fudd 0 #1 December 31, 2006 This statement by AnnasSkies in another thread about Saddams execution spawned some reactions. Since it has (almost) nothing to do with the execution it deserves it's own thread. Quote"I could name lots of other dictators... And the best example is Bush... I think we Europeans should send troups to the US to take out Bush, he is a dangerous man..." It takes the point of view to the extreme, but it should be noted that from our point of view here on the other side of the point it doesn't seem that crazy. Of course we know the US isn't a dictatorship, but it seems like alarmingly many citizens of the US doesn't care too much about participating in the democracy. That is a problem that is not unique to the US, but a trend for much of the western world. I also really hope the world doesn't come to a point where Europe sends troops to restore democracy in the US. The statement is about as serious as the US sending troops to invade France. What worries us "non-americans" is that the US line of foreign policies are beginning to be a threath to global stabililty and peace. The course of action taken and the "War on terror" is polarizing the world and setting peace processes back decades. When the war on Afghanistan begun, I wasn't thrilled, but it had the backing of the UN. It was a war with the right intentions, but for the wrong reasons. (Reason: the need to strike back because of 9/11. The intention: to restore/create democracy and human rights in Afghanistan.) Iraq was another animal. the US did not have the backing of the UN, but went along anyway and the ultimatium was "You are either with us or against us". So when i.e. Norway didn't want to back your invation, the US decleared us an enimy. That's really not a nice way to go around. Take a look of who supported the invation in the first place. Maybe it would have been right to hold on a little while before letting arrogance get in the way. The US economy is big, and what happens to it impacts the rest of the world. My suspicion is that the hidden agenda for the war in Iraq has a lot to do with keeping US dollars as the currency needed to buy oil and less to do with WMDs and Al-Quaida. If the nations of the world wouldn't need dollars to buy their oil, what would happend to the US economy? It might be a real danger that it would collapse. , While the growing anti americanism here in Europe makes us more and more think that the US would deserve it, the world wouldn't be better off, as it would impact the world economy and security to much. Balance would be shifted, and I really don't trust that Russia and China is the best nations to provide world peace yet. What the world need is a US that strives for peace, justice and tolerance. Not a US that declares "Axis of evil" and aggressivly goes to war on anyone who has another point of view. So when europeans want's to send troops to the US it's because we worry that corporate america is running things a little bit more than the democracy. Capitalism threathens democracy as the huge corporations get more and more politcal powers. There must be balance. It's really sad that the world has turned towards more polarization. People need to wake up and focus more on solutions. There is a lot of things I'm not to found of with US culture that are invading us. I could do without McDonalds, Coca Cola and tacky reality tv-shows. The irony is that while I dislike the big US corporations and the current style of government, all the people from the US that I meet are open. friendly, understanding and nice. And just to prove that the war in Iraq is totally wrong.: How many skydives a day does the war in Iraq cost? There a lot of C-130s over there that can be put to much better use There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #2 December 31, 2006 This statement should be listened to by the american readers here. It is a neutral standpoint with common sense. Cultures from Europe etc. that have stood the test of time, are stable and fair = bugger all poverty! should be the model societys. the american style 'bend em over and fuck em up the ass' corporate giant and fat kid cultures are not really models that the rest of the world should move towards. The USA is still an adolescent country and it sure is still acting like it. the american people seem to be nice, altough a little loud and over bearing sometimes. they generally have a heart of gold."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #3 December 31, 2006 um, you seem to be mixing things up here. It is Big Government applied to foreign policy, combined with America being the Big Boy on the block (militarily), that is the culprit here. An Intrusive Foreign Policy in such a context, goes hand in hand with the idea of the Almighty Government as the great savior of the people. The asshole Neo-Cons currently in power in the USA have delusions of grandeur & need to be taken down a peg. I think there are already signs that Americans are getting fed up with them. The cultures from Europe are not perfect models that everyone should aspire to, any more than America is. Overall, we've got a good thing going here in the USA, thankyouverymuch, and our democracy is as old as any democracies in Europe. Go back in time further than America's founding, & those European governments weren't even democracies, so they haven't withstood the test of time any better than America, since modern-day European societies are of a different nature than they were in the past. As for the USA:It's just the current assholes that want to turn America into something it wasn't supposed to be that's the problem (ie, some kind of modern-day Roman empire) First the Neo-Cons said the Iraq war was about WMDs. They had to drop that. Then they said it was about making sure Iraq doesn't become a haven for terrorists. It is now the Disneyland for terrorists. So now the Neo-Cons say that the idea is to actually make Iraq into a haven for terrorists, so that we can fight them over in Iraq instead of here. They don't explain why the presence of terrorists in Iraq will mean no terrorist attacks in the USA, however. Osama bin Laden couldn't have asked for a better recruiter than Bush. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #4 December 31, 2006 Quote>It is Big Government applied to foreign policy, combined with America being the Big Boy on the block (militarily), that is the culprit here. An Intrusive Foreign Policy in such a context, goes hand in hand with the idea of the Almighty Government as the great savior of the people. The asshole Neo-Cons currently in power in the USA have delusions of grandeur & need to be taken down a peg. I think there are already signs that Americans are getting fed up with them. Agreed >The cultures from Europe are not perfect models that everyone should aspire to, any more than America is. Overall, we've got a good thing going here in the USA, thankyouverymuch, and our democracy is as old as any democracies in Europe. Go back in time further than America's founding, & those European governments weren't even democracies, so they haven't withstood the test of time any better than America, since modern-day European societies are of a different nature than they were in the past. If you break your arm in the USA and don't have insurance...... what do you do? why do you have to step over Bums over the street in the states when you visit? in europe every one was quite well of as far as I could see. I'm not saying all of europe is wonderful and yes the govornment structures have changed in the last couple of hundred years but culture is a different story. Clture directly reflects the actions of the said people. america dismissed its culture when it took over the real estate and created its own culture (costitution) and bread a very large culture of gun slingers and rednecks. this is a good amount of the problem we face today. not to say all americans are rednecks just the cuture reflects this."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #5 December 31, 2006 QuoteThe USA is still an adolescent country and it sure is still acting like it. Not to put too fine a point on things, but could you please tell me which European country has had a government longer than the U.S.? Yes, yes, countries have kept the same names . . . France, England, Germany . . . but have their governments actually been intact for as long as say . . . 200 years? France? Well, clearly no. Germany? No. England? Uh . . . no. Hmm . . . adolescent country my ass!quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #6 December 31, 2006 I don't even know where to begin with that post. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #7 December 31, 2006 QuoteIf you break your arm in the USA and don't have insurance...... what do you do? Not sure about anywhere else, but in LA you go to county hospital. You may have to wait for 8 hours, but they'll fix you up as well as anywhere else. Quotewhy do you have to step over Bums over the street in the states when you visit? in europe every one was quite well of as far as I could see That's changing, at least in France. The French social system is imploding, as it is not financially sustainable. It's going to get painful... Quoteamerica dismissed its culture when it took over the real estate and created its own culture (costitution) and bread a very large culture of gun slingers and rednecks. this is a good amount of the problem we face today. Hmmm... The majority of "gun slingers" were first generation Europeans... And unlike most European countries, the US can claim it has never sunk into totalitarism. Some have tried, but the subtlety of the US Constitution has found ways of preventing such abuses. I think the problem we face today has to do with certain individuals, not with American society or Americans in general. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #8 December 31, 2006 Quote>Not to put too fine a point on things, but could you please tell me which European country has had a government longer than the U.S.? Yes, yes, countries have kept the same names . . . France, England, Germany . . . but have their governments actually been intact for as long as say . . . 200 years? France? Well, clearly no. Germany? No. England? Uh . . . no. Hmm . . . adolescent country my ass! If you read my last post you will see that i was not talking about the structures of the govornments. I was talking about the attitude of the people and govornments. we will assume that all the govornments are adolescent as it has been commented that none of the democracys have had the chance to stand the test of time. France? 16 acting like 23 kinda hip but with attitude and arrogance. Germany? 16 acting like 30 and kinda stiff, quite intellegent though and seen many social problems in the past. England? 16 acting 40, quite conservative and can't cook. well spoken and content. U.S.A. 16 going on 14, loud, violent, and greedy/selfish, stubbon and can be known to throw small tanties if it doesn't get its way. the worst idiosyncrasy of the USA is the self importance! "When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #9 December 31, 2006 Yes, I agree with everything in your post, your statements are pretty much accurate. Let us all hope European nations dont come to the point of having to take out Bush and his evil cohorts, I sincerely hope there is still enough people left in this country with half a brain that will do the job. The Democrats have overrun Congress and are in the process of bring allegations against the Bush administration, so there is a light still left on at the end of the tunnel. Dont give up on America yet, not all of us are arrogant, selfish, greedy dumbasses straight off of the farm. See the documentary "Farenheit 9-11". This is a very accurate documentary that puts things in perspective. Namely, Bush family has always been in very close relatiions with the Saudis in the realm of oil contracts, which have benefited the Bush family immensly. When Hussein built up military power, the Saudis became uneasy and felt threatened. 7% of Americas economy is owned by the Saudis. This is the reason for the initial and current intervention in Iraq, the Saudis felt threatened, and if the Saudis pulled all of their assests out of the US economy, it would cause another great depression paralleling that of the 1930s. Bin Laden became insanely jealous when the Saudis accepted help by the US against the Hussein threat, he thought he had the Saudis cornered into accepting his help, but the Bush govt thwarted his plans. He then planned a series of terrorist attacks against the US finally leading to the 9-11 attack, as an act of revenge for thwarting his plans to "save the Saudis" from Sadam Hussein. Bush family also had close relations with the Taliban, not long before 9-11, he invited Taliban leaders to his ranch in Texas. This is the reason why the response to 9-11 was minimal and pretty much "for show". They did not intend to ever catch Taliban leaders or Bin Laden, just make it look like they were doing something about the 9-11 attacks. All for show, nothing else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhys 0 #10 December 31, 2006 Quote>Dont give up on America yet, not all of us are arrogant, selfish, greedy dumbasses straight off of the farm. LOL you sure aint! American can be wonderful people, it is the bad eggs that are spoiling the good times. I'm glad to hear alligations against the bush admin. are going ahead. there is still hope....."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #11 December 31, 2006 QuoteQuote>it is the bad eggs that are spoiling the good times.. Youre preaching to the choir. Bad eggs that, in thier arrogance and stupidity, believe idiotic propaganda put out by Bush controlled media. Bush does control much of the media, so it may look like there are a lot of American supporters, but the reality of that may be very different. Consider the Congressional elections, Democrats taking over. That is the product of the majority saying "Bush, get out of here and take your idiotic party with you". Hitler didnt win Europe, and Bush wont win America. For a while it may look like he is, but the truth is out there, and he and his party will lose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites moodyskydiver 0 #12 December 31, 2006 Well, theres always hope that there will be some nutcase in a book depository somewhere.... *do not take my post seriously guys.*I'm from TX and thats just the first thing that popped into my head while reading the OP. "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #13 December 31, 2006 QuoteFirst the Neo-Cons said the Iraq war was about WMDs. They had to drop that. Then they said it was about making sure Iraq doesn't become a haven for terrorists. It is now the Disneyland for terrorists. So now the Neo-Cons say that the idea is to actually make Iraq into a haven for terrorists, so that we can fight them over in Iraq instead of here. They don't explain why the presence of terrorists in Iraq will mean no terrorist attacks in the USA, however.. The prepetuation of lies and excuses by the Bush administation has long entered the realm of "just plain stupid". So, like you said, first it was the WMDs. Like, North Korea, South Africa, India, Pakistan, all third world that really do have WMDs but no effort was made to attack them. Wonder why? So then that excuse was abandoned and replaced with another excuse, when that didnt hold, Bush temporarily ran out of excuses, and replaced the last one with "because its the right thing to do". So we were all left with the reason, that the US was attacking Iraq and overthrowing the government because "it was the right thing to do". Remember that one? Man, I just cant believe how stupid that was. We have a stupid person occupying the presidency in this country, and THAT is scary. Forget about terrorism or buildings comming down, thats the least of what we have to worry about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #14 December 31, 2006 QuoteWell, theres always hope that there will be some nutcase in a book depository somewhere.... *do not take my post seriously guys.*I'm from TX and thats just the first thing that popped into my head while reading the OP. LOL Wont do any good, there's still Cheney and the rest of em. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #15 December 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe USA is still an adolescent country and it sure is still acting like it. Not to put too fine a point on things, but could you please tell me which European country has had a government longer than the U.S.? Yes, yes, countries have kept the same names . . . France, England, Germany . . . but have their governments actually been intact for as long as say . . . 200 years? France? Well, clearly no. Germany? No. England? Uh . . . no. Hmm . . . adolescent country my ass! America? Nope, on all counts. From union of states, to nation, to the recent one party dictatorship that disregards the will of the people and of the states. Youre right, we havent reached the point of adolescence yet.....still trying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #16 December 31, 2006 <> Wodya mean? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #17 December 31, 2006 At what point did the actual power of the country flip from monarchy to parliament? At one point the monarch held absolute power; now it's a figurehead. Compare this to the U.S. Constitution wherein the branches of government have remained intact for over 200 years. I may be wrong here, but I think the U.S. is actually one of the longest contiguous forms of government currently on the planet.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #18 December 31, 2006 <> - Yeah right... depends upon your definition of government. You could say that the US of A did not have a proper government until they let All coloured people vote, before that it would have been a sham. Or we all could only claim a proper government AFTER women were allowed to vote. How about 1215 at Runnymede when the Barons rose up against the King and asked hime nicely to sign the Magna Carter. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,648 #19 December 31, 2006 QuoteAt what point did the actual power of the country flip from monarchy to parliament? . 1649... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #20 December 31, 2006 Hmmm... The majority of "gun slingers" were first generation Europeans... And unlike most European countries, the US can claim it has never sunk into totalitarism. Some have tried, but the subtlety of the US Constitution has found ways of preventing such abuses. I think the problem we face today has to do with certain individuals, not with American society or Americans in general. I think that was very well stated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,648 #21 December 31, 2006 QuoteHmmm... The majority of "gun slingers" were first generation Europeans... And unlike most European countries, the US can claim it has never sunk into totalitarism. Some have tried, but the subtlety of the US Constitution has found ways of preventing such abuses. I think the problem we face today has to do with certain individuals, not with American society or Americans in general. I think that was very well stated. A few European countries sank into totalitarianism, some had totalitarianism thrust upon them by invaders, and others have had stable governments for hundreds of years.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,648 #22 December 31, 2006 Quote I may be wrong here, but I think the U.S. is actually one of the longest contiguous forms of government currently on the planet. A long way to go to beat Iceland.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Richards 0 #23 December 31, 2006 QuoteSo when europeans want's to send troops to the US I'm no expert but I am curious. Which countries do you propose will use shock and awe to knock out the US military and occupy America? France... Germany? QuoteCapitalism threathens democracy as the huge corporations get more and more politcal powers. Can you give an example where capitalism (not the actions of a capitalist country) has threatened democracy? QuoteThere is a lot of things I'm not to found of with US culture that are invading us. I could do without McDonalds, Coca Cola and tacky reality tv-shows. Have US troops forced your leaders to allow McDonalds and ordered your networks to broadcast American shows? QuoteAnd just to prove that the war in Iraq is totally wrong.: How many skydives a day does the war in Iraq cost? There a lot of C-130s over there that can be put to much better use The rightness/wrongness of the war is not decided by the cost. A just war is worth unlimitted skydives and an unjust war isn't worth a single penny and certainly not human lives My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumprunner 0 #9 December 31, 2006 Yes, I agree with everything in your post, your statements are pretty much accurate. Let us all hope European nations dont come to the point of having to take out Bush and his evil cohorts, I sincerely hope there is still enough people left in this country with half a brain that will do the job. The Democrats have overrun Congress and are in the process of bring allegations against the Bush administration, so there is a light still left on at the end of the tunnel. Dont give up on America yet, not all of us are arrogant, selfish, greedy dumbasses straight off of the farm. See the documentary "Farenheit 9-11". This is a very accurate documentary that puts things in perspective. Namely, Bush family has always been in very close relatiions with the Saudis in the realm of oil contracts, which have benefited the Bush family immensly. When Hussein built up military power, the Saudis became uneasy and felt threatened. 7% of Americas economy is owned by the Saudis. This is the reason for the initial and current intervention in Iraq, the Saudis felt threatened, and if the Saudis pulled all of their assests out of the US economy, it would cause another great depression paralleling that of the 1930s. Bin Laden became insanely jealous when the Saudis accepted help by the US against the Hussein threat, he thought he had the Saudis cornered into accepting his help, but the Bush govt thwarted his plans. He then planned a series of terrorist attacks against the US finally leading to the 9-11 attack, as an act of revenge for thwarting his plans to "save the Saudis" from Sadam Hussein. Bush family also had close relations with the Taliban, not long before 9-11, he invited Taliban leaders to his ranch in Texas. This is the reason why the response to 9-11 was minimal and pretty much "for show". They did not intend to ever catch Taliban leaders or Bin Laden, just make it look like they were doing something about the 9-11 attacks. All for show, nothing else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhys 0 #10 December 31, 2006 Quote>Dont give up on America yet, not all of us are arrogant, selfish, greedy dumbasses straight off of the farm. LOL you sure aint! American can be wonderful people, it is the bad eggs that are spoiling the good times. I'm glad to hear alligations against the bush admin. are going ahead. there is still hope....."When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #11 December 31, 2006 QuoteQuote>it is the bad eggs that are spoiling the good times.. Youre preaching to the choir. Bad eggs that, in thier arrogance and stupidity, believe idiotic propaganda put out by Bush controlled media. Bush does control much of the media, so it may look like there are a lot of American supporters, but the reality of that may be very different. Consider the Congressional elections, Democrats taking over. That is the product of the majority saying "Bush, get out of here and take your idiotic party with you". Hitler didnt win Europe, and Bush wont win America. For a while it may look like he is, but the truth is out there, and he and his party will lose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites moodyskydiver 0 #12 December 31, 2006 Well, theres always hope that there will be some nutcase in a book depository somewhere.... *do not take my post seriously guys.*I'm from TX and thats just the first thing that popped into my head while reading the OP. "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #13 December 31, 2006 QuoteFirst the Neo-Cons said the Iraq war was about WMDs. They had to drop that. Then they said it was about making sure Iraq doesn't become a haven for terrorists. It is now the Disneyland for terrorists. So now the Neo-Cons say that the idea is to actually make Iraq into a haven for terrorists, so that we can fight them over in Iraq instead of here. They don't explain why the presence of terrorists in Iraq will mean no terrorist attacks in the USA, however.. The prepetuation of lies and excuses by the Bush administation has long entered the realm of "just plain stupid". So, like you said, first it was the WMDs. Like, North Korea, South Africa, India, Pakistan, all third world that really do have WMDs but no effort was made to attack them. Wonder why? So then that excuse was abandoned and replaced with another excuse, when that didnt hold, Bush temporarily ran out of excuses, and replaced the last one with "because its the right thing to do". So we were all left with the reason, that the US was attacking Iraq and overthrowing the government because "it was the right thing to do". Remember that one? Man, I just cant believe how stupid that was. We have a stupid person occupying the presidency in this country, and THAT is scary. Forget about terrorism or buildings comming down, thats the least of what we have to worry about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #14 December 31, 2006 QuoteWell, theres always hope that there will be some nutcase in a book depository somewhere.... *do not take my post seriously guys.*I'm from TX and thats just the first thing that popped into my head while reading the OP. LOL Wont do any good, there's still Cheney and the rest of em. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #15 December 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe USA is still an adolescent country and it sure is still acting like it. Not to put too fine a point on things, but could you please tell me which European country has had a government longer than the U.S.? Yes, yes, countries have kept the same names . . . France, England, Germany . . . but have their governments actually been intact for as long as say . . . 200 years? France? Well, clearly no. Germany? No. England? Uh . . . no. Hmm . . . adolescent country my ass! America? Nope, on all counts. From union of states, to nation, to the recent one party dictatorship that disregards the will of the people and of the states. Youre right, we havent reached the point of adolescence yet.....still trying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #16 December 31, 2006 <> Wodya mean? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #17 December 31, 2006 At what point did the actual power of the country flip from monarchy to parliament? At one point the monarch held absolute power; now it's a figurehead. Compare this to the U.S. Constitution wherein the branches of government have remained intact for over 200 years. I may be wrong here, but I think the U.S. is actually one of the longest contiguous forms of government currently on the planet.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #18 December 31, 2006 <> - Yeah right... depends upon your definition of government. You could say that the US of A did not have a proper government until they let All coloured people vote, before that it would have been a sham. Or we all could only claim a proper government AFTER women were allowed to vote. How about 1215 at Runnymede when the Barons rose up against the King and asked hime nicely to sign the Magna Carter. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,648 #19 December 31, 2006 QuoteAt what point did the actual power of the country flip from monarchy to parliament? . 1649... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #20 December 31, 2006 Hmmm... The majority of "gun slingers" were first generation Europeans... And unlike most European countries, the US can claim it has never sunk into totalitarism. Some have tried, but the subtlety of the US Constitution has found ways of preventing such abuses. I think the problem we face today has to do with certain individuals, not with American society or Americans in general. I think that was very well stated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,648 #21 December 31, 2006 QuoteHmmm... The majority of "gun slingers" were first generation Europeans... And unlike most European countries, the US can claim it has never sunk into totalitarism. Some have tried, but the subtlety of the US Constitution has found ways of preventing such abuses. I think the problem we face today has to do with certain individuals, not with American society or Americans in general. I think that was very well stated. A few European countries sank into totalitarianism, some had totalitarianism thrust upon them by invaders, and others have had stable governments for hundreds of years.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumprunner 0 #11 December 31, 2006 QuoteQuote>it is the bad eggs that are spoiling the good times.. Youre preaching to the choir. Bad eggs that, in thier arrogance and stupidity, believe idiotic propaganda put out by Bush controlled media. Bush does control much of the media, so it may look like there are a lot of American supporters, but the reality of that may be very different. Consider the Congressional elections, Democrats taking over. That is the product of the majority saying "Bush, get out of here and take your idiotic party with you". Hitler didnt win Europe, and Bush wont win America. For a while it may look like he is, but the truth is out there, and he and his party will lose. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites moodyskydiver 0 #12 December 31, 2006 Well, theres always hope that there will be some nutcase in a book depository somewhere.... *do not take my post seriously guys.*I'm from TX and thats just the first thing that popped into my head while reading the OP. "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #13 December 31, 2006 QuoteFirst the Neo-Cons said the Iraq war was about WMDs. They had to drop that. Then they said it was about making sure Iraq doesn't become a haven for terrorists. It is now the Disneyland for terrorists. So now the Neo-Cons say that the idea is to actually make Iraq into a haven for terrorists, so that we can fight them over in Iraq instead of here. They don't explain why the presence of terrorists in Iraq will mean no terrorist attacks in the USA, however.. The prepetuation of lies and excuses by the Bush administation has long entered the realm of "just plain stupid". So, like you said, first it was the WMDs. Like, North Korea, South Africa, India, Pakistan, all third world that really do have WMDs but no effort was made to attack them. Wonder why? So then that excuse was abandoned and replaced with another excuse, when that didnt hold, Bush temporarily ran out of excuses, and replaced the last one with "because its the right thing to do". So we were all left with the reason, that the US was attacking Iraq and overthrowing the government because "it was the right thing to do". Remember that one? Man, I just cant believe how stupid that was. We have a stupid person occupying the presidency in this country, and THAT is scary. Forget about terrorism or buildings comming down, thats the least of what we have to worry about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #14 December 31, 2006 QuoteWell, theres always hope that there will be some nutcase in a book depository somewhere.... *do not take my post seriously guys.