Would a bag lock stand you up ??

[sky-pimp 0]

Just an off shoot from PC in tow thread , who has experiance of a bag lock , and did it stand you up in your harness??

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YeHaaaaaaaaaaa

[tr027 0]

of course not.

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it. " -John Galt from Atlas Shrugged, 1957

[labrys 0]

I don't know the answer from personal experience but I've heard and read that a bag-lock will probably create enough drag to stand you up.

Owned by Remi #?

[mark 104]

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of course not

Fixed it for you.

For body position under a towed pilot chute, watch a tandem video. The tandem pair stays face to earth because the drogue is attached at the jumpers' CG (more or less).

For a bag lock, the attachment is at the shoulders. You tow a bag lock via the risers, after all. Your body rotates so the CG is under the attachment point, into a standing position (more or less). With a bag lock, you could stay belly to earth only if you could fall as slowly as your pilot chute.

There are some aerodynamic issues (CP: Center of Pressure, for example), but they don't affect the gist of what's happening.

Mark

[rushmc 18]

I have had a bag lock. It did NOT stand me up.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[labrys 0]

Wow. Did you find out what caused the bag lock? Were the lines tangled anywhere on your rig?

Owned by Remi #?

[davelepka 4]

It might. It might not. Sucks either way.

Check out the "Breakaway' video if you get a chance. It's got the best footage of all the major mals. They were all intentionally rigged, and ridden for awhile, and the video is from multiple cameras, and awesome.

Seeing it all happen in real time will answer alot of questions and 'what if's'.

I think it also has a section on two-outs, again with great video of intentional two-out scenarios.

[mark 104]

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I have had a bag lock. It did NOT stand me up.

I'll confess I don't understand the physics of this, and I'm prepared to be wrong.

Could you describe the event in more detail, please? For example, what kind of pilot chute, and was there any problem with the pilot chute? Were the lines fully extended and just the locking stows failed to unlock, or were the lines tangled in some way?

Thanks!
Mark

[pilotdave 0]

You can see a great shot of a baglock in the Skyhook video at http://www.relativeworkshop.com/PromoVids.html?Submit=View+Skyhook.

The jumper is somewhere between stood up and on his belly. It's all going to depend on where his new center of pressure ends up in relation to his center of gravity.

Dave

[rushmc 18]

I crossed one line from one stow set to the other. I was using super banz so they did not break.......result, bag lock. My one and only mal

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

I posted some of the detail you are looking for alread. The pilot chute is the one that came from Mirage so nothing out of place there.

Crossed a stow, (caught a previous line loop in the next stow) and I was using super banz so it did not break.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mark 104]

Okay, I watched the RWS video pilotdave pointed to, and I see that a baglock does not generate as much drag as I thought it did.

I was wrong.

My apologies, tr027 & ruschmc.

Mark

[Trae 1]

in reply to who has experiance of a bag lock , and did it stand you up in your harness??
...........................................

Yep ...I've had a couple of bag locks. One with a Paracommander (thick lines through thick bands ) and another that some-one gave to me by doubling my bands.

Neither one stood me up. The overpowering feeling is that it's not slowing you down at all though it does tug at your shoulders a little.

Stability issues for cutaway & reserve deployment are fairly minimal as it's definite where the lines, bag and P/C are ...ie above you.

Don't muck around trying to shake it out or anything stupidly gung-ho...just get rid of it and bang out that reserve.

[billvon 2,435]

>a bag-lock will probably create enough drag to stand you up.

Depends on a great many variables.

Jumper in a tight suit with a large (working) PC, a large main and a bag lock caused by a knot over the top of the bag? Will probably stand you up.

Jumper with a uncocked PC that is just barely tugging on a small canopy in a small bag? Probably will _not_ stand you up. This sort of mal may not even release the riser covers, which means you may not be able to cut it away.

[sky-pimp 0]

?
Jumper with a uncocked PC that is just barely tugging on a small canopy in a small bag? Probably will _not_ stand you up. This sort of mal may not even release the riser covers, which means you may not be able to cut it away. ***

So what would you do it the riser covers did not release on cutaway ?? (apart from shit ya self)

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YeHaaaaaaaaaaa

[skydiverek 58]

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Okay, I watched the RWS video pilotdave pointed to, and I see that a baglock does not generate as much drag as I thought it did. I was wrong.

The airspeed was NOT 120 mph (it was hop-n-pop). Different story then.

[Andy_Copland 0]

I have a video of a bag lock standing someone up. I'll send you the link when skydivingmovies is back up.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[rushmc 18]

thank you for the apology but no isult was taken. Had I not experienced one I believe I would have agreed with you

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[riggerrob 561]

My first bag lock (Cruisielite and 36" pilot chute) did not stand me up.

My second bag lock did stand me up, but most of its drag was provided by a fully-inflated tandem drogue.

[labrys 0]

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Jumper with a uncocked PC that is just barely tugging on a small canopy in a small bag? Probably will _not_ stand you up. This sort of mal may not even release the riser covers, which means you may not be able to cut it away.

What would you do in that situation? Spend time trying to pull the risers free or just deploy the reserve and hope for the best?

Owned by Remi #?

[JohnMitchell 14]

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Okay, I watched the RWS video pilotdave pointed to, and I see that a baglock does not generate as much drag as I thought it did. I was wrong.

The airspeed was NOT 120 mph (it was hop-n-pop). Different story then.

Since baglock forces and body stability are both dependent on airspeed, wouldn't the balance of forces be the same?

[ZigZagMarquis 8]

I was taught early on in my skydiving career to never try to stand-up a bag-lock...

[skydiverek 58]

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Since baglock forces and body stability are both dependent on airspeed, wouldn't the balance of forces be the same?

You might be right...

[billvon 2,435]

>So what would you do it the riser covers did not release on cutaway ??

Try twice to clear it, then open the reserve. Similar to any other horseshoe.

I watched this happen to John Eagle one day at Eloy. Uncocked PC, pulled the pin but did not have sufficient drag to cause deployment or to release the risers when he pulled the cutaway handle. He deployed the reserve; the reserve PC fouled in the trailing main. He grabbed the freebag, tossed it into the wind, and it deployed normally.

[divnswoop 0]

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of course not.

Really? I've seen video of 3 and witnessed one over my head and in all 4 cases the jumper was closer to vertical than horizontal....

...But I've only seen 4 bag locks so..........