willard 0
SkyDekker 1,139
QuoteUm dude, in war winning IS everything.
define winning.
If the US drops a couple of nuclear bombs in Iraq, followed by complete ethnic cleansing of all people in Iraq, then by all accounts they might claim they have "won" that war. However, I am pretty sure that win won't be so good for the US in the longer term.
rushmc 18
You proven you have no idea of what happened back then.......
"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln
QuoteQuoteIt's simply ASTOUNDING to me that people will look at winning WWII as a failure of Truman. Japan's offer to the US was PEarl Harbor. They started it. We won it. Enough said. Hindsight is brutal.
Why not focus on his getting us involved in Korea? How about laying the groundwork for Vietnam (a third of our foreign aid went to support Colonial France in Vietnam)?
What about Truman's outright seizure of private steel production facilities? Oh, yeah - without Congressional assent(for what that's worth).
I'm not saying it a was failure, just could have been handled diffeently. Winninf isn't everything, the way you win is also important.
Truman was a mixed bag for the above reasons, FDR was far better.
FDR WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE DAMNED BOMB! At the time it was used, it was viewed as nothing more than a military weapon. That is all - a conventional bomb of immense power.
FDR - I find him for many reasons to be one of the worst presidents. No president before or since has seized such control over the nation and people as a whole as did FDR. He is nearly completely responsible for the huge federal government we have today - he set the model for the Presidential bully pulpit and the expansion/intrusion of the federal government into everyone's lives.
Anyone recall what FDR did to our Japanese citizens?
FDR was elected because of the Great Depression. During his first and second terms, it actually got worse. And yet, he was viewed as the savior of the American common man - LBJ knew it well - "Get their peckers in your pocket and they'll vote for you."
FDR was a "great" president. He set the model for federal dominance of the country.
Much like Bush, Sr. set the model for Presidential warmaking with the Gulf War.
Much like Clinton set the model that Bush, Jr. uses of the "President as a mob boss - don't fuck with him."
Edited to add: I note that TJ - my choice - also increased federal power with the Louisiana purchase...
My wife is hotter than your wife.
ExAFO 0
QuoteWho was the best US president to date??
William Henry Harrison. He dropped dead before he could fuck things up (30 days, 11 hours and 30 minutes).
Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.
<>
Didn't seem to do the Germans and Japanesse much harm did it?
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Didn't seem to do the Germans and Japanesse much harm did it?
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Quote
Um dude, in war winning IS everything.
Unless you are satisfied with the outcome of coming in second.
If that's how you feel, does that mean you don't begrudge al Queda for the methods by which they're prosecuting their holy war against us?
Blues,
Dave
"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)
(drink Mountain Dew)
Lucky... 0
QuoteI'm not saying it a was failure, just could have been handled diffeently. Winninf isn't everything, the way you win is also important.
Truman was a mixed bag for the above reasons, FDR was far better.
Um dude, in war winning IS everything.
Unless you are satisfied with the outcome of coming in second.
NO, winning by way of paying teh piper later on is a superficial victory. Japan won the South Pacific, but lost the rest. Germany won the invasion of Austria, Poland and others, but lost the grand war. So we win some little invasion, but the world gets sick of us and wipes our asses; did we win? The world cuts us off (embargo), did we win? In order to win, you nust actually win for a while, not just today.
We started the atomic/nuclear era, I'll tell you if we won in the future.
Lucky... 0
QuoteYou proven you have no idea of what happened back then.......
You've established you're the king of one-liners without substance.
Lucky... 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteIt's simply ASTOUNDING to me that people will look at winning WWII as a failure of Truman. Japan's offer to the US was PEarl Harbor. They started it. We won it. Enough said. Hindsight is brutal.
Why not focus on his getting us involved in Korea? How about laying the groundwork for Vietnam (a third of our foreign aid went to support Colonial France in Vietnam)?
What about Truman's outright seizure of private steel production facilities? Oh, yeah - without Congressional assent(for what that's worth).
I'm not saying it a was failure, just could have been handled diffeently. Winninf isn't everything, the way you win is also important.
Truman was a mixed bag for the above reasons, FDR was far better.
FDR WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE DAMNED BOMB! At the time it was used, it was viewed as nothing more than a military weapon. That is all - a conventional bomb of immense power.
FDR - I find him for many reasons to be one of the worst presidents. No president before or since has seized such control over the nation and people as a whole as did FDR. He is nearly completely responsible for the huge federal government we have today - he set the model for the Presidential bully pulpit and the expansion/intrusion of the federal government into everyone's lives.
Anyone recall what FDR did to our Japanese citizens?
FDR was elected because of the Great Depression. During his first and second terms, it actually got worse. And yet, he was viewed as the savior of the American common man - LBJ knew it well - "Get their peckers in your pocket and they'll vote for you."
