Andy9o8 1 #1 November 27, 2006 http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6185176.stm?dynamic_vote=ON#vote_6187090 Quote Blair 'sorrow' over slave trade Slavery had been 'profoundly shameful', Mr Blair said. Prime Minister Tony Blair has said he feels "deep sorrow" for Britain's role in the slave trade. In an article for the New Nation newspaper, the prime minister said it had been "profoundly shameful". But Mr Blair stopped short of issuing a full apology, which some commentators have demanded. The government is reportedly setting out its plans for next year's bicentenary of the abolition of the slave trade. Esther Stanford, of the Pan African Reparation Coalition, said all countries that had ever been involved in slavery should give a full apology. "An apology is just the start - words mean nothing," she told BBC News. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #2 November 27, 2006 I voted no. Why should we appologise for something that happened before anyone in this country was even born? This is just PC BS at its finest.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #3 November 27, 2006 QuoteI voted no. Why should we appologise for something that happened before anyone in this country was even born? This is just PC BS at its finest. Analogies are always imperfect; nonetheless, there are historical analogies. For example, by the time the US apologized for its internment of Japanese-Americans during WW2, probably at least half of the Americans alive when the apology was issued had not yet been born when the events occurred. Where to draw the line? 20 years? 50? 100? 200? When does "relevant" give way to "obsolete"? FWIW, in February 2006, the Church of England did issue a formal apology: http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4694896.stm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #4 November 27, 2006 People need to realize that blacks were hunting blacks in Africa and selling them to the slave traders. It's not like the slave traders were doing the hunting themselves. What's the responsibility of these hunters in this era? Are they going to apologize?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #5 November 27, 2006 QuotePeople need to realize that blacks were hunting blacks in Africa and selling them to the slave traders. It's not like the slave traders were doing the hunting themselves. What's the responsibility of these hunters in this era? Are they going to apologize? An interesting question; but it doesn't resolve the debate over Britain's role. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wuffo2 0 #6 November 27, 2006 QuotePeople need to realize that blacks were hunting blacks in Africa and selling them to the slave traders. It's not like the slave traders were doing the hunting themselves. What's the responsibility of these hunters in this era? Are they going to apologize?It was/is still a shame. But as someone said it's over. Can't we all just get along now? And the worthless people that just want a free ride over it need to take a hike. I'm not paying for it. Actually I prolly am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vpozzoli 0 #7 November 27, 2006 QuotePeople need to realize that blacks were hunting blacks in Africa and selling them to the slave traders. It's not like the slave traders were doing the hunting themselves. What's the responsibility of these hunters in this era? Are they going to apologize? Are you implying that if they do not apologize than it's OK for Britain to do the same? Kind of like it's OK for the U.S. to torture Iraqis as they would expect the same treatment if the roles where reversed? Cheers, Vale Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #8 November 27, 2006 Quote Are you implying that if they do not apologize than it's OK for Britain to do the same? Who is demanding the apology, and why? It's long gone, and none of us participated in it. So why should we apologize? It's PC bullshit at its worst.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy_Copland 0 #9 November 27, 2006 What do you call a black man flying a plane? A pilot you racist bastard Edit: I voted no too, like you said PC BS at its finest1338 People aint made of nothin' but water and shit. Until morale improves, the beatings will continue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #10 November 27, 2006 QuoteWhen does "relevant" give way to "obsolete"? OK, to re-phrase it, then: after how many years does "relevant" give way to "PC BS at its finest"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Adriandavies 0 #11 November 27, 2006 Who should apologise to who? Should the private businesses or their successors apologise, or should it be relatives of the traders, or the Government, or the guys in Africa who actively cooperated in the trade. Then to whom should they apologise? Why should there be an apology for something which for better or worse was fairly normal practice back then. Aren't we applying modern pronciples to something which happened and was acceptable for the times? Lastly the British Government was amongst the first countries to take active measures to stop the slave trade. That might not have been enough to counter the terrible cost of the trade but at least we tried to bring it to a halt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #12 November 27, 2006 Where to draw the line? 20 years? 50? 100? 200? When does "relevant" give way to "obsolete"? FWIW, in February 2006, the Church of England did issue a formal apology:*** In the case of the internment of the Japanese, many of the victims were still alive, and it was neccessary to allow them some sense of closure to allow them to heal and hopefully move on with thier lives. With slavery there are no former victims still alive, so an apology might be over the top. It should be acknowledged as a shamefull part of the history but a formal apology is not neccessary. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,853 #13 November 27, 2006 "The air of England is too pure for a slave to breathe, and so everyone who breathes it becomes free. Everyone who comes to this island is entitled to the protection of English law, whatever oppression he may have suffered and whatever may be the colour of his skin.", Chief Justice Lord Mansfield, 1772, in declaring slavery illegal.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #14 November 27, 2006 I voted No. Should the Italians have to apologise for the 500 year occupation of Britain by the Romans? No. It has been, gone and would accomplish nothing. CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mr2mk1g 10 #15 November 27, 2006 I physically cannot apologise for something my grandfather did. I didn't do it. He did. If he was around I could bitch at him about how he should apologise because what he did was awful. If he was around he himself could certainly apologise for what he did. He's not around though – he's dead. I can say I think what he did was awful and express my personal sorrow that it happened. But I cannot actually apologise for it, just like I cannot sign cheques for him or take out mortgages for him. Only he can do that. Unfortunately he's dead, so he can't. If I were to take it upon myself to apologise for him it would be nothing but a meaningless platitude serving only to cheapen the whole concept.. (p.s. (for the dense), so far as I'm aware, my granddad did nothing worthy of such an apology... certainly nothing even remotely related to the slave trade before anyone starts whining for me to apologise). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 1 #16 November 27, 2006 I think the issue being debated in your country is not whether individual citizens should feel a personal responsibility and apologize, but whether the British government, as a continuous, incorporeal institution, should do so, based on its actions 200+ years ago? It's like those socratic inquiries that professors like to make in 1st year law school: "Should they apologize if it occurred 10 years ago?" (Uh..yes.) "Ok, then how about 40?" (Mmm...probably.) "OK, then how about 100?" etc., and when the student begins to waver, the prof asks: "Well then where do you draw the line? And why?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #17 November 27, 2006 Personally, I couldn't give a fuck. It is just that, history. If you feel offended, get over it Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #18 November 27, 2006 I voted no. Who's driving this question in Britain?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #19 November 27, 2006 In fact does anyone find it offensive that its even been brought up? I kinda do. It was years ago, why should the current generations apologise for what happened years ago? Who honestly is out there waiting for an apology? What a crock of shit. Either live with it or get the fuck off my island In fact, Mr Blair, you get the fuck off my island you prick. Quote"An apology is just the start - words mean nothing," she told BBC News So what do they want? Reparations? Do one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
orribolollie 0 #20 November 27, 2006 Does anyone even know why this subject has suddenley come up? Fuck if were gonna start apologising for shit we'd better make a big fucking list!!! Did we ever make any apology for the 'Christian' Crusades??? Seems like PC BS to me as has been said. If Tony Blair wants to do something relevant and worthwhile he could do maybe the following; apologise to his voters for taking them to a war based on lies. (You remember, the little lie about weapons of massive destruction). Then maybe we could apologise to the people of countries like Rawanda....'sorry we ignored you guys but you didnt have any oil' Then I think we should apologise to the people of third word countries employed in sweat shops. They ARE slavery, they are still here and WE are still profiting from them. Well, someone is. Smokescreen Bullshit I say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #21 November 27, 2006 NO! - Blair is a complete twat and should get on with sorting out problems and issues of today... appologising for anything that someone else has done is complete PC Bullshite. He SHOULD be saying sorry for the fucking crazy oil-barrons war that he's dragged us into - C*NT (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #22 November 27, 2006 Express regret? Yes. Apologize? No. An analogy: The State of Illinois expressed regret for expelling the Mormons from Nauvoo, but intentionally did not apologize, as the apologizing and its implications could have opened up an avenue for lawsuits.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #23 November 27, 2006 If they apologise we should sue Mr Blair: QuoteHuman Rights Act 1998 Article 7 - NO PUNSIHMENT WITHOUT LAW 1. No one shall be held guilty of any criminal offence on account of any act or omission which did not constitute a criminal offence under national or international law at the time when it was committed. Nor shall a heavier penalty be imposed than the one that was applicable at the time the criminal offence was committed. In short, go fuck yourselves. It wasn't an offence back then and as such expect no kind of apology or repatriations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #24 November 27, 2006 Go fuck myself? I think if you re-read my posting, you'll find us in agreement.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scoop 0 #25 November 27, 2006 Sorry wasn't targetted at you. I just clicked reply to respond to thread Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites