USA - Glorifying guns?

[Axe_Murderer 0]

I think some of the school gun problems are caused by the glorification of guns in the media

take (c)rap music, you've got all these low life "ganstaz" who want to appear cool, so they all talk bollocks....sorry, rap about guns and how their "nine is loaded" and other shite, what kind of image does this present to impressionable people?

Does the media in general need to stop glorifying guns ?

[Skyrad 0]

You're right in as much as the problem isn't the ownership of firearms but the culture of the population who owns them. As long as life is seen as cheap and firearms are viewed as fashion accesorries then there will be a problem.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[sundevil777 94]

Don't forget how movies and TV shows show us how cool it is to hold a gun sideways while shooting, and when you've got a gun for each hand it is really cool to cross your arms in order to shoot in different directions.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jakee 1,257]

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I think some of the school gun problems are caused by the glorification of guns in the media

take (c)rap music, you've got all these low life "ganstaz" who want to appear cool, so they all talk bollocks....sorry, rap about guns and how their "nine is loaded" and other shite, what kind of image does this present to impressionable people?

Does the media in general need to stop glorifying guns ?

I was considering making a very similar post myself.

I don't think that the main problem in the USA is that they have a lot of guns, I think it is the manner in which they view their guns, and their willingness to use them in any situation that could remotely be construed as self defense.

You can look back on this forum and see just how many posters are afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone, how many posters want to know what the best bullet for killing people is, how many posters reply to stories of succesful deterrance with the suggestion that it would have been much better if the OP had shot everyone instead of just scaring them off.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[NCclimber 0]

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You can look back on this forum and see just how many posters are afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone, how many posters want to know what the best bullet for killing people is, how many posters reply to stories of succesful deterrance with the suggestion that it would have been much better if the OP had shot everyone instead of just scaring them off.

This is complete bullshit..

[kallend 1,646]

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You can look back on this forum and see just how many posters are afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone, how many posters want to know what the best bullet for killing people is, how many posters reply to stories of succesful deterrance with the suggestion that it would have been much better if the OP had shot everyone instead of just scaring them off.

This is complete bullshit..

Just today...www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2764092#2764092

The bullshit is all yours.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[steveorino 7]

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Don't forget how movies and TV shows show us how cool it is to hold a gun sideways while shooting, and when you've got a gun for each hand it is really cool to cross your arms in order to shoot in different directions.

I'm curious. If that was a strong cause in what we see today, why wasn't my generation that grew up on westerns where there was a shootout every half hour on the streets of didge city terrozing the streets with our ow shootouts?

steveOrino

[NCclimber 0]

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You can look back on this forum and see just how many posters are afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone, how many posters want to know what the best bullet for killing people is, how many posters reply to stories of succesful deterrance with the suggestion that it would have been much better if the OP had shot everyone instead of just scaring them off.

This is complete bullshit..

Just today...www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2764092#2764092

The bullshit is all yours.

Which of the three assertions does that post directly address?

How many posters are afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone?

How many posters want to know what the best bullet for killing people is?

How many posters reply to stories of succesful deterrance with the suggestion that it would have been much better if the OP had shot everyone instead of just scaring them off?

Or is this like an employer, requiring a former employee to comply with a confidentiality clause, being equated with the United States government censoring a major news outlet?

And since we're bringing other threads into this, I thought I'd throw in this little gem.

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Unlike you, I don't read things into statements I want to hear.

[jakee 1,257]

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This is complete bullshit..

Do you deny that many people here have posted of how vulnerable they would feel when not packing a gun?

Do you deny that there have been numerous posts here about the most effective amunition for putting down a human target?

Do you deny that posters here have (jokingly or not) advocated shooting people and then lying to the police to justify it as self defense?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 1,646]

You should take a course in set theory.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[metalslug 31]

...and obesity is caused by the glorification of food on the BBC food channel ?
Well, in some small way, it probably is. .

But, of course, it would help if more citizens were strong-minded enough to resist undesirable influences.
In my pre-teen youth, I had every conceivable toy weapon I could get my hands on; from plastic viking weapons to 'cap' guns, bows & arrows, water pistols and even a plastic AK47 with a very authentic sound. I would secretly stay awake in my room after 'bedtime' to watch the first seasons of Miami Vice on a portable TV with headphones.

Today, I'm a successful professional with no history of violence or crime. I own one firearm but have never drawn the weapon on anyone in the 10 years that I've owned it, even in a country with a high crime rate.
So then, how do I show such restraint after all those youthful influences? Am I somehow "better" than other people?
I sincerely hope not, I would prefer to believe that everyone is capable of wisdom.

I do agree that some entertainment sources can, and do, influence some people in bad ways, but I do not fault the source for that, I fault those affected by it.
Approx. 7 billion people on the planet;
Hollywood movies and rap music are distributed globally. It would be unfortunate to implement mass censorship to account for a small percentage who's violent behavior could be linked to entertainment.

No 'mericans were harmed during the making of this post.

[rushmc 18]

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I think some of the school gun problems are caused by the glorification of guns in the media

take (c)rap music, you've got all these low life "ganstaz" who want to appear cool, so they all talk bollocks....sorry, rap about guns and how their "nine is loaded" and other shite, what kind of image does this present to impressionable people?

Does the media in general need to stop glorifying guns ?

I was considering making a very similar post myself.

I don't think that the main problem in the USA is that they have a lot of guns, I think it is the manner in which they view their guns, and their willingness to use them in any situation that could remotely be construed as self defense.

You can look back on this forum and see just how many posters are afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone, how many posters want to know what the best bullet for killing people is, how many posters reply to stories of succesful deterrance with the suggestion that it would have been much better if the OP had shot everyone instead of just scaring them off.

This is the most screwed up interpitation of positions and comments of those on this site I have ever seen. If you don't know you don't have to make posts to prove it

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

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You can look back on this forum and see just how many posters are afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone, how many posters want to know what the best bullet for killing people is, how many posters reply to stories of succesful deterrance with the suggestion that it would have been much better if the OP had shot everyone instead of just scaring them off.

This is complete bullshit..

Just today...www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2764092#2764092

The bullshit is all yours.

And once again I ask why billvon called me the king of one liners?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,646]

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Don't forget how movies and TV shows show us how cool it is to hold a gun sideways while shooting, and when you've got a gun for each hand it is really cool to cross your arms in order to shoot in different directions.

I'm curious. If that was a strong cause in what we see today, why wasn't my generation that grew up on westerns where there was a shootout every half hour on the streets of didge city terrozing the streets with our ow shootouts?

The place I grew up didn't lookat all like Didge City (sic), or even Dodge City of the western movies, so it was easy even for a 9 year old to tell it was fantasy.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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This is complete bullshit..

Do you deny that many people here have posted of how vulnerable they would feel when not packing a gun?

What do you mean by "many posters"? 10? 20? 100? I've read CCW threads and I don't recall a whole lot of "I'm afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone".

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Do you deny that there have been numerous posts here about the most effective amunition for putting down a human target?

I must have missed all those requests for what is "the best bullet for killing people".

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Do you deny that posters here have (jokingly or not) advocated shooting people and then lying to the police to justify it as self defense?

Jokingly, eh? Nice back pedal. Anyone seriously making that claim.?

Of course, you weren't exagerating to present a dishonest stereotype, were you?

[kallend 1,646]

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This is complete bullshit..

Do you deny that many people here have posted of how vulnerable they would feel when not packing a gun?

What do you mean by "many posters"? 10? 20? 100? I've read CCW threads and I don't recall a whole lot of "I'm afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone".

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Do you deny that there have been numerous posts here about the most effective amunition for putting down a human target?

I must have missed all those requests for what is "the best bullet for killing people".

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Do you deny that posters here have (jokingly or not) advocated shooting people and then lying to the police to justify it as self defense?

Jokingly, eh? Nice back pedal. Anyone seriously making that claim.?

Of course, you weren't exagerating to present a dishonest stereotype, were you?

I think the accepted response is "Exaggeration for the purposes of sarcasm" (paraphrasing NCclimber, in the Pelosi "I want my jet" thread).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

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You should take a course in set theory.

You should take a course in English Composition.

Or perhaps simple logic.

[mnealtx 0]

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Do you deny that many people here have posted of how vulnerable they would feel when not packing a gun?

Yesterday's events prove that it's not the brightest idea to depend on the kindness of criminals where your personal safety is concerned.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[NCclimber 0]

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I think the accepted response is "Exaggeration for the purposes of sarcasm" (paraphrasing NCclimber, in the Pelosi "I want my jet" thread).

I think the word you're looking for is hyperbole. It's a fairly common term.

I didn't think that was Jakee's intent. Perhaps he can post up "that he was just kidding".

[jakee 1,257]

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What do you mean by "many posters"? 10? 20? 100? I've read CCW threads and I don't recall a whole lot of "I'm afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone".

Shall we say 10? I've got a bit of time on my hands today - do you think I can find 10 people who have posted to the effect that they would or do feel vulnerable if they were not able to carry a gun? Bonus points if I can find them all on JohnRich's UK threads.

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I must have missed all those requests for what is "the best bullet for killing people".

Can't have been paying much attention then.

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Jokingly, eh? Nice back pedal. Anyone seriously making that claim.?

No backpedal. I honestly can't tell if some of them are joking or not. I'd also argue that it still speaks to the mindset I'm talking about that people would find that kind of joke amusing.

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Of course, you weren't exagerating to present a dishonest stereotype, were you?

Uhh, like you would have a problem with that?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SkyDekker 1,141]

Now that the other thread is locked, I am not quite sure where to put this. yesterday's events are truly horrendous and unbelievable for a guy like me. Naturally, the thread quickly degenerated into a barrage of volleys between those in favour of guns and those who want to ban all guns.

I don't think there is a direct answer, a so-called solution to this problem. A long time ago the US decided that guns were important to them as a nation and all(most) people were given the right to own them. I agree that in the last decade or so, violence has been glorified, gangsters have been glorified and to a large degree guns and its illegal use have been glorified. Just turn on VH1 or MTV. Combine that with even less parental and/or family oversight and the mix is quite explosive.

The US simply has many more guns in circulation than most other western countries. They are easier to come by and acquire than most anywhere else in the western hemisphere. Hence, in my humble opinion, yesterdays events at VT are simply the price the US, as a society, pays for the 2nd amendmend.

Yes, the ease of aquiring guns has done a lot of good in the US as well. It has prevented crime, it has stopped criminals, killed criminals, prevented crime, protected homes, families and loved ones. But, there is always another side to the coin, a price to pay if you will. Yesterday the world saw what that price is.

In my opinion, there is no solution to this. The US chose a path to walk down, a path with pros and cons. School and campus shootings happen all over the world, but the US certainly seems to have (significantly) more such occurences then most other western countries, just see the list added below.

Sept. 13, 2006, Montreal, Quebec -- One gunman opens fire at Dawson College in Montreal, leaving a student dead and 19 more injured.

Nov. 8, 2005, Jacksboro, Tenn. -- One 15-year-old shot and killed an assistant principal at Campbell County High School and seriously wounded two other administrators.

March 21, 2005, Red Lake, Minn. -- Jeff Weise, 16, killed grandfather and companion, then arrived at school where he killed a teacher, a security guard, 5 students, and finally himself, leaving a total of 10 dead.

Sept. 28, 2004, Carmen de Patagones, Argentina -- Three students killed and 6 wounded by a 15-year-old Argentinian student in a town 620 miles south of Buenos Aires.

Sept. 24, 2003, Cold Spring, Minn. -- Two students are killed at Rocori High School by John Jason McLaughlin, 15.

April 24, 2003, Red Lion, Pa. -- James Sheets, 14, killed principal Eugene Segro of Red Lion Area Junior High School before killing himself.

April 14, 2003, New Orleans, La. -- One 15-year-old killed, and three students wounded at John McDonogh High School by gunfire from four teenagers (none were students at the school). The motive was gang-related.

April 29, 2002, Vlasenica, Bosnia-Herzegovina -- One teacher killed, one wounded by Dragoslav Petkovic, 17, who then killed himself.

April 26, 2002, Erfurt, Germany -- 13 teachers, two students, and one policeman killed, ten wounded by Robert Steinhaeuser, 19, at the Johann Gutenberg secondary school. Steinhaeuser then killed himself.

Feb. 19, 2002, Freising, Germany -- Two killed in Eching by a man at the factory from which he had been fired; he then traveled to Freising and killed the headmaster of the technical school from which he had been expelled. He also wounded another teacher before killing himself.

Jan. 15, 2002, New York, N.Y. -- A teenager wounded two students at Martin Luther King Jr. High School.

Nov. 12, 2001, Caro, Mich. -- Chris Buschbacher, 17, took two hostages at the Caro Learning Center before killing himself.

March 30, 2001, Gary, Ind. -- One student killed by Donald R. Burt, Jr., a 17-year-old student who had been expelled from Lew Wallace High School.

March 22, 2001, Granite Hills, Calif. -- One teacher and three students wounded by Jason Hoffman, 18, at Granite Hills High School. A policeman shot and wounded Hoffman.

March 7, 2001 Williamsport, Pa. -- Elizabeth Catherine Bush, 14, wounded student Kimberly Marchese in the cafeteria of Bishop Neumann High School; she was depressed and frequently teased.

March 5, 2001, Santee, Calif. -- Two killed and 13 wounded by Charles Andrew Williams, 15, firing from a bathroom at Santana High School.

Jan. 18, 2001, Jan, Sweden -- One student killed by two boys, ages 17 and 19.

Jan. 17, 2001, Baltimore, Md. -- One student shot and killed in front of Lake Clifton Eastern High School.

Sept. 26, 2000, New Orleans, La. -- Two students wounded with the same gun during a fight at Woodson Middle School.

May 26, 2000, Lake Worth, Fla. -- One teacher, Barry Grunow, shot and killed at Lake Worth Middle School by Nate Brazill, 13, with .25-caliber semiautomatic pistol on the last day of classes.

April 20, 2000, Orleans, Ont. -- Four students and one staff member wounded in knife attack at Cairine Wilson High School in Orleans, Ontario occurs on first anniversary of Columbine massacre.

March 10, 2000, Savannah, Ga. -- Two students killed by Darrell Ingram, 19, while leaving a dance sponsored by Beach High School.

March 2000, Branneburg, Germany -- One teacher killed by a 15-year-old student, who then shot himself. The shooter has been in a coma ever since.

Feb. 29, 2000, Mount Morris Township, Mich. -- Six-year-old Kayla Rolland shot dead at Buell Elementary School near Flint, Mich. The assailant was identified as a six-year-old boy with a .32-caliber handgun.

Dec. 7, 1999, Veghel, Netherlands -- One teacher and three students wounded by a 17-year-old student.

Dec. 6, 1999, Fort Gibson, Okla. -- Four students wounded as Seth Trickey, 13, opened fire with a 9mm semiautomatic handgun at Fort Gibson Middle School.

Nov. 19, 1999, Deming, N.M. -- Victor Cordova Jr., 12, shot and killed Araceli Tena, 13, in the lobby of Deming Middle School.

May 20, 1999, Conyers, Ga. -- Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend.

April 28, 1999, Taber, Alberta -- 14-year-old boy shoots two students, one fatally, at W.R. Myers High School in Taber, Alberta.

April 20, 1999, Littleton, Colo. -- 14 students (including killers) and one teacher killed, 23 others wounded at Columbine High School. Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, had plotted for a year to kill at least 500 and blow up their school. At the end of their hour-long rampage, they turned their guns on themselves.

Feb. 8, 1999, Verdun, Quebec -- Man fires shot at Woodland Elementary School in Verdun, Quebec. No one injured.

June 15, 1998, Richmond, Va. -- One teacher and one guidance counselor wounded by a 14-year-old boy in the school hallway.

May 21, 1998, Springfield, Ore. -- Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home.

May 19, 1998, Fayetteville, Tenn. -- One student killed in the parking lot at Lincoln County High School three days before he was to graduate. The victim was dating the ex-girlfriend of his killer, 18-year-old honor student Jacob Davis.

April 24, 1998, Edinboro, Pa. -- One teacher, John Gillette, killed, two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged.

March 24, 1998, Jonesboro, Ark. -- Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods.

Dec. 15, 1997, Stamps, Ark. -- Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot.

Dec. 1, 1997, West Paducah, Ky. -- Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School.

October 1997, Monreal, Quebec -- 35-year-old man fatally shoots teacher at Montreal language school for immigrants.

Oct. 1, 1997, Pearl, Miss. -- Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.

March 1997, Sanaa, Yemen -- Eight people (six students and two others) at two schools killed by Mohammad Ahman al-Naziri.

Feb. 19, 1997, Bethel, Alaska -- Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16.

March 13, 1996, Dunblane, Scotland -- 16 children and one teacher killed at Dunblane Primary School by Thomas Hamilton, who then killed himself. 10 others wounded in attack.

Feb. 2, 1996, Moses Lake, Wash. -- Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class.

October 1994, Toronto, Ont. -- Two guidance counsellors at Brockton High School in Toronto shot and wounded by student unhappy with grades.

June 1993, Vancouver, B.C. -- Teen wounded outside Gladstone Secondary School in Vancouver in drive-by shooting.

February 1990, Burlington, Ont. -- Jilted teenager shoots and wounds estranged girlfriend at General Brock High School in Burlington, Ontario.

December 6, 1989, Montreal, Quebec -- Marc Lepine, 25, shoots dead 14 women at University of Montreal's Ecole polytechnique engineering school, then kills himself.

October 1978, Winnipeg, MB -- 17-year-old student shoots 16-year-old to death at Sturgeon Creek Regional Secondary School in Winnipeg.

May 1975, Brampton, Ont. -- Michael Slobodian, 16, kills teacher and student and wounds 13 others at Centennial Secondary School in Brampton, Ontario before turning gun on himself.

Aug. 1, 1966: Former marine Charles Whitman climbs to the 28th-floor observation deck of a clock tower at the University of Texas in Austin and carries an arsenal with him. He began randomly picking off victims, some blocks away. It takes police hours to reach the top of the tower, where they finally kill Whitman. His mother is later also discovered murdered, Whitman's first victim. He complained of severe headaches and a fantasy of killing people that would not go away.


The 2nd Amendmend comes with a price.

[jakee 1,257]

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I think the accepted response is "Exaggeration for the purposes of sarcasm" (paraphrasing NCclimber, in the Pelosi "I want my jet" thread).

I think the word you're looking for is hyperbole. It's a fairly common term.

I didn't think that was Jakee's intent. Perhaps he can post up "that he was just kidding".

Nah, I'd rather not stoop to your level of argument.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[NCclimber 0]

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What do you mean by "many posters"? 10? 20? 100? I've read CCW threads and I don't recall a whole lot of "I'm afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone".

Shall we say 10? I've got a bit of time on my hands today - do you think I can find 10 people who have posted to the effect that they would or do feel vulnerable if they were not able to carry a gun? Bonus points if I can find them all on JohnRich's UK threads.

Sure. Let's see 10 posters claiming they are "afraid to leave the house" without a loaded gun.

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I must have missed all those requests for what is "the best bullet for killing people".

Can't have been paying much attention then.

Let's see some posts, sport.

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Jokingly, eh? Nice back pedal. Anyone seriously making that claim.?

No backpedal. I honestly can't tell if some of them are joking or not. I'd also argue that it still speaks to the mindset I'm talking about that people would find that kind of joke amusing.

Of course, you could just ask. But then again, you could assume they're being serious, then make uninformed assertions about posters advocating the shooting of people and lying to the cops. How convenient.

Generally speaking, you seem pretty quick on picking up on the nuances or subtletites(sp?) of discussions. Funny how you missed the boat on the above topic.

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Of course, you weren't exagerating to present a dishonest stereotype, were you?

Uhh, like you would have a problem with that?

What are you talking about?

[craddock 0]

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You can look back on this forum and see just how many posters:

1. are afraid to leave the house without being able to shoot someone

How many? I am a steadfast supporter of Concealed Carry. I am active politicaly(not so much on these boards though) in my community and with my Congressmen and Senator. I have never carried a Concealed weapon, even though I am licensed to carry in over half the states in the county. But I am curious as to how many people here fit yout above statement. Key word is "Afraid"

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2 how many posters want to know what the best bullet for killing people is

How many? how many people have asked what is the best bullet for "killing People". I wish more people would ask about the proper bullet for defense. If someone is going to have a firearm for self defense, it is important to have a proper choice of ammuntion. They most likely will never need it but if they do, they don't need FMJ bullets peircing the walls if they fire and miss intended target. Asking about bullets is all about being responsible.

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3 how many posters reply to stories of succesful deterrance with the suggestion that it would have been much better if the OP had shot everyone instead of just scaring them off.

How many? Do you have examples of this? No? Anything else you want to make up?

That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.

[freethefly 6]

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Do you deny that many people here have posted of how vulnerable they would feel when not packing a gun?

Yesterday's events prove that it's not the brightest idea to depend on the kindness of criminals where your personal safety is concerned.

Yesterdays event only proves that campus security and procedures were sorely lacking.
2 hours between the first shot to the last shot?
Only an email sent to alert the facility?
Two things are certian; 1. no one has an exact answer on how to stop the next shooting and 2. there will be a "next shooting".
Pro gun and anti gun people need to stop their own war and put their heads together and come up with a plan that works for everyone. I would hate to have to give up my deer rifle due to crap like this. My rifle is a tool that puts meat on my table. I also would hate to see every Tom, Dick and Harry have a gun for their "protection".

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young