of 21 and responsible for their actions.

I suppose next you'll say that 21-year old college students aren't mature enough to vote, either?

Maybe you should attend a few more frat parties. That they're legal adults means diddly squat.

And the more gung-ho the kid is, the LESS likely he is to be of any value in a crisis. (I suspect that applies to a lot of DZ.COMers too.)

I would only feel comfortable with arming campus kids who have had some serious tactical training. The Rambo wannabees are the least likely to be of any help at all.

And there it comes out--You're biased. Your disdain for the kids you've spent a lifetime teaching skews your judgment.

I've seen some pretty crazy skydiving parties. Maybe skydivers shouldn't be allowed to carry firearms, either. That, of course, ignores the fact that those crazy parties often involve a few police officers and both active and retired military personnel, but they get crazy at parties, so obviously they're not mature enough in their day-to-day lives to carry firearms.

And all of your "gung-ho" and "Rambo" comments are based on nothing more than your own disdain for gun owners.

How many years of intensive experience with college kids do you have? When it exceeds 35, get back to me.

In case you missed the news, the biggest massacre in recent US history was perpetrated by a college kid with guns.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Douva 0]

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The LAST thing we need in a situation like VT is a bunch of kids trying to play Wyatt Earp.

Yeah!! Because, you know, that happens ALL THE TIME with concealed carry holders... that's why the Brady folks keep going on about "blood in the streets".

What *is* it with the anti-gunners and projection, anyway?

Those "kids" you refer to, btw, are legal adults over the age of 21 and responsible for their actions.

I suppose next you'll say that 21-year old college students aren't mature enough to vote, either?

Maybe you should attend a few more frat parties. That they're legal adults means diddly squat.

And the more gung-ho the kid is, the LESS likely he is to be of any value in a crisis. (I suspect that applies to a lot of DZ.COMers too.)

I would only feel comfortable with arming campus kids who have had some serious tactical training. The Rambo wannabees are the least likely to be of any help at all.

And there it comes out--You're biased. Your disdain for the kids you've spent a lifetime teaching skews your judgment.

I've seen some pretty crazy skydiving parties. Maybe skydivers shouldn't be allowed to carry firearms, either. That, of course, ignores the fact that those crazy parties often involve a few police officers and both active and retired military personnel, but they get crazy at parties, so obviously they're not mature enough in their day-to-day lives to carry firearms.

And all of your "gung-ho" and "Rambo" comments are based on nothing more than your own disdain for gun owners.

How many years of intensive experience with college kids do you have? When it exceeds 35, get back to me.

In case you missed the news, the biggest massacre in recent US history was perpetrated by a college kid with guns.

If personal experience is the criteria for posting, how many years of hands-on experience do you have with firearms?

Perhaps nobody should criticize George W. Bush unless he or she has experience running the United States of America--Is that how your logic works?

What I saw on the news was a madman who gunned down thirty-two unarmed people in a "gun free zone."

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[SkyDekker 1,141]

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What I saw on the news was a madman who gunned down thirty-two unarmed people in a "gun free zone."

\

Don't forget to add: with legally obtained firearms.

[rushmc 18]

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What I saw on the news was a madman who gunned down thirty-two unarmed people in a "gun free zone."

\

Don't forget to add: with legally obtained firearms.

...because of loophole in state law and a whimpy judge.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln