The God Delusion - Richard Dawkins

[kittikat 0]

Thanks for the suggestions - I'll look them up on Amazon!

I have read several articles on atheism, and Dawkins are by far the most intelligent, well argued ones. The others (I can't remember the authors' names) came off as poorly thought out rants for the most part. I remember I disagreed with (or didn't like) a few of Dawkins points, although like a said it was just a short article, so maybe he explains it better in the book.

It's interesting how atheism seems to be fairly elitist - self-proclaimed elitist.

[Andy9o8 0]

You're not going to want to hear this, but in terms of getting your brother to open his mind (not even change it, just open it), my own life experience (if you're in college, then I'm at least 25 years older than you) is that it's simply a lost cause, especially if he's the "uncurious" type as you describe. I understand and respect why you're trying the approach you are, but I think you're setting yourself up for almost inevitable failure and disappointment. IMO, the best you can do is make it clear to him that religion is a closed subject with you, period -- you won't discuss it, and you don't want to hear it. Period. If he refuses to leave you alone about it, and I expect that's what will happen, then you have to have the strength, as emotionally difficult as it may be, to (a) tell him that until he respects your wishes and gives you your space in this regard, you and he are simply not going to be a part of each other's lives, and (b) mean it, and make it stick.

I'm not trying to sound harsh, and I do wish you luck. I'm speaking not just from the quantity of my life's experience, but also from personal experience. When I was about your age I, too, had close family members with whom I had to lay down the law that way over a similar issue. I gave them a choice: stick to their guns, resulting in me not having anything to do with them anymore, or realize there's a certain line they may not cross with me, and we'd continue having a family relationship. The result: they made the right choice, we haven't discussed the subject in many, many years, and they and I enjoy a good relationship with each other. It can be done.

[Royd 0]

Quote

maybe your wife or mother dies of cancer because she was fed magical herbs that an ancient tribal medicine book said would work.

Or maybe they died from a heart attack or stroke brought on by some new fangled chemical concoction that was supposed to be a cure all.

Quote

How did you know it was true? All of a sudden you were just enlightened with omniscience and the ability to sense truths?

The same way that you believe that there is no god.

BTW, my life is not restricted by the fact that I believe in a god. If I were a liar, thief, or a whoremonger, then I might be bothered.

[Michele 1]

Karen,

Quote

I have to agree with him that there is no reason to tip-toe lightly around religious subjects for fear of offending people.

Does that mean your brother shouldn't pussy-foot around your beliefs?

See, this is where I come across problems. Those who are stridently religious tend to prosyletize. Those who are stridently atheist are equally prosyletic. Why should one side not respect the other's right? Why should one side be closed off?

It seems that you're not willing to accept your brother's belief. Not for yourself, but for him, in his life, and see that it makes him happy. Why is that such a bad thing? Why are you trying to change him? It's not like he was out on the street committing crimes to get $$ for crack...

If what you think is that all folks who are religious have not thought for themselves, do not look at other sources of information, and have given up independent thought and critical thinking...then perhaps you'd like to reconsider that perspective. I think that many, many people who are both religious and spiritual have NOT given up "logic and reason", but in fact find it in places you are not willing to intellectually honestly go.

Could it be that your brother has found something which benefits him, and he's trying to "share" it with you? Could it be he's happy and content, doing his life his way (and not your way), and he's satisfied with the results? Why attempt to take that away from him? Why try to interrupt his life with YOUR perspective and the way you live YOUR life? It really strikes me as one-sided here...you're insistant that he gave up thinking "logically" and that you're the only one who does that in your relationship with him. You're in a battle with your brother that should NOT be occurring...and that you won't win.

So relax. He's not in a cult, he is happy, and he is living the life he's chosen. Would you respect him if he interfered with you being happy and living the life you've chosen? No? Then stop having it be an issue.

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

When I heard the Gospel preached straight forward I knew that it was true.

That is a rather illogical conclusion to draw from that observation.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[karenmeal 0]

Frankly, if my brother hadn't BEGUN the proselytizing, I never would have brought up the issue with him, realizing that we are likely bound to forever disagree. But since the day his preacher gave a sermon about the need to convert people, I can't have a real conversation with my brother for fear that he will bring religion into things. I talk about a hike that I went on that was really beautiful, and he says, "God sure is great, isn't he?" And I respond with something like, "It's amazing what a few billion years and the accumulation of very small changes can accomplish." And it is downhill from there, because he thinks I'm going to hell. I don't EVER attack his beliefs, I always defend mine when talking to him.

Besides the fact that I didn't start this conversion mission and only rebut my brothers attempts, why should I not let my brother know how I lead my life? Maybe you are implying that being an atheist is something that I should hide from my family members.

And actually, atheists do much less proselytizing than you imply. How often have you gone to a football game or something and heard an atheist get on the speaker and mention something about the wonders of evolution? Ummm... never. But how often is a prayer said before something like that, quite often. Also, the fact is, religious folks in this country outnumber atheists about 9:1. So that is a whole lot more proselytizing coming from the religious. Have you ever heard a political candidate thank god or bring religion into his campaign? Sure. All the time. Have you ever heard a political candidate speak about some atheist agenda? Never!

No where did I say that all religious people are people who don't exercise independent, rational thought. I was speaking about my brother. However, I will say that I think that quite a few religious people have never really questioned their belief system in a productive manner and simply do as they are told.

And about the cult comment, here are some definitions of a cult:

-a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. (Haven't you watched those preachers on TV? I'd call them charistmatic.)

-a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies.

At my brothers church he is convinced to donate 10%of his income, which the church then squanders on luxury items and making the church look lavish. (TO be fair I know that some is donated to charities, but a lot is squandered on the building and maintenance of his mega-church.) Is that really necesary? Would Jesus even really like that?

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[Royd 0]

When I heard the Gospel preached straight forward I knew that it was true.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

That is a rather illogical conclusion to draw from that observation.

Why? We are all sinners, i.e. liars, cheaters, thieves, desiring things that belong to others, including their wives or husbands, on and on. Basicallly, we are criminals at heart.

If you ever got paid for 8 hr. of work, and only worked 7 hr. you are a thief, plain and simple.

We generally hire a lawyer to mediate our case for us, partly because he knows the law, and partly because he may find favor with the judge.

Jesus is not only our mediator, he also had enough compassion for us that he was willing to take our punishment upon himself.

If it's true I have gained everything. If not, then what have I really lost? For you, life is only a short 70 or 80 yrs. I'm well on my way to get that far.

[Royd 0]

Quote

, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader. (Haven't you watched those preachers on TV? I'd call them charistmatic.)

Can you say Lenin, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung?

[jcd11235 0]

Quote

When I heard the Gospel preached straight forward I knew that it was true.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote

That is a rather illogical conclusion to draw from that observation.

Why?

Charismatic presentation does not imply correctness.

Math tutoring available. Only $6! per hour! First lesson: Factorials!

[Royd 0]

Quote

At my brothers church he is convinced to donate 10%of his income, which the church then squanders on luxury items and making the church look lavish. (TO be fair I know that some is donated to charities, but a lot is squandered on the building and maintenance of his mega-church.) Is that really necesary? Would Jesus even really like that?

Let's be honest. There's not a charity or non profit organization, religious or secular, that doesn't want to operate without state of the art facilities or equipment.

Since Jesus never existed how can he be part of your argument?

[karenmeal 0]

Why would god require that Jesus die to save you all? Why not just grant forgiveness and save Jesus the torture?

Really, what was the point?

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[karenmeal 0]

I never said that Jesus never existed as a historical figure. He could have been a very misguided man (as to his divineness) with very good ideas on how one should live their life.

So he can remain part of my argument. Would Jesus (who you guys worship) really appreciate the state of money squandering in modern churches?

The answer I'm sure (as someone who was "raised" religious) is a resounding Hell no.

"Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

[lawrocket 3]

Quote

I am constantly subjected to his criticism and abhorrence that I am an atheist.

Quote

I want to encourage my brother to exercise rational independent thought. Frankly I feel that the more people like him in the world, who advocate concepts such as blind faith, the worse the world is in general.

Sounds to me like you equally subject him to critiism and abhorrence.

Plenty of things cannot be rationalized. Romantic love is one. We don't need love to procreate, but we have love. Why?

Yet, we accept it. We embrace it. It is not abhorrent.

I'm not religious, but I leave the religious alone so long as they leave me alone. I respect the religious, too - they've got something greater than themselves to believe in.

Why not be thie bigger person and take the first step of letting your brother live his life the way he wants and be happy for his happiness. Maybe he will reciprocate. If you have a problem with criticims and abhorrence, why are you criticizing and demonstrating abhorrence?

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Michele 1]

Hi, Karen.

Quote

I can't have a real conversation with my brother for fear that he will bring religion into things. I talk about a hike that I went on that was really beautiful, and he says, "God sure is great, isn't he?" And I respond with something like, "It's amazing what a few billion years and the accumulation of very small changes can accomplish."

Why can't you just nod and smile? Since you apparently know it will go downhill from your comment, why make it? You're being just as righteous as he is, and you're pushing your beliefs just as he is. So why engage? Why not just make the comment about how beautiful it is, and let him say whatever, and then go to a topic like..well, cleaning items or something? It takes two to argue...and if you're arguing, then you're the other half, you know? If he thinks you're going to hell, fine. No biggie. You don't think you are, so why not just nod and smile?

Lots of times people argue because they really, really want to be right. Why not just be right in your life, and let him be right in his? Doesn't seem that hard...unless you're trying as hard to convince him of something as he is trying to convince you of it.

Quote

Besides the fact that I didn't start this conversion mission and only rebut my brothers attempts, why should I not let my brother know how I lead my life? Maybe you are implying that being an atheist is something that I should hide from my family members.

Nope, but if you're going to complain about the arguments, and how you're never acknowledged for being "right", then I'd suggest you re-evaluate your need to announce your belief. And yes, I'd say that to someone who was complaining about not being "right" when talking about their religious faith, too. And actually, I have.

Quote

Also, the fact is, religious folks in this country outnumber atheists about 9:1. So that is a whole lot more proselytizing coming from the religious

I hear atheists preaching their belief all the time. *All the time*. No biggie to me...
But just as a comparison, I've spent a lot of time on college campuses in the last few months. I've NOT heard about God, religion or spirituality; rather I've heard a whole hell of a lot about evolution...and the non-existence of God. So I have a different experience than you do, perhaps, but I think that there are equally as vocal atheists as there are religious folk.

So yes, it is my opinion that atheists proselytize as much as do religious people.

Quote

No where did I say that all religious people are people who don't exercise independent, rational thought. I was speaking about my brother. However, I will say that I think that quite a few religious people have never really questioned their belief system in a productive manner and simply do as they are told.

I've found rather the opposite. When I've questioned religious friends about their beliefs, I ask hard questions. I ask them about their times of doubt, their times of no-faith. I ask them about things that are not easy to answer without being honest (in other words, I know if someone isn't telling me the whole truth about something). I ask those questions...and find that most people who have experienced a return to faith, or being new in faith, are some of the most interesting people because of the questions they've asked, the learning they've done, and the journey they've taken. Fascinating people.

And just so you know, my brother is a fundamentalist Christian. He went through a conversion similar to your brother, and it was rather tough on me as the little sister. I endured prayers said for me, conversion lectures, "you're heading for hell", and all that. I know it's tough. What I also know is that my brother was never doing this because he hated me...rather, he was doing it because he loved me, and wanted what he thought was best for me. As my brother matured in his faith, he also matured in his discussions of it. For years I'd get Christian books for Christmas. I'd not read them, because they simply weren't my thought patterns. But I finally understood that my brother was sharing his heart with me the only way he knew...and that made everything tolerable. Just so you know I do understand where you're coming from.

If your brother were to come to you and say "look, little sister, I've been studying this and really believe it's the truth", who are you to reject that gift from him? He's sharing his heart with you. Let him share it. It can't hurt you. It really, really can't. There's nothing it can do that will impact your life. All you need to do is hear him, and acknowledge that for him, his way is correct. And then leave be. You don't need to tell him how right you are. That is arguing. If you want to have a real eyeopener, recognize that all he's doing is trying to love you, to show you love like he knows it. And recognize that for what it is - an incredible thing.

You don't have to convert - or even believe in God! - to accept that your brother loves you. Just listen a little bit.

Quote

-a religion or sect considered to be false, unorthodox, or extremist, with members often living outside of conventional society under the direction of a charismatic leader.

I'm not sure why you believe him and his church to be a cult. My brother's preacher is exceedingly boring...boring as hell, actually. Most preachers are. Look around at the congregation and note how many people are sleeping through the sermon. LOLOL!

How is your brother living outside of conventional society? Is his preacher "charasmatic"? (And I have a little different definition of charasmatic; more along the lines of Jim Jones, David Koresh, et cetera than the average preacher in a "regular" church...).

What is extremist to you? Telling people what he heard in sermon? Telling you that he believes you're going to hell because you don't believe as he does? I'd say you're equally as extremist, if that's the case, because after all, 9:1 believe differently than you do, and therefore you're on the fringe and that's a fairly extremist position to take. Note that I don't necessarily believe that you are extremist...just trying to understand what extremist means to you.

As for it being false, you believe it to be so...but that doesn't mean it is so. Unorthodox? Not at all. Very common, in fact, to be Christian (you said 9:1).

Quote

At my brothers church he is convinced to donate 10%of his income, which the church then squanders on luxury items and making the church look lavish. (TO be fair I know that some is donated to charities, but a lot is squandered on the building and maintenance of his mega-church.) Is that really necesary? Would Jesus even really like that?

I dunno what Jesus was like...I'm old, but not that old!

My brother's church does the same thing. My brother works really hard to provide for his family; he tithes 10% to his church. He's happy to do so, and I have NO right to tell him what to do with his money...just as he has no right to tell me what to do with mine.

So, really. What is your problem with his belief? Why is it such an issue for you two? Why can't you understand where he's coming from, and allow him to be who he is, and happy that way? Is it because he talks to you about it? Is it because you want to be right? I just don't really understand why you want him to accept your lifestyle but you refuse to accept his?

Ciels-
Michele

~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

[Royd 0]

Why would god require that Jesus die to save you all? Why not just grant forgiveness and save Jesus the torture?

Quote

Really, what was the point?

It goes back to the Old Testament system of sacrifices that God set up for the Jewish people to atone for their sins on a daily or yearly basis. The sacrifices could not have any physical flaws. The Bible speaks of a final sacrifice for all mankind, which is Jesus Christ. He had no sin, therefore he was the perfect sacrifice.

If I were to put it in human terms, let's say that you are guilty of a crime. The judge tells you that if you want to go free you must find someone to do your time. So you show up with a fellow criminal and the judge says,"Sorry, he owes a debt for his own crime, find someone who has no crime."That's the only way that the debt could be paid honestly.

If the Scripture is true, Jesus loved all of mankind enough to take their penalty upon himself.

The caveat is that you must believe and accept the sacrifice for your sin. If you refuse, basically, you have spit in the face of perfect, pure love.

[freethefly 6]

Quote

Quote

At my brothers church he is convinced to donate 10%of his income, which the church then squanders on luxury items and making the church look lavish. (TO be fair I know that some is donated to charities, but a lot is squandered on the building and maintenance of his mega-church.) Is that really necesary? Would Jesus even really like that?

Let's be honest. There's not a charity or non profit organization, religious or secular, that doesn't want to operate without state of the art facilities or equipment.

Since Jesus never existed how can he be part of your argument?

Bullshit!!! The AIDS clinic that I sometimes go to gets next to nothing as they are not a "faith based" group. (the infinite wisdom of the Bush admin. thinks that giving more funding to some asswipe church and cut funding to REAL help is the way to battle AIDS). The James river assembly church down here in the baptist belt requires that their members sign contracts and have automatic payments from the bank to the church (got makes sure that the members don't stiff their freaking ass). They run tv commercials throughout the day stating doom unless you become a good baptist zombie and join the flock of brain dead sheep. Their church was once profiled on, I think it was, 60 minutes for a program on multi million dollar churches that do nothing for the community but scam money from the gullible and also get money from the government for their faith based work. These people and people like Billy Graham, John Hagee, Joyce Meyer, ... should all be investigated for the scam that they pull and further more it is pure crap that these scun-nut operations are allowed to be tax free. If there is a god, he don't need no money nor a church with a goddamn tv station inside it.
By the way I was raised southern baptist and believe if there is a hell, every last one of these hypocritical dick jerks are well on their way.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[freethefly 6]

Quote

If I were to put it in human terms, let's say that you are guilty of a crime. The judge tells you that if you want to go free you must find someone to do your time. So you show up with a fellow criminal and the judge says,"Sorry, he owes a debt for his own crime, find someone who has no crime."That's the only way that the debt could be paid honestly.

That is one of the most asinine things I have read on this board or any other board.

Quote

The caveat is that you must believe and accept the sacrifice for your sin. If you refuse, basically, you have spit in the face of perfect, pure love.

There is a lot of non christian so I take it that your god must be mighty wet with spit. Considering that the bible has god killing thousands of people just because he is pissed off at something points to a less than "perfect, pure love".

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[br0k3n 0]

Quote

One Sunday I just deciced to go to a church. I think it was an Assembly of God. When I heard the Gospel preached straight forward I knew that it was true.

How did you know, a warm fuzzy feeling???

Royd, if you take a close look at the gospels, you will realise that it is extremely unlikely that the gospels are true, heres 10 reasons to get you started.

1. No one knows who wrote them.

2. No human being knows when they were written, or where.


3. The Gospel of John is admitted by Christian scholars to be an unhistorical document. They acknowledge that it is not a life of Christ, but an interpretation of him; that it gives us an idealized and spiritualized picture of what Christ is supposed to have been, and that it is largely composed of the speculations of Greek philosophy

4. There is not the smallest fragment of trustworthy evidence to show that any of the Gospels were in existence, in their present form, earlier than a hundred years after the time at which Christ is supposed to have died


5. But while the Gospels were written several generations too late to be of authority, the original documents, such as they were, were not preserved. The Gospels that were written in the second century no longer exist. They have been lost or destroyed. The oldest Gospels that we have are supposed to be copies of copies of copies that were made from those Gospels. We do not know who made these copies; we do not know when they were made; nor do we know whether they were honestly made


6. If Jesus lived, he must have been born. When was he born? Matthew says he was born when Herod was King of Judea. Luke says he was born when Cyrenius was Governor of Syria. He could not have been born during the administration of these tow rulers for Herod died in the year 4 B.C., and Cyrenius, who, in Roman history is Quirinius, did not become Governor of Syria until ten years later.


7. The Encyclopaedia Britannica says: "Christians count one hundred and thirty-three contrary opinions of different authorities concerning the year the Messiah appeared on earth." Think of it -- one hundred and thirty-three different years, each one of which is held to be the year in which Christ came into the world. What magnificent certainty!


8. After his birth, Christ, as it were, vanishes out of existence, and with the exception of a single incident recorded in Luke, we hear absolutely nothing of him until he has reached the age of thirty years.


9. The other Gospels are utterly ignorant of this discussion; and, this single incident excepted, the four Gospels maintain an unbroken silence with regard to thirty years of the life of their hero. What is the meaning of this silence? If the writers of the Gospels knew the facts of the life of Christ, why is it that they tell us absolutely nothing of thirty years of that life? What historical character can be named whose life for thirty years is an absolute blank to the world?


10. A large body of opinion in the early church denied the reality of Christ's physical existence. In his "History of Christianity," Dean Milman writes: "The Gnostic sects denied that Christ was born at all, or that he died," and Mosheim, Germany's great ecclesiastical historian, says: "The Christ of early Christianity was not a human being, but an "appearance," an illusion, a character in miracle, not in reality -- a myth.

