Evolution - Satan's biggest brilliant and magnificent plan !!

[unformed 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

I have a hard time understanding people who believe that if scientifically-describable mechanisms are present, then
God must be absent.[Crazy] What is so heretical about the idea that God created a system that actually works?[Crazy]

Well, having come up with the 'wedge' idea to get god into schools through Intelligent Design they live in perpetual fear of a wedge being applied to them.

I read an article from answersingenesis that someone linked to which unequivocably stated that accepting the earth was older than 10,000 years was the first step in denying faith and being swallowed up by the evil secular lies. That kind of fear is hugely powerful.

And of course many of them are either idiots or insane.

Arguing with fundamentalists of any religion is about as fruitful as arguing with a cat.

Um.....I think that's an insult to cats.

This ad space for sale.

[jakee 1,259]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

I have a hard time understanding people who believe that if scientifically-describable mechanisms are present, then
God must be absent.[Crazy] What is so heretical about the idea that God created a system that actually works?[Crazy]

Well, having come up with the 'wedge' idea to get god into schools through Intelligent Design they live in perpetual fear of a wedge being applied to them.

I read an article from answersingenesis that someone linked to which unequivocably stated that accepting the earth was older than 10,000 years was the first step in denying faith and being swallowed up by the evil secular lies. That kind of fear is hugely powerful.

And of course many of them are either idiots or insane.

Arguing with fundamentalists of any religion is about as fruitful as arguing with a cat.

Um.....I think that's an insult to cats.

Good. Cats get away with far too much

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Stumpy 256]

Quote

I do AIDS research, so maybe someone could say I'm interfering with God's plan to punish all the homos.

And the sad thing is - someone probably will!!!

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[beowulf 1]

Quote

For some of us, evolutionary theory does not diminish, but in fact STRENGTHENS our belief in God.

I have a hard time understanding people who believe that if scientifically-describable mechanisms are present, then
God must be absent. What is so heretical about the idea that God created a system that actually works?

Science doesn't imply that God doesn't exist. There just isn't any evidence to prove god does or doesn't exist. If there is no evidence of something then why would I believe in it? To point out what we don't understand and say that because we don't fully understand and can't entirely prove everything that science is studying it must be the hand of god is not a very good rationale for proving the existence of god. It just doesn't make any sense.

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Quote

I do AIDS research, so maybe someone could say I'm interfering with God's plan to punish all the homos.

And the sad thing is - someone probably will!!!

Isn't that just what Reagan did? It's how he justified not funding AIDS research for several years.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[pajarito 0]

Quote

There just isn't any evidence to prove god does or doesn't exist.

The Creation proves the existence of God. For a painting to exist there must have been a painter. For a building to exist there must have been a builder. Irreducibly complex mechanisms in the natural world demonstrate creation and an intelligent source of required information.

Your conscience also bears witness to the existence of God. He has taken the time to place the knowledge of right and wrong on your heart. Whenever you sin against God, you do it with knowledge (conscience) that it is wrong. Accountability comes with understanding.

Quote

If there is no evidence of something then why would I believe in it?

I wouldn't.

[beowulf 1]

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean a supernatural being is responsible.

[kallend 1,647]

Quote

Quote

There just isn't any evidence to prove god does or doesn't exist.

The Creation proves the existence of God. For a painting to exist there must have been a painter. For a building to exist there must have been a builder. Irreducibly complex mechanisms in the natural world demonstrate creation and an intelligent source of required information.

Bad logic, nothing of the sort is implied by the existence of a rock or a planet or a galaxy.

Quote

Your conscience also bears witness to the existence of God.

It does nothing of the sort.

Quote

He has taken the time to place the knowledge of right and wrong on your heart. Whenever you sin against God, you do it with knowledge (conscience) that it is wrong. Accountability comes with understanding.

Quote

If there is no evidence of something then why would I believe in it?

I wouldn't.

Neither would I, which is why I'm an atheist.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wmw999 2,148]

Quote

For a painting to exist there must have been a painter

A flower grows from a seed; each one is different, each one is unique, and they are complex too. But their mechanism is to grow from a seed. But we see them growing from seeds, not being created as they are by God. I reject your argument that anything complex must have been created as it was.

Not that I don't believe in God; just that the "something that complicated must have been designed specifically" doesn't really seem to work.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ExAFO 0]

Quote

Quote

Arguing with fundamentalists of any religion is about as fruitful as arguing with a cat.

Um.....I think that's an insult to cats.

I agree. My cat is part Siamese, and is quite vocal. She enjoys a spirited debate, and protests loudly when things do not go her way.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[ExAFO 0]

Why is it not permitted by Fundies to view Evolution as a tool of God? Perhaps the "Evolutionists" have stumbled upon a process that God uses...

But nooo, the KJV-only sheeple have to take the bible at face value, and refuse to see that the words may be the slightest bit metaphorical...

This is why I have abandoned organized religion.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[quade 3]

Quote

It takes to long ..you evolutionists ..you side step the subject everytime - quite good with that really - by any means possible instead of addressing the fact that your kid is getting fed crap as fact at school - if i agree with something why do i have to go and type the exact same thing ..some people put my view down in black and white in a bit more orderly fashion(thanx) - please stick to the program

If school permits evolution to be taught etc. it should permit creationism as well until one is proven as absolute outright bull...would that be fair or not ?

The reason that simply copying and pasting a "wall of text" without attribution is that it leads people to believe that YOU have invested the time and effort to actually write those words.

In a different post you say, about yourself, that, "i have not been to forum school".

Here then is your first lesson.

Forums are a conversation, not in real-time, but sometimes nearly so.

To simply quote a "wall of text" is a waste of bandwidth and shows others that you do not wish to actually listen to anything they have to actually say.

Let's take it to it's logical conclusion.

You quote the entire book of Genesis.
Another person quotes the enitre first chapter of a chemistry text book.
You respond with the Book of Revelations.
Another person quotes the first three chapters of "A Brief History of Time".

See where I'm going here? It's not a conversation at all and, as I said before, a fairly bad use of bandwidth.

For additional notes on posting, please refer to this document.

Now I'd like to address another point of yours that you wrote about me, "you side step the subject everytime - quite good with that really - by any means possible instead of addressing the fact that your kid is getting fed crap as fact at school".

Let me assure you in no uncertain terms that -my- kid isn't being fed any crap whatsoever in any school.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

Evolution is as much of a religion as Creationism

evolution is not a fact period (let's not go around that mountain again please) and still people all around the world and those on this debate worship the "idea" of evolution so it is a religion.

Evolution and religion are not even similar. Evolution is based on observation and fossil record with mountains of physical evidence supporting it. What physical evidence supports any religion?

Quote

Why is it that our federal lawmakers and supreme court judges with their degrees in law and political science make such a difference between the occult methods of eastern religions, that is taught in our state supported schools, and a simple Christian prayer?

First, eastern religions are not occult. To claim they are shows an ignorance of eastern religions and/or the occult.

Personally, I have never seen any school teach any (non-Christian) religion without also teaching Christianity.

Quote

Do you know that our constitution strictly forbids the sending of pornography in the united states mail? This is strong inference against pornography isn't it?

Could you please link to or quote the passage of the Constitution that prohibits sending pornography in the US mail? I read the Constitution fairly regularly, and IIRC the only crime specifically mentioned is treason. (I won't even go into the First Amendment interpretations.) I could be wrong, however, so a link/quote would be appreciated.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

I do believe that one of the main drives behind evolutionary thinking is not to really find out where we came from, but to prove that there is no god.

That demonstrates a funamental lack of understanding of evolution.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[jakee 1,259]

Quote

Why is it not permitted by Fundies to view Evolution as a tool of God? Perhaps the "Evolutionists" have stumbled upon a process that God uses...

But nooo, the KJV-only sheeple have to take the bible at face value, and refuse to see that the words may be the slightest bit metaphorical...

This is why I have abandoned organized religion.

This brings up an interesting point though - one which I tried to raise earlier with Speedracer but which probably got lost in the deluge.

The writers of Genesis undoubtedly did believe what they wrote. The story of the 6 day creation and Garden of Eden etc would have been an oral tradition many, many generations old by the time it was first committed to paper. The writers did not have knowledge of evolution or cosmology, the intention of Genesis at the time was to lay out how they thought the earth was created, how they had been taught the earth was created.

Now we come to the modern world, people (well, sane people at least) look at Genesis and know that, taken literally, it is wrong. Some go on to say 'well that doesn't matter, we read it as a metaphor for a greater truth'. The problem as I see it is that the authors of Genesis did not intend it to be read that way. That is not the reason they wrote it. So while people may claim to find greater meaning in the work, it is surely a completely subjective greater meaning that goes above and beyond what is actually present, and quite possibly counter to what was intended.

Given that, what is the actual worth of the text when you need to look at it in ways never intended in order to find worth in it?

Criticism of any stage of this train of thought is welcome.



(I'm not too happy with how I've worded the end bit, but it'll do for now.)

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[jakee 1,259]

Quote

Quote

Do you know that our constitution strictly forbids the sending of pornography in the united states mail? This is strong inference against pornography isn't it?

Could you please link to or quote the passage of the Constitution that prohibits sending pornography in the US mail? I read the Constitution fairly regularly, and IIRC the only crime specifically mentioned is treason. (I won't even go into the First Amendment interpretations.) I could be wrong, however, so a link/quote would be appreciated.

And here we find the problems of plagiarism. Skysaint will not be able to support the assertion because he only pretended he was the one that wrote it.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[SpeedRacer 1]

Here is what is written in one of the preceding comments in the New Catholic Study Bible:

"The Scripture does indeed supply legitimate conclusions on religious matters. But those conclusions are not reached easily and are seldom found in one pointed quote. And as for answers to scientific questions, the Bible is not really the place to look for them. The science of the Bible writers was primitive, and it is doubtful God thought to accelerate human knowledge in this field by infusing scientific facts into the mind of the sacred authors. People cannot make of Scripture a weapon to use superficially against all those with whom they wish to disagree (Ibid, p. 1373)"

Says it all, really. And it was written by a (gasp) Christian!!

Speed Racer
--------------------------------------------------

[pajarito 0]

Quote

Just because you don't understand something doesn't mean a supernatural being is responsible.

I understand NDT and believe God is responsible for what we see today.

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

Quote

Evolution is as much of a religion as Creationism

evolution is not a fact period (let's not go around that mountain again please) and still people all around the world and those on this debate worship the "idea" of evolution so it is a religion.

Evolution and religion are not even similar. Evolution is based on observation and fossil record with mountains of physical evidence supporting it.

And yet there are a number of vastly different theories on how life began on this planet. At best, they are educated guesses. Still, people have strongly held beliefs that life undoubtedly began by mere happenstance.... and that there is no way any higher power played a hand in all this.

[pajarito 0]

Quote

] Bad logic, nothing of the sort is implied by the existence of a rock or a planet or a galaxy.

It's bad logic to assume something came from nothing, exploded, and became everything.

Quote

It does nothing of the sort.

Your rebellion against it does not negate its existence.

Quote

Neither would I, which is why I'm an atheist.

Do you possess absolute knowledge of everything? If not, then you should call yourself agnostic.

[steveorino 7]

Quote

Here is what is written in one of the preceding comments in the New Catholic Study Bible:

"The Scripture does indeed supply legitimate conclusions on religious matters. But those conclusions are not reached easily and are seldom found in one pointed quote. And as for answers to scientific questions, the Bible is not really the place to look for them. The science of the Bible writers was primitive, and it is doubtful God thought to accelerate human knowledge in this field by infusing scientific facts into the mind of the sacred authors. People cannot make of Scripture a weapon to use superficially against all those with whom they wish to disagree (Ibid, p. 1373)"

Says it all, really. And it was written by a (gasp) Christian!!

Great response.

steveOrino

[pajarito 0]

Quote

A flower grows from a seed; each one is different, each one is unique, and they are complex too. But their mechanism is to grow from a seed. But we see them growing from seeds, not being created as they are by God. I reject your argument that anything complex must have been created as it was.

Where did the seed come from? The flower before it. So on and so forth until where did matter come from in the first place? Nothing? Is that logical? Even the smallest, simplest thing you can think of is incredibly complex.

Quote

Not that I don't believe in God

I hope so since you call yourself a Christian.

Quote

just that the "something that complicated must have been designed specifically" doesn't really seem to work.

Something that complicated developing by random chance doesn't seem to work.

[pajarito 0]

Quote

Says it all, really. And it was written by a (gasp) Christian!!

Without regarding what was written in your quote, I doubt that person would refer to themselves as a Christian. I'll bet they would refer to themselves as a Catholic. Not meant to be a hit on Catholics out there but what they say or believe isn't always in line with Scripture. It is sometimes only in line with Catholic tradition which they esteem at the same level as scripture (correct me if I'm wrong; I can take it ). Catholics definitely DO NOT represent the standard or the whole of believers.

[jakee 1,259]

Quote

"The Scripture does indeed supply legitimate conclusions on religious matters. But those conclusions are not reached easily and are seldom found in one pointed quote. And as for answers to scientific questions, the Bible is not really the place to look for them. The science of the Bible writers was primitive, and it is doubtful God thought to accelerate human knowledge in this field by infusing scientific facts into the mind of the sacred authors. People cannot make of Scripture a weapon to use superficially against all those with whom they wish to disagree (Ibid, p. 1373)"

So the writer believes that God did not infuse scientific facts into the minds of the OT writers, but that he did infuse religious facts into them. Why the one and not the other?

Did he specifically infuse the idea of the Garden of Eden and 6 day creation into their minds? If so, why? (He would have known it would be taken as literal fact for over 2 millennia) If not, is it any use?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 2,433]

>Evolution is as much of a religion as Creationism

Right. Is gravity a religion? No one knows how it works. Can you jump without a parachute if you believe in the "theory of floating" instead?

Evolution is a science, and thus doesn't care what you believe. If you believe that god created us, fish will still continue to evolve new eyes, new legs and new lungs to cope with their environments. If you believe really, really strongly that we don't have any relationship to primates, your kids may still be born with tails, tails left over from when everyone had them. Science doesn't care what your religion is - it just happens.

>Satan has for instance worked a plan to have evolution-
>religion promoted in your schools etc.when we teach these things in
> our schools we are teaching our children to worship him.

I could as easily claim that Satan is trying to kill our children by making people ignore medical science in place of mythology. "My teacher says evolution doesn't exist, so don't tell me my kid might have MRSA! Such a thing cannot possibly 'evolve!' Methicillin is fine." Result - dead kid. Satan is happy. He has accomplished his goals by using dupes to lie to people about evolution as it applies to medicine.

And that's a lot realer than your example, because dead kids are real, concrete bad things you can point to.

>Evolution and Creationism and all it's theories history etc should be
>free to all...especially to our kids as to give them a fresh clean
>slate..it would only be fair ??

I agree 100%! Teach evolution in science classes and teach the christian (and/or muslim, and/or egyptian, whatever you choose) creation stories in religion class. You won't get any argument from me on that topic.