*I'm from TX and thats just the first thing that popped into my head while reading the OP. LOL Wont do any good, there's still Cheney and the rest of em. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jumprunner 0 #15 December 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe USA is still an adolescent country and it sure is still acting like it. Not to put too fine a point on things, but could you please tell me which European country has had a government longer than the U.S.? Yes, yes, countries have kept the same names . . . France, England, Germany . . . but have their governments actually been intact for as long as say . . . 200 years? France? Well, clearly no. Germany? No. England? Uh . . . no. Hmm . . . adolescent country my ass! America? Nope, on all counts. From union of states, to nation, to the recent one party dictatorship that disregards the will of the people and of the states. Youre right, we havent reached the point of adolescence yet.....still trying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #16 December 31, 2006 <> Wodya mean? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #17 December 31, 2006 At what point did the actual power of the country flip from monarchy to parliament? At one point the monarch held absolute power; now it's a figurehead. Compare this to the U.S. Constitution wherein the branches of government have remained intact for over 200 years. I may be wrong here, but I think the U.S. is actually one of the longest contiguous forms of government currently on the planet.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #18 December 31, 2006 <> - Yeah right... depends upon your definition of government. You could say that the US of A did not have a proper government until they let All coloured people vote, before that it would have been a sham. Or we all could only claim a proper government AFTER women were allowed to vote. How about 1215 at Runnymede when the Barons rose up against the King and asked hime nicely to sign the Magna Carter. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,648 #19 December 31, 2006 QuoteAt what point did the actual power of the country flip from monarchy to parliament? . 1649... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #20 December 31, 2006 Hmmm... The majority of "gun slingers" were first generation Europeans... And unlike most European countries, the US can claim it has never sunk into totalitarism. Some have tried, but the subtlety of the US Constitution has found ways of preventing such abuses. I think the problem we face today has to do with certain individuals, not with American society or Americans in general. I think that was very well stated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moodyskydiver 0 #12 December 31, 2006 Well, theres always hope that there will be some nutcase in a book depository somewhere.... *do not take my post seriously guys.*I'm from TX and thats just the first thing that popped into my head while reading the OP. "...just an earthbound misfit, I." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumprunner 0 #13 December 31, 2006 QuoteFirst the Neo-Cons said the Iraq war was about WMDs. They had to drop that. Then they said it was about making sure Iraq doesn't become a haven for terrorists. It is now the Disneyland for terrorists. So now the Neo-Cons say that the idea is to actually make Iraq into a haven for terrorists, so that we can fight them over in Iraq instead of here. They don't explain why the presence of terrorists in Iraq will mean no terrorist attacks in the USA, however.. The prepetuation of lies and excuses by the Bush administation has long entered the realm of "just plain stupid". So, like you said, first it was the WMDs. Like, North Korea, South Africa, India, Pakistan, all third world that really do have WMDs but no effort was made to attack them. Wonder why? So then that excuse was abandoned and replaced with another excuse, when that didnt hold, Bush temporarily ran out of excuses, and replaced the last one with "because its the right thing to do". So we were all left with the reason, that the US was attacking Iraq and overthrowing the government because "it was the right thing to do". Remember that one? Man, I just cant believe how stupid that was. We have a stupid person occupying the presidency in this country, and THAT is scary. Forget about terrorism or buildings comming down, thats the least of what we have to worry about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumprunner 0 #14 December 31, 2006 QuoteWell, theres always hope that there will be some nutcase in a book depository somewhere.... *do not take my post seriously guys.*I'm from TX and thats just the first thing that popped into my head while reading the OP. LOL Wont do any good, there's still Cheney and the rest of em. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumprunner 0 #15 December 31, 2006 QuoteQuoteThe USA is still an adolescent country and it sure is still acting like it. Not to put too fine a point on things, but could you please tell me which European country has had a government longer than the U.S.? Yes, yes, countries have kept the same names . . . France, England, Germany . . . but have their governments actually been intact for as long as say . . . 200 years? France? Well, clearly no. Germany? No. England? Uh . . . no. Hmm . . . adolescent country my ass! America? Nope, on all counts. From union of states, to nation, to the recent one party dictatorship that disregards the will of the people and of the states. Youre right, we havent reached the point of adolescence yet.....still trying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #16 December 31, 2006 <> Wodya mean? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #17 December 31, 2006 At what point did the actual power of the country flip from monarchy to parliament? At one point the monarch held absolute power; now it's a figurehead. Compare this to the U.S. Constitution wherein the branches of government have remained intact for over 200 years. I may be wrong here, but I think the U.S. is actually one of the longest contiguous forms of government currently on the planet.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #18 December 31, 2006 <> - Yeah right... depends upon your definition of government. You could say that the US of A did not have a proper government until they let All coloured people vote, before that it would have been a sham. Or we all could only claim a proper government AFTER women were allowed to vote. How about 1215 at Runnymede when the Barons rose up against the King and asked hime nicely to sign the Magna Carter. (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #19 December 31, 2006 QuoteAt what point did the actual power of the country flip from monarchy to parliament? . 1649... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #20 December 31, 2006 Hmmm... The majority of "gun slingers" were first generation Europeans... And unlike most European countries, the US can claim it has never sunk into totalitarism. Some have tried, but the subtlety of the US Constitution has found ways of preventing such abuses. I think the problem we face today has to do with certain individuals, not with American society or Americans in general. I think that was very well stated. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #21 December 31, 2006 QuoteHmmm... The majority of "gun slingers" were first generation Europeans... And unlike most European countries, the US can claim it has never sunk into totalitarism. Some have tried, but the subtlety of the US Constitution has found ways of preventing such abuses. I think the problem we face today has to do with certain individuals, not with American society or Americans in general. I think that was very well stated. A few European countries sank into totalitarianism, some had totalitarianism thrust upon them by invaders, and others have had stable governments for hundreds of years.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #22 December 31, 2006 Quote I may be wrong here, but I think the U.S. is actually one of the longest contiguous forms of government currently on the planet. A long way to go to beat Iceland.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #23 December 31, 2006 QuoteSo when europeans want's to send troops to the US I'm no expert but I am curious. Which countries do you propose will use shock and awe to knock out the US military and occupy America? France... Germany? QuoteCapitalism threathens democracy as the huge corporations get more and more politcal powers. Can you give an example where capitalism (not the actions of a capitalist country) has threatened democracy? QuoteThere is a lot of things I'm not to found of with US culture that are invading us. I could do without McDonalds, Coca Cola and tacky reality tv-shows. Have US troops forced your leaders to allow McDonalds and ordered your networks to broadcast American shows? QuoteAnd just to prove that the war in Iraq is totally wrong.: How many skydives a day does the war in Iraq cost? There a lot of C-130s over there that can be put to much better use The rightness/wrongness of the war is not decided by the cost. A just war is worth unlimitted skydives and an unjust war isn't worth a single penny and certainly not human lives My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #24 December 31, 2006 "Compare this to the U.S. Constitution wherein the branches of government have remained intact for over 200 years" _____Ahem. Scuse me. Seems like the Executive branch clearly does want it wants nowadays. Stacks the SCOTUS and Congress just goes along w/ anything (legal or not) for our safety don't ya know. This shit has to stop and stop SOONI hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #25 January 1, 2007 QuoteStacks the SCOTUS and Congress just goes along w/ anything (legal or not) for our safety don't ya know. This shit has to stop and stop SOON I believe this last November was a good indication that the basics of the system are working as intended.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