-----------------------------------------------------------
--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[Carpediem 0]

It never ceases to amaze me how blindly some can believe.

I think you have to keep an open mind to it all. Maybe one religion did get it right. Possible, but not probable

Anyhow if church helps you in life and times when you're in the dumps right on. That's the good to religion, but badness can come of it too. Yes lives have been "saved" but many have also been destroyed. . .

Thanks for the book recommendation karen, it looks really interesting. I'm going to check it out.

Those who do, can't explain. Those who don't, can't understand.

[billvon 2,478]

>Where did you disagree with Dawkins?

My primary disagreement with him is the narrowness of his argument. He sets up his "opponent" if you will as a personal god, one that created the universe, listens to prayers and, every once in a while, conjures up a miracle or nukes a sinful city. That seems like a bit of a strawman argument. To his credit, he does delve into deists, pantheists and theists, but then dismisses their outlooks for the purposes of his arguments.

As an example, Einstein believed in a god of sorts, although he did not believe in a personal god. Dawkins sort of "recruits" Einstein to his side by claiming that Einstein's arguments are really against any sort of god in any sort of a religion. That seems a bit intellectually dishonest.

[Stumpy 256]

This is the problem with Dawkins - his books The Selfish Gene, The Extended Phenotype and The Blind Watchmaker are very well written and show very clearly and in an easy way to understand why creationism and ID, and more specifically their arguments against evolution are such a load of rubbish, but the message gets lost in the more recent extremist anti god ravings. Shame.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[Squeak 17]

Sounds more like you have a problem with your brother, as a person.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Skyrad 0]

It makes me laugh when atheists talk about 'religious people' and don't even realise that being an atheist isn't just a religion but a belife system of fanatical 'evanglism'. Why can't Atheists just carry on beliving in nothing and let the rest of us get on with our own belifes? Bloody annoying.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[philh 0]

I disagree with your critique of Dawkins. You make a crass generalisation that no christian or religious person holds theose views as if you know them all. Well I cant say it holds for all theologians but it certainly holds for some. I was brought up in an Orthodox jewish enviroment and I would say he exactly represents the nature of faith that I was exposed to.
Dawkins is not ignorant of Chrstian theolgy, he addresses many of the arguments brought up by many chrsitian philosphers. I have read Lee Sobel, Cs Lewis etc and many(although perhaps not all) of the arguments I came across there, were certainly addressed by Dawkins. Whether they were addressed to your satisfaction is another matter.

To say Dawkins has the same fanatisicism as believers is a very bad comparison. The reason is, Dawkins, like many other atheists, doesn't talk of certainty. He doesnt say God definitley doesnt exist, merely that he is highly improbable. Further the lack of the belief of atheist is based upon lack of evdience, if that were to change our beliefs would change. Contrast that to some theists who believe whatever the evidence.

To say that atheism on the Judea Christian god is just as fantaical as belief in it , is to say those that deny Santa Claus, Thor etc are fanatics. That I think is Dawkins main point and a very genuine one. What's the difference?

Bilvon "My primary disagreement with him is the narrowness of his argument. He sets up his "opponent" if you will as a personal god, one that created the universe, listens to prayers and, every once in a while, conjures up a miracle or nukes a sinful city. "
Why is this a straw man? Whilst not all mono theists have this view, it is certainly is a very common one. That's a very good secription of what happens in the bible .With reference to Einstein, Dawkins is clarifying the type of god that he wishes to critique and is making it clear that the type of god that Einstein believed in is not his target, nothing wrong with that.

Skyrad, the reason why (some) atheists wont let people get on with their beliefs is that belief in god is destructive. Look around the world, many of our current problems, the Aids pandemic aided by the roman Catholics chruch opposition to condoms, paradise dreaming suicide bombers, the middle east conflict, the rights of homsexuals etc are at least partially casued by religious belief. When reigious beliefs stop having such adverse consequences then maybe atheists will shut up, until then I think its right to speak up.

[jakee 1,280]

Jesus H Christ woman you are the most condescending poster I have ever read on here (and yes, I have read my own posts)! Has a week ever gone by that you haven't told someone how to live their life?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?