FDR was a "great" president. He set the model for federal dominance of the country.
Much like Bush, Sr. set the model for Presidential warmaking with the Gulf War.
Much like Clinton set the model that Bush, Jr. uses of the "President as a mob boss - don't fuck with him."
Edited to add: I note that TJ - my choice - also increased federal power with the Louisiana purchase...
QuoteFDR WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE DAMNED BOMB!
Sure, the Manhattan Project. I've read some dispute as to whether he knew of the devastation of it. McCarthur had a lot to do with that was well as Japanese Internment. I think FDR was a bit of a Bush in regard to listening to so-called intelligence.
QuoteAt the time it was used, it was viewed as nothing more than a military weapon. That is all - a conventional bomb of immense power.
Uh, I don;t kn ow where you get that. Hell, theyt chose the flattest of the islands, Tinian, to load it and decided to arm it in the air. Point is, this was no regualr weapon, they knew it was the mother of all bombs.
QuoteFDR - I find him for many reasons to be one of the worst presidents.
Let's stop here for a second. As much as I like your opinions on many perhaps most things, you dump on labor, so I think that attitude spills over on FDR as he was probably the best president ever in regard to helping labor.
QuoteNo president before or since has seized such control over the nation and people as a whole as did FDR.
Are you kidding? This current criminal has illegally wiretapped, lied to get us into war and so on and on and on..... FDR took a piece of garbage economy, even worse than Clinton inherited and turned it into a gem.
QuoteHe is nearly completely responsible for the huge federal government we have today
As opposed to letting people LITTERALY fucking die in the streets by the droves? He took the Bonus Army crook's economy and made it very liveable. He laid the platform for worker's rights with the 1938 Fair Labor Standards Act. He obviously laid the template for Social Security so elderly people didn;t have to die in the streets. Yes, Lawrocket, he FUCKED the Hooverian rich and gave the people a chance to live - he was horrible and elected 4 times for it.
Quotehe set the model for the Presidential bully pulpit and the expansion/intrusion of the federal government into everyone's lives.
Come again? He set the stage for the Republican-packed (7-2) post Warren court to strip the privacy rights given by the Warren court. I guess I'd like to see your examples of these intrusions you speak of.
QuoteAnyone recall what FDR did to our Japanese citizens?
Absolutley, although he listened to McArthur, he WAS responsible for it. That is a black eye for him.
QuoteFDR was elected because of the Great Depression. During his first and second terms, it actually got worse. And yet, he was viewed as the savior of the American common man
Sure, your Bonus Army boy shoveling cash to the rich while the poor LITTERALLY die in the streets will get you tossed from office. Hell, there were communes popping up, even the rich were voting Hoover out.
I don't know which indicators you are looking at, but it isn't surprising to think the GD would take a decade to recover from.
QuoteLBJ knew it well - "Get their peckers in your pocket and they'll vote for you."
There's a great example, LBJ. Couldn;t we use a bigger loser like GW Bush?
QuoteFDR was a "great" president. He set the model for federal dominance of the country.
Maybe a fiscally advantaged person would feel that way, but the average citizen was so benefitted by FDR. If the feds don't intervene in a capitalist-controlled economy, we will have tyranny.
QuoteMuch like Bush, Sr. set the model for Presidential warmaking with the Gulf War.
I think it had been done before him. Is this your way of appearing to be neutral; throw in a Republican to the fire? Bush Sr had the sense to stop the invasion and get out. Dumbshit son thought he could win a war against an ideology and a religion.
QuoteMuch like Clinton set the model that Bush, Jr. uses of the "President as a mob boss - don't fuck with him."
Don't fuck with him? How do you classify the little impeachment thingy? They fucked with him, many people did. OK, you hate Clinton, he tried to bring rights to workers too.
mnealtx 0
QuoteMaybe a fiscally advantaged person would feel that way, but the average citizen was so benefitted by FDR. If the feds don't intervene in a capitalist-controlled economy, we will have tyranny.
My parents grew up during the Depression...and both cursed FDR's name. Unfortunately, I never thought to ask *why* they both hated him so much.
It made writing history papers in school...interesting, to say the least.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Quotehe set the model for the Presidential bully pulpit and the expansion/intrusion of the federal government into everyone's lives.
I disagree. Lincoln was really the first to set that ball in motion. His crashing blows to civil rights during his term and the war are monsterous. Yes he "freed the slaves" however, that was the only good thing he did for civil liberties. The rest of the changes he did "for the war" are scary beyond reason. Especially considering how the country operated back then.
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."
Um dude, in war winning IS everything.
Unless you are satisfied with the outcome of coming in second.
Right on! I searched all through the web and didn't find a single video clip or even a photo of the Japanese parading around after the surrender shouting, "We got second! We got second